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Author Topic: fondant  (Read 2939 times)
danno
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« on: November 12, 2008, 08:26:54 AM »

Is all fondant created equil?  I have read several threads on candy and even listing a couple of suppliers that people here use.  I have 2 doenut shops here and have been getting buckets from them for next year.  There white frosting buckets have all the ingredients listed, some that I have never heard of.  I want to get a few 5 gal buckets and it would be far easier just to buy it rather than make it.  This is the recipe that I have.   
Fondant Bee Candy

> 4 parts (by volume) white sugar
> 4 parts (by volume) 2:1 Syrup or HFCS
> 3 parts (by volume) water

Boil water and slowly add the syrup and sugar until dissolved. Continue heating until the mixture reaches 238°F (114°C). Without mixing allow the solution to cool until it is slightly warm to the touch. Then begin to mix and aerate the solution. As you do this the color should lighten. Pour into shallow dishes or mold and save for later use. I prefer to make the fondant thin enough to where I can work it into an empty frame of drawn comb.
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Robo
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 09:57:27 AM »

Are you assuming white frosting is fondant?
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BjornBee
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 10:50:32 AM »

Fondant is a term used to describe many products, all in regards to a sugar based item used in cakes etc. I've had this discussion with a couple bakers before, and they seemed to have a different opinion and definition.

"Pure" Fondant as I know it has two or thee ingredients. Sugar, HFCS, and with or without water added. That's it.
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 09:59:22 PM »

I am going into my first winter with my hives.  I have read everything on how much they should weigh, and discussions of heavy versus light, but these are all terribly confusing as I have no frame of reference in judging the relative weighs.  Is putting fondant in an empty super over the inner cover a good insurance policy?  Is there any reason not to do it for a hobbiest with only three hives.  I can see where a large commercial beekeeping or a hobbiest with tens of hives may have cost and effort concerns. 
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 08:37:28 AM »

I am going into my first winter with my hives.  I have read everything on how much they should weigh, and discussions of heavy versus light, but these are all terribly confusing as I have no frame of reference in judging the relative weighs.  Is putting fondant in an empty super over the inner cover a good insurance policy?  Is there any reason not to do it for a hobbiest with only three hives.  I can see where a large commercial beekeeping or a hobbiest with tens of hives may have cost and effort concerns. 


Providing some type of dry feed on the top is good insurance if you are not sure.   You can also watch the top of the box and see where the cluster is.  If they are not at the top, chances are they have food yet to consume.  The key is to make sure there is no empty space left between stores as they can isolate the the cluster for stores and starve.   Dry sugar, fondant, or candy will all work.   I like the candy in this case, because any left in the spring can easily be stored for the next winter.  Depending on the severity of your winter, getting the feed as close as possible to the top of the frames makes it easier for the cluster to access it when the weather is bad.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/emergency-feeding/
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 01:12:11 PM »

In our area, we get warm days followed by severe cold in January and february. As such, the bees will sometimes start raising brood. This takes a lot of food. So feeding some fondant or sigar board is a great insurance policy. If they need it, they take it. If not, i freeze whats left over.

I am contemplating making some sugar baords for late spring and place pollen or substitutte in the middle for those early brood. Any thoughts on this gang?Huh??
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danno
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 02:03:59 PM »

I asked Rob in a personal message if anyone has tried adding Honey Bee Healthy to the candy.  He stated just as I thought that it would probably volitize at the high temps and said he had been asked this before but hadn't heard if anyone actually tried it.   I'm going to give it a try but wondered if anyone else had
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 04:26:03 PM »

I am contemplating making some sugar baords for late spring and place pollen or substitutte in the middle for those early brood. Any thoughts on this gang?Huh??


I've used frozen fresh pollen in candy before and it tends to draw moisture and get very runny if not distributed evenly.   This year I made some sugar frames with a combination of fresh pollen and dry substitute.  Don't have any feedback get,  but the powder is much easier to distribute through the candy.   You can see some of the pollen in one of the candy frame pictures -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/emergency-feeding/
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 08:53:05 PM »

I was thinking of pouring jhalf into a mold, letting it cool, add powder on top and cover w/ warm sugar syrup was my thinking. I too was worried about destroying the pollen w/ heat so was thinking substitute would be better. I guess we all have a homework project for the winter!
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 09:02:58 PM »

I was thinking of pouring jhalf into a mold, letting it cool, add powder on top and cover w/ warm sugar syrup was my thinking.

That's how I did it,  but the powder gets mixed into the 2nd half of the syrup when you pour it because it is still very hot and bubbling.  So then I just ended up putting the powder in the bottom of the mold and pouring all the syrup in at once.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 10:31:20 PM »

Fondant is a term used to describe many products, all in regards to a sugar based item used in cakes etc. I've had this discussion with a couple bakers before, and they seemed to have a different opinion and definition.

"Pure" Fondant as I know it has two or thee ingredients. Sugar, HFCS, and with or without water added. That's it.
the best fondant is made with C&H drivert sugar(c&h patent)-drivert sugar is made with 8% invert sugar-Drivert sugar is the best for bees and is more than bakers sugar-can be feed dry and will be taken easier than table sugar-Dadant carries drivert (atleast in my area) the recipe on the bag for fondant just calls for water-this is from a beekeepers point of view cheesy   cool RDY-B
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reinbeau
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 06:07:06 PM »

You don't use high fructose corn syrup, you use just plain old corn syrup - Karo syrup, the kind your grandmother used.  HFCS is no good for us - so why would you feed it to bees?  huh
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 03:27:22 PM »

You don't use high fructose corn syrup, you use just plain old corn syrup - Karo syrup, the kind your grandmother used.  HFCS is no good for us - so why would you feed it to bees?  huh

I was told you shouldn't use Karo- I am also aware some people believe HFCS is bad for bees. I use HFCS 55, a specific type of HFSC and have had no adverse effects from it.

I am uncertain that because something is bad for humans, it is therefore bad for bees or vice versa. Bees have unique needs from humans.

I apologize if this is confusing to a newbie, all this disagreement amongst beeks. I feed my bees HFCS b/c its easier. I have had no adverse effects so far. If I did, I would definately stop feeding HFCS. No lost hives. In our area we need more stores that  even places that are colder for longer periods of time. My bees will fly and raise brood in february, than have snow 12 hrs later. this yo-yoing creates huge demands on food resources. I doubt my bees would survive w/o this extra food, including sugar boards placed in february and HFSC in fall. I cant keep up w/ making sugar syrup in the fall. They can go through 15 gallons a day of syrup, compared to about 4 gallons of HFCS for 15 hives.
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jaypee
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 08:33:35 PM »

> They can go through 15 gallons a day of syrup,
> compared to about 4 gallons of HFCS for 15 hives.

The implication here is that HFCS has almost 4X the nutritional content of 2:1 syrup.

I am at a loss to understand how 4 gallons of HFCS/day can sustain your hives if they need 15 gallons of syrup/day.

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KONASDAD
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 09:20:11 PM »

> They can go through 15 gallons a day of syrup,
> compared to about 4 gallons of HFCS for 15 hives.

The implication here is that HFCS has almost 4X the nutritional content of 2:1 syrup.

I am at a loss to understand how 4 gallons of HFCS/day can sustain your hives if they need 15 gallons of syrup/day.



Syrup has more water. Therefore the bees need more of it, reduce the water content then cap like honey. Once capped, its the same as HFCS. HFCS is thicker so the bees need less of it as it can be capped much more quickly. Making syrup as thick as HFCS just takes too long for as many hives i have now.

I dont really think its nutritonal in the sense you are speaking. It has 4x's the sugar than syrup. Bees also nee pollen bee bread etc. Its just one nutritional element is sugar syrup.

Its not a daily ration either. Its stored for winter use. They consume/transfer it in a day and then put in cells reduce water content below 18% and cap for later use is my understanding.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 08:04:33 AM »

Konasdad, I have no idea why anyone said not to use Karo, it works just fine and it's what my fellow beeks use around here.  HFCS is pushed by the corn industry as being the best thing on the planet, it is anything but.  For me there's no confusion other than that created by the industry pushing product with no regard for its ultimate safety. 
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rdy-b
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 08:54:44 PM »

You don't use high fructose corn syrup, you use just plain old corn syrup - Karo syrup, the kind your grandmother used.  HFCS is no good for us - so why would you feed it to bees?  huh

I was told you shouldn't use Karo- I am also aware some people believe HFCS is bad for bees. I use HFCS 55, a specific type of HFSC and have had no adverse effects from it.

I am uncertain that because something is bad for humans, it is therefore bad for bees or vice versa. Bees have unique needs from humans.

I apologize if this is confusing to a newbie, all this disagreement amongst beeks. I feed my bees HFCS b/c its easier. I have had no adverse effects so far. If I did, I would definately stop feeding HFCS. No lost hives. In our area we need more stores that  even places that are colder for longer periods of time. My bees will fly and raise brood in february, than have snow 12 hrs later. this yo-yoing creates huge demands on food resources. I doubt my bees would survive w/o this extra food, including sugar boards placed in february and HFSC in fall. I cant keep up w/ making sugar syrup in the fall. They can go through 15 gallons a day of syrup, compared to about 4 gallons of HFCS for 15 hives.
   YES NOT ALL HFCS are created equal HFC 55 contains 55% solids in its liquid state that means it is supersaturated-like honey-they make many blends -I think if you are having good results with the HFCS-your results would be even better if you feed liquid sucrose-that also comes in many blends -winter feed requires-55-65 % solids  Wink RDY-B
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