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Author Topic: WRITTEN BY A 15 yr. Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA : New Pledge of Allegiance  (Read 12220 times)
Jerrymac
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« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2010, 06:02:14 PM »

I never said I was a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, or anything at all. I do believe in freedom. And if the first amendment says there shall be no law against religious actions then it doesn't matter if you are a government worker or not. One has the freedom to practice their religion as they see fit.

A religious person has a supreme being they have to answer to. If He says pray at a certain time then one must do it. If he says give thanks for all things then one must do it. If you don't want to watch or listen to the man on the floor facing east then make that important phone call you need to make before the class starts.
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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2010, 09:20:42 PM »

And another slander if I'm reading you right.  Equating atheism/humanism to Nazis and Communists if I'm reading you right.  For something to be causal it must both be required for and sufficient to justify actions.  Lacking a belief in the Christian god is neither required for dictatorship/genocide, nor sufficient to justify it.  Sure it's compatible, but so is Judaism/Christianity (divine right monarchies / genocide in the Old Testament like Jericho).

There has never been a society led by Humanists, so your accusation that it ends terribly is false.  However, the Enlightenment and our Founding Fathers were the foundation of modern Humanism, so secular American governance is the closest thing we have seen.  Learn what Humanists are before you start making assumptions about what we do or don't believe, or what actions are or are not consistent with our philosophy.

And with that, I'm done with your bigotry  kathyp.

Have a good life everyone, be good for the sake of goodness.


As Kathyp a bigotry Huh

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:47:17 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2010, 09:28:07 PM »

There's an old saying that begins something like: Don't let the door hit..............
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2010, 09:34:25 PM »

Watch out!!! iddee's fixin' to whip out a jihad!

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2010, 09:37:12 PM »

I kinda forget my sig line when they jump on miss Kathy. Just can't help it.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2010, 10:14:23 PM »

 Sad  i don't want to be responsible for bad things.  i already got some salty language out of my system on ventrilo and the boys were good about not seeming shocked  evil

i'm thinking i need to take that yoga class that my friend has been trying to talk me into.  maybe when i go south Annette can give me some red umbrella lessons....she seems very mellow....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2010, 12:25:53 AM »

Greenbee:

Tell you what, 8 posts and there's not hardly a person here doesn't want to see you tossed out the forum door, including me. You call us a Christian group who enjoys bashing anyone else with differing beliefs, you state you tested the waters to see how "pro-Christian" this group was prior to joining - that alone is premeditated, you toss the word "libelous" around like it has come out your mouth way too many times in your life, and you call a member a bigot because she differs from your beliefs. Some impression you have left in your short time here - seems you didn't do your home work on one person though... me. I don't take this crap and I make sure you and everyone who reads your posts understand that.

I want you to understand something right now and try to wrap your brain around this: you have NO RIGHTS in this forum, you only have privileges here. If you don't think that is true, read the USER AGREEMENT you checked when you signed up. Your posts can be edited or removed by the forum mod staff at will and for any reason, and you will disappear like a puff of smoke from the forum member list whenever we choose to do so.

Never have I seen the first 8 posts from a new member which would take up 15 printed pages if we chose to put your ramblings on to paper. As Iddee said, don't let the forum door hit you in the a$$, gladly you can go elsewhere, or back from where you currently reside. You won't be missed.

I'm telling you now, arguing points through debate is fine, arguing and stamping people as bigots is way out of line, and don't get semantic with me and say "I said her bigoted ways not that she is a bigot". We read what you said and understood what you meant.

There are members of all faiths here, any of them are welcome to express opinions from their religious stand point, non believers often chime in too, but not at the expense of bashing someone's faith. We have Liberal, Progressives, Conservatives and Tea Party'ers, living harmoniously. The number one rule here is to respect others and agree to disagree, it is not to "micro-quote" members and trash them for their opinions, not sure where you get that from, but leave it there.

Don't tell us you "screened us" by "testing the waters" to see if the forum is GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU, you place yourself way too high on the totem poll and need a reality check. Get back to Earth, debate issues all you wish, but don't attack any member's views in doing so. If I see or receive one more complaint concerning you, your membership will be delete immediately - and I'll gladly explain to the membership why you are gone and "whether they agree or not", our members know that decisions are made for the betterment of the forum.

I'm afraid it is a matter of WHEN you are going to see the door, not if - so you may just want to choose the "delete YOUR membership" tab in your profile area - I'll gladly allow it and undoubtedly sure it would be seconded by many members who you already have left a bad taste in their mouths.

You seem quite intelligent, although your approach is crass, you come in like a broken piece of glass hidden just under the play-box sand. So you've pretty well already said your goodbyes, at least to Kathy, we'll all accept those same goodbyes as a group message and you can feel free to just leave.

I'm not getting rid of you, I just need you to understand now that your attitude needs changing and will not be tolerated here. There are plenty of places where you can go (I'm sure you belong to most of them already) but what you think you bring to this forum may be fair and balanced ideas to you, to the majority of us it is packaged as a flaming bag of crap on the front step, and we are not foolish enough to stomp it out.

The Mods will just make you disappear from the member list and go about how we have for almost 8 years here - debative issues written with interest and fairness is the norm here, and few people have ever use the word libelous in the forum: search for it and see - that alone should tell you that you are not the type of member that lasts here.

It's really a moot issue, but you are officially warned for breaking members bi-laws - if you haven't read them, then you must have missed the 5 times they appear throughout the forum while you were screening us. There is NEVER a second warning though, understand that. Just clean up your act and if you are here for beekeeping reasons, find a different forum than the Coffeehouse, unless you learn to behave - passion is fine, being crude is not. If your presence here is just to fulfill your preconceive thoughts of our "non-Christian bashing forum" - then get the Hell out.

When someone acts like an Ahole here, they get treated like one.
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ronwhite3030
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« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2010, 02:33:15 AM »

All i can say is i have to applaud green bee, being that its his first day on the forums and having the balls to enter this discussion and being so articulate in your posts. Way to dive in head first.
-Ron


I don't think he got my sarcasm of being an A+ A-Hole right from the start.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2010, 04:41:24 AM »

Thanks Jim for demonstrating my point about how there are different versions of the Ten Commandments.  If anyone is interested in more info on this there's a page on About.com, search "Different Versions of the Ten Commandments" and it's the top article (sorry, can't give links yet).

 I did not know (About.com) is a version of the Bible.  huh



                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 05:16:29 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2010, 07:52:48 AM »

more 'exclusion' behavior...  seems to me some folks are addicted to a monologue and cannot tolerate a conversation???

humm seems to fit the profile.

snip...
For something to be causal it must both be required for and sufficient to justify actions.

tecumseh:
I might guess (based on my own profiling) this went right over some folks head?
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2010, 09:15:34 AM »

Hello ronwhite3030

You are not "THE" Ron White are you?
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« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2010, 09:16:04 AM »

boss can i swap?  you have a way with words, loved the last few lines
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« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2010, 09:42:55 AM »

Amen.
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« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2010, 09:46:58 AM »

Quote
more 'exclusion' behavior...  seems to me some folks are addicted to a monologue and cannot tolerate a conversation???


no one here, least of all I, would want anyone excluded from conversations.  there's no debate unless you have opposing ideas.  he, like you, has a problem with civility.  he also seems to have a thin skin.  since we seem to be into old sayings, there is that one about  the kitchen and the heat.

i don't believe anyone was unkind or directed any derogatory remarks toward him personally, yet he chose to take it that way.  i don't own his thin skin any  more than i own your arrogance.  

it is interesting that the  name calling, arrogance, and thin skins, seem so common on the left.  maybe someone should do a study.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2010, 10:40:40 AM »

it is interesting that the  name calling, arrogance, and thin skins, seem so common on the left.  maybe someone should do a study.....

Isn't it too late to study this, the right is in charge of the money again  cheer Then again, the left wouldn't study themselves, the problems never the Left and if there was, they'd build a department for it first, appoint a director, increase taxes to pay for it, then do a study about the Right and use the data in 2012..

I hope Greenbee didn't take anything I said too personal Kathy, just telling it like it is. I look for certain actions by members when broght to the table for a talkin' and their response is usually interesting. I surely wasn't coming to anyone's rescue - especially yours: saying you need rescueing is like saying a pitbull needs a stronger jaw.

I'm still deciphering tecumseh's post, I try not to follow him and then he posts some new riddle of word-wastage, I swear that's why forums tend to NOT have a self destruct button - mods would use them too often - lol.

I now return the Television to you, you can adjust the vertical and the horizontal, focus out to a blur or in to crystal clarity... wait... wrong show!!! Back to the bat cave Robin! there, much cozier Smiley
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ronwhite3030
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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2010, 10:58:15 AM »

No Jerry different one
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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2010, 11:06:51 AM »

Personally, for a long time I've found it pretty weird that Christians, as in followers of Jesus Christ, uphold or follow the ten commandments at all... It's to my understanding that Jesus pretty much tossed the old testament rules in favor of just two rules in the new testament. I don't get why followers of Jesus disregard his words and keep following the old testament stuff.
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« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2010, 11:39:39 AM »

Quote
Personally, for a long time I've found it pretty weird that Christians, as in followers of Jesus Christ, uphold or follow the ten commandments at all... It's to my understanding that Jesus pretty much tossed the old testament rules in favor of just two rules in the new testament. I don't get why followers of Jesus disregard his words and keep following the old testament stuff.


i'm not sure your evaluation is accurate.

1.You shall have no other gods before me.
 
2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
 
3.You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
 
4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
5.Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
 
6.You shall not murder.
 
7.You shall not commit adultery.
 
8.You shall not steal.
 
9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
 
10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”


the first three are directed at the Jews.  even so, they would apply to any monotheistic religion.  the next are directed toward a cohesive society.  they would apply to anyone.  the coming of the messiah, whether you believe it has happened or will happen, does not negate the 10 commandments.  the sacrifice of Christ replaces the temple ceremonies of sacrifice and many of the personal directive to the Jews meant for their pre-messiah salvation.

judeo-christian or not, most of the 10 are what we would want in society if we want to live in peace.  as pointed out earlier, other religions have similar "commandments".  blood sacrifice is also a pretty consistent theme throughout all history and societies.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2010, 12:29:45 PM »

I surely wasn't coming to anyone's rescue - especially yours: saying you need rescueing is like saying a pitbull needs a stronger jaw.

Ha ha! Love that line, especially when applied to our favorite pitbull!! Kiss

Anybody that registers and immediately jumps into a contentious coffee house discussion and only posts there IS NOT HERE FOR BEEKEEPING!!!!  I guess I assumed that it is a coffee house where beeks can kick around ideas, not have somebody with an obvious chip on their shoulder try to dominate the discussion.  But hey, I've been wrong before.

And before you knock the 10th commandment without understanding, it pretty much is the most important one...as Jesus said, if you so much as THINK about committing adultery, you've done it, and that applies to every other commandment.  None of the other commandments would be necessary if we didn't covet, and if we can control that one, then we won't break the others either.  It is a religious/mental commandment, and I've not done any study on that in particular, but I don't think that there were any old testament civil punishments for breaking that commandment as there were for breaking the other commandments.
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« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2010, 01:20:18 PM »

I wonder if I can comment without stirring the pot, but here it goes. I am an atheist, i've never relied on a belief in a deity for my moral compass, but I've never killed anyone, never taken drugs, I don't lie, cheat, or steal, commit adultery or any of the other things that some people claim I would do if I don't believe in god. therefore the theory that a lack of religion is to blame for all of societies woes has a hole in it. I've always believed in " live and let live" you do your thing and i'll do mine. as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights, have at it. but parents are too busy working for their feudal lords, oops i mean government, to pay ridiculous amounts in taxes to compensate for elected officials with frivolous spending practices. too busy to teach thier children right from wrong, respect for others, and the list goes on. instead they rely on either church, school, or both to do their teaching for them.

the problem is, as i see it, that both sides of the arguement take the " give them an inch and they'll take a mile" mentality which leads both sides to the extremes. suddenly  not forcing anyone to pray in schools becomes nobody can pray in schools under any circumstance, but this also violates the rights of those who wish to pray. there is an often forgotten part of the 1st ammendment that is usually never taken into consideration in my opinion. "congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free excersize thereof " that last little bit is supposed to guarranty the rights of those who choose to pray in schools but seems that it is often overlooked. why is it acceptable to read a bible or pray in a prison, but not in a school ? seems a little silly doesn't it ?

I have never been bothered by anyone praying in my presence, because i don't concern myself with it, i've always stood silently respecting others beliefs/customs, although i don't like people trying to preach to me or judge me ( i thought they weren't supposed to do this ) based on their beliefs. i've never tried to force atheism down anyone's throat and would like the same respect in return. the problem is that our society has become so sue-happy that everyone is now walking on eggshells. people can be fired or sued or both for speaking their point of view ( so much for freedom of speech ). we need to get rid of all the politicians  lawyers and judges that are destroying the rights of everyone or it will only continue to drag our country down the sewer, but we also need thicker skin. I can't believe that people are so easily offended by what someone else is doing. if it's not your, thing don't participate.  otherwise wonderful traditions like a christmas party become the annual non-offensive, non-denominational holiday celebration. no nativity scene, no santa claus, maybe not even a christmas tree.  pretty sad if you ask me.
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