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Poll
Question: How many NEW hives are you starting this year???
None - 1 (2.6%)
1 - 4 (10.5%)
2 - 7 (18.4%)
3 - 5 (13.2%)
4 - 4 (10.5%)
5 - 5 (13.2%)
6 - 0 (0%)
7 - 1 (2.6%)
8 - 3 (7.9%)
9 - 0 (0%)
10+ - 8 (21.1%)
Total Voters: 5


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Author Topic: How many new hives are you starting this year???  (Read 22154 times)
Anonymous
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2005, 10:14:53 PM »

I'm not so sure building is cheaper than buying.   What is your time worth?  When Im' working, I fugure my time is conservatively worth 30 per hour.  I can get deeps for 0.9.50, frames for .78. I think you can save money on tops and bottoms.  Otherwise, buy the stuff..get if ready.. and get your bees working.. .this is a race... whether you realize it or not.
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buzz
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2005, 10:36:29 PM »

It would have to be cheaper for a 1000 hive purchase, with the quantity discounts. Just think about it. 1000 hives is 2000 hive bodies. How long would that take you to make?
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Scott
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2005, 10:48:50 PM »

$30 an hour? Is that what you make while watching TV?

 I figure that any time you are existing and not raking in a buck or two, then that is free time. If one is building their own equipment, and save a buck that way, then you just got paid a buck where other wise you would have made nothing playing games on the computer.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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ibeecanadian
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2005, 11:10:43 PM »

id like 10. thats with splits and mail order.

 i agree with jerrymac. money saved is money earned. besides, i make my own hive boddie's and i enjoy it.
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2005, 12:36:14 AM »

Oh I totally agree with Jerry.

Your time is only what you make of it.

I always thought it was silly when people made comments like that (I make such and such an hour, so my time is valuble.) Well sure that would be true if you were actually LOSING that money while doing something like building hive bodies. But generally that's not the case. Usually it's done in your leisure time - and whether you make hives or don't - you're income is not changing. You could be watching tv, working out, playing with the kids, cleaning house, or building hives. So I say this.... would you say the same thing about watching tv, that the time used then is worth $30 an hour?

I love the time I use building hives. It's worth a lot to me because it means less out of pocket cash. So my time works out to be what ever is saved. If I save $10 for 5 hours work it's still worth it. I'm certainly not "making" that kind of money watching tv. Smiley Not only that, but working with wood is a great way to spend leisure time.

Beth
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buzz
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2005, 12:56:56 AM »

If you had the tools and enjoyed making them, then that might be a little cheaper. But, in the time you could make 2000 hive bodies, and probably 2000 supers, you could have done alot of stuff. Does anyone here know how much lumber runs for a hive body?? I would like to know how much cheaper it actually is to build them.
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Scott
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Horns Pure Honey
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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2005, 01:30:33 AM »

I could probly make 20 hives a day or so if I had one more person and worked hard. I already have all the equipment, and enough skill to build them. I will look, If it is cheeper to build my hives and buy my frames I will do it, or cheeper to build my own hives I will spend what I saved on factory frames.
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Ryan Horn
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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2005, 05:20:51 AM »

Quote from: Horns Pure Honey
I could probly make 20 hives a day or so if I had one more person and worked hard. I already have all the equipment, and enough skill to build them. I will look, If it is cheeper to build my hives and buy my frames I will do it, or cheeper to build my own hives I will spend what I saved on factory frames.



Hey! I make you shedule that you have objects!

20 hives = 6 boxes per hive = 120 boxes, 20 bottoms, 40 covers

in 4-5 places to transformed

10 frames per box = 1200 frames

frame sticks worked 5000 pieces.

1200 foundations smelted in

If you work 10 hours, you have 600 minutes.

If you 4 hours to frames and 4 hours to boxes, you have 2 hours left to another things.

It makes  5000   sticks   14400   sec   1 stick/ 3 sec

You have 12 seconds to make frame from board and wires, eylets and  foundation.  (clue not needed either eylets,)

1200 frames  240 minutes = 5 frames per minute from nothing to ready.

 Are you sure that it is  "job of USA citizen". I would give that job to China, Mexico, Malaysia or somewhere cheap work country.  shocked

Estonians make to us our frame stick. Their level of wages is 15% from us.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2005, 06:58:19 AM »

I tried not to do this but I can't help myself.

I spend the next ten years building a house. I average four hours per day. 365.25 days X 10 years = 3652.5 days X 4 hours = 14610 hours X $30. per hour = $438,300 for cost of house. (my time)

Now did I waiste $400,000 dollars worth of my time or did I save $40,000 minus cost of materials?  As it equals to a $40,000+ house.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Anonymous
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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2005, 08:51:51 AM »

Starter kits are just that, a kit to get started with. Most all the beekeeping books say for a colony of bee for the first year you need two deeps (9 5/8") two shallows (6 5/8") plus the veil and smoker just for starting a colony and keeping them one year. A hive tool,frame grip and brush are nice to have but other things can be used with out any problems
If you break the needs down then it is cheaper to put together your own starter kit by slecting the things you want in it. Smiley  I build my own hive bodies. They are not less costly than buying from companies like Kellies, Mann lake or Bushy Mountian. A 1"x12"x8' (You get one deep and have one board left for the second one)at Lowes now sells for about $15.00 give or take a few cents. Buying them from Kellies (I have their catalog on the desk) is $13.00 each if you buy five.
 Smiley I build my own because I like to use my wood working equipment. It is part of the hobby and pride of building it ones self. Also I don't have to lay out $65.00 at a time to build hives.
 shocked  I assembled some of the hive bodies that were bought for our club at $9.00 each. Poor quiality wood with knots that were loose and finger joints that wouldn't line up properly. Also finger joints that I had to rework because the dado wasnt as wide as the fingers that were to go into it. I spent as much time assembling them as I do making mine from scratch.

 Cheesy Al
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NCSteve
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2005, 08:53:39 AM »

My friend and I are building 8 complete hives, top to bottom.

 Now we're contractors. We each have a shop with tools, his is bigger.  huh
 We've been building homes for 20 years so our skill level is a lil above average.  wink
 

 
Quote
If you had the tools and enjoyed making them, then that might be a little cheaper. But, in the time you could make 2000 hive bodies, and probably 2000 supers, you could have done alot of stuff. Does anyone here know how much lumber runs for a hive body?? I would like to know how much cheaper it actually is to build them.


 Its cost us $0 to build besides nails/staples/ and some electricity.
 And keep in mind anyone can go to a construction site and get scrap plywood and dimensional lumber. Most carpenters dont care a bit as long as you ask them what they dont need/want. Get your wives to ask if you arent a girl. We cant say no to girls. We had a older lady bring us cookies one day to trade for some scrap. We loaded her poor car down.  shocked

 As far as how much my time costs... It doesnt. If it doesnt take away from my job, why count it? And do what other stuff? Play Xbox? Watch TV? Its winter. Its freakin cold.


 
Quote
 I could probly make 20 hives a day or so if I had one more person and worked hard. I already have all the equipment, and enough skill to build them. I will look, If it is cheeper to build my hives and buy my frames I will do it, or cheeper to build my own hives I will spend what I saved on factory frames.


 Complete hives? Not a chance. Hive bodies, maybe. Im not one to pee in another mans wheaties, but thats a statement I couldnt let slip by.
 Id say to make 4 of each part to get a feeling for the time itll take. If you have to buy the material it wont be that big a pile and youll get an idea of tool setups, and how many different steps it takes per piece.
 And dont worry about the hive bodies. Theyre a snap. As soon as you get your jig set up for dovetails or your router with a rabbeting bit, its done.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2005, 08:58:19 AM »

I might also add that there is more to managing 1000 hives than just saying it. How are you gong to harvest the honey? Where are you putting all those colonies, they can't all go in one spot??? How are you going to transport all the equipment and extra bodies and frame you'll need?
It's nice to have a dream/goal but is better to set them with in reason, and a time line for each step.
 Cheesy Al
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amymcg
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2005, 09:09:43 AM »

I know you guys are giving Ryan alot to think about in how to manage the colonies and how to get his equipment, but be careful not to be dream stealers.

Ryan has quite an ambitious dream, and only he can make it happen or not.  If this is what he really wants to do, then I am quite confident he will. Sure, he will make mistakes along the way, like all of us do in any of our endeavours. He might do well right away, or he might struggle, but he has help, and will stick to it.
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NCSteve
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2005, 09:12:14 AM »

Quote
A 1"x12"x8' (You get one deep and have one board left for the second one)at Lowes now sells for about $15.00 give or take a few cents.


 Geebus. A 1x12 white pine/spruce here is $1 per foot. So it really comes down to where you live and what your lumber prices are. And you are right, You always know the quality of what your getting when you make them yourself.
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Finman
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2005, 09:23:09 AM »

When I saterd, I remember when it took me one day to make 24 super boxes, not hives or frames for boxes. And I worked 16 hours per day.

I use  polystyrenic hives for 15 years.  They are light to handle. My sigle wooden boxes are 40 years old. You use sigle whole wood boxes, but thy are heavy,  and during winter they consumes food more than insulated box.

I transport them from my yard during summer , and I perhaps change the honey place twice during summer.  In the middle of summer hives weight about 200 lbs per piece and I just split them for transportation, that I am able to move them. I do job alone. 3 polystyre box drop the total weight about 60 lbs per hive.

When I started to use  polystyrenic  boxes I found that spring development was so fast that hive brought the cost back during first year. Bees were earlier ready to collect honey.  

So you see, it is not merely self made question.

I use self made wooden floor and self made covers. They are easy to make and strong in use.

35 years ago I made my own frame parts. Now it is enough that I put them together. It doest not taste "hobby". If you make one hive, you must put together 60 frames, to wire them and put foundantions. After 40 years it is not nice hobby any more. Just obligatore job.

Every year I must have new box of foundations for every hive. They hinder swarming when you give them to hive during first honey flow.

I have now too many hives. I tried to dimish then at autumn, but I failed.  New nucs were to big to put together.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2005, 09:24:24 AM »

Inventors are dreamers. Just look at what we have because of all those dreamers of the past.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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NCSteve
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2005, 09:57:48 AM »

Quote
I know you guys are giving Ryan alot to think about in how to manage the colonies and how to get his equipment, but be careful not to be dream stealers.


 Ryan should know most of us are old and married so our dreams have already been crushed to dust. wink  
 
 But he should realize the truth too. I think the best service any of the older people can give him is to share our experience with him so he can make solid decisions and plan well.

 No ones telling him or anyone else they cant have 1000 hives. Theyre just saying it will probably take longer then he realizes. I hope he gets 2000, I just dont want him to become jaded when it doesnt happen as quickly as he wants.

 Dreams are called dreams for a reason. A solid business plan is what he needs.

 We plan on having quite a few hives also. Why only start with the 4-8 if we could have gotten more our first year? Because its a new venture.
 And Ive learned to keep all new ventures out of my wallet as much as possible.
 That way when the bees attack and kill me my wifes not broke.  cheesy
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Finman
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2005, 10:10:06 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
Inventors are dreamers. Just look at what we have because of all those dreamers of the past.


What are you talking?  I am near 58 and I have dreams.

I change hobby when I learn a one. Now my dearest hobby is stock investing.

I have changed my real job four times.

If you mathematics does not work, it is not dreaming  Cheesy

Every summer when I go to my summer cottage,  I have plans 10 times more I can execute.  But it is  my free time place, not free time prison or exhibition of my lacking dreams.  I prefere to jump into car and I go watching woodlands.

In Soviet Union Moscow they had " The Exhibition of National Achievements". I visited there year 1975.  There was a statue of " Hero of Sosialim Work". It was a statue of bull, which have mated with 1648 cows ( I do not remember real figures) . Now the place is flea market.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2005, 11:10:22 AM »

My comment about dreams was more in reply to what  amymcg wrote. Sorry it landed below your post and caused confusion.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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buzz
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2005, 11:53:38 AM »

Quote from: amymcg
I know you guys are giving Ryan alot to think about in how to manage the colonies and how to get his equipment, but be careful not to be dream stealers.


I'm not trying to be a dream stealer, I just know that there is more to having 1000 hives than I think he realizes. How does he plan to extract 20,000 frames? How does he plan to uncap all of them?
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Scott
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"If you have no money and you have few possessions, if you have a dog you are still rich"
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"Forgiveness is easier to get than permission"
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