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Author Topic: WRITTEN BY A 15 yr. Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA : New Pledge of Allegiance  (Read 12698 times)
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« on: November 07, 2008, 09:52:38 PM »

WRITTEN BY A 15 yr. Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA :

New Pledge of Allegiance (TOTALLY AWESOME) !

Since the Pledge of Allegiance
And
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore
Because the word 'God' is mentioned....
A kid in Arizona wrote the attached


NEW School prayer :


Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

If you aren't ashamed to do this,
Please pass this on.
Jesus said,
'If you are ashamed of me,
I will be ashamed of you before my Father.'


Not ashamed. Pass this on
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Professionals built the Titanic
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 10:49:59 PM »

Oh, that is great! J
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 11:39:02 PM »

gotta love it!!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 12:41:50 AM »

That should be sent to every acadamian and politician in these United States.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 10:21:52 AM »

This kid get's an A++++ from me.
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2008, 06:04:25 PM »

   The reason that it is not allowed is to protect our freedom to be different. What if some other religion/beleif system besides your own was being pledged to here? You wouldn't want your children to be forced to participate in that. So isn't it better that no beleif system is promoted in the schools than to dicriminate against those who are not part of the main stream?

    Isn't it better for children to be guided by their parents rather than the schools or the government when it comes to religion and spirituality? Isn't this the job of the parent, to instill a sense of morality and respect, and to teach children and young adults the difference from right and wrong?

Alfred
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 06:53:27 PM »

alfred, that is the argument and it is crap.

schools do teach other belief systems.  islam is all the rage now. after all, we must understand other and respect them, right?  everyone but christians.  if you are christian, your beliefs are not allowed.

i don't know if you have walked into a public school lately, but they are hell holes.  kids don't respect teachers.  they don't respect each other. they don't respect themselves.  drugs, alcohol, and sexual promiscuity are rampant.  this is true even in the better neighborhoods. 

parent are busy working two jobs so that the kids can have PS3s, cell phones, and cool clothes.  they consider "quality time" to be that time between 6 and 9 pm spent watching TV with the kids before bed.  weekends are a rush to do all that needs to be done before the cycle starts again on monday.

while i do not think that 'A religion' should be taught in school, there is nothing wrong with applying the 10 commandments to the standards.  that is something that the 3 major religions agree on.   the odd druid or atheist can ignore the wording if they follow the spirit.  same with school prayer.  rotating local ministers and church leaders means that most beliefs are covered.  if a few are offended, well....welcome to the real world.  i'd rather school started with a prayer than a knife fight.

liberals have equated morality and spirituality with christianity, and banned it.  never mind that this doesn't say much for liberals, the end result was to teach kids that there are no rules outside the ones they choose to follow.  rather than teaching kids to respect all, which was their stated goal, they have taught kids to respect none. they have taught kids that standards are relative.  do what feels good.  there are no absolutes.

you have to wonder what they are afraid of when they ban invocations and benedictions at ball games and graduations.   

i remember my grandmother telling me  that god saw what i was doing even if she didn't.  that didn't always keep me out of trouble, but it sure did come to mind every time i was about to do something i shouldn't! 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 07:19:53 PM »

It all starts at home not at school. Kids do and act how they see there parents doing and acting.  If there parent blame everyone else then low and behold you have a child that blames.  We need to get back to taking responsibility for our own actions, then our children will follow our lead. 
I personally try to follow the "ten commandments" even though I don't necessarily believe that Jesus Christ was our savior, because whoever?Huh scribed the TEN had a lot right with his or her mojo.  How about we adopt a pledge that cycles through all the religions of the world?  One day Christian God, one day Budda  the next day Allah (sp?), etc.? Equality for all.
On another note.  I heard that if you do the math with the bail out. every person in the U.S. would receive a goodly amount if we spread the bail out cash around. Equal dollars for everyone.  What was it something like $400,000 for each tax payer?  could this be correct? If it is then we are really talking about a stimulus package. 
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 07:57:30 PM »

Quote
It all starts at home not at school. Kids do and act how they see there parents doing and acting

which makes the point that the current way of thinking is not working.  i am old enough to remember when religion was kicked out of school. at that same time, the two working parent family or single parent family, became more the norm than the exception.  church attendance when down, and "do your own thing" went up. it has become a cycle now.  religion fails, morality fails, families fail, society fails.

 like it or not, all societies thougout recorded history have religion as a base for their morality.  no religion=no moral structure.  what do you base moral teachings on?  if everyone gets to pick their own right and wrong, there is no right or wrong.  we are left with the government choosing our morality for us.  we have examples of this with communism.  the first thing done in a communist take over is the abolishment of religion.  why?  because that way the government gets to make all the decisions about what is good for us.  what is right and wrong.

we have examples of religion in the extreme from Catholicism and Islam.  this is not what i am talking about.  i am talking about a basic set of beliefs on which your society is based.  there are enough examples in history of the failure of societies when the gods failed.  we do not need to repeat in this country these failed experiments.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 08:57:56 PM »

 I saws the poem years ago, or one very similar, also by a student....Probably the same one, Never the less, I cant say Its not ringing true, no matter who wrote it. And whos kidding who? Parents cant teach there kids right or wrong very often...You give the kid a lickin' for stealing the nabors tomatoes(for fun), you go to jail for assault.
 Day care is the standard.....It used to be that kids had a babysitter and usually it seemed it was only about once a month or less on a Friday or saturday nite, and it was usually only till midnite or earlier. Parents DO blame the schools alot for how their kids act, but I think its all related to the breakdown of the family structure such as single parents, or parents who put themselves before their children. In my case, I have a stepson and have never had my own kids. I refer to him as my son, but I just dont see him the same way as my wife does, otherwise I would probably let him get away with more than he does already. I constantly pray that i can love him as my own son but its not easy. I dont think kids nowadays actually bond with their parents the way parents and kids did years ago...I mean, I remember being homesick when I was in the boyscouts on the campouts, or even when spending the nite at someones house, but now, "Homesickness" seems to re a really rare disease.
 Kathy, I agree with you, and renmag, its true,....It all starts at home.
 You know what?Huh My family ( 3 of us) dont even have our meals together very often. And, if we do, we sit around the house all split up, one in the kitchen , me on the couch with a tray, and janelle later at nite.
I never had meals like this at my parents house, and still, mom and dad eat at the table together...This might not seem a big deal, but I feel it really is....I think a family and its members should BE members of a family, not just running around doing their own thing but contributing to making it a family(you know, sharing responsibilities and chores).
Well, now you guys know how I live....Its a good life but It could be alot better.....And, this includes the way I am too,...I'm not pointing fingers at others in my family But I sometimes feel I should have been setting a better example as a father and husband for the last 10 years.

your friend,
john
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 11:20:42 PM »

john, what makes you think that biological parents always love their kids?  smiley  there have been times when i have wondered what madness made me think that having children was a good thing.  even now, they often drive me crazy.  i love them, but i don't always like them!

if you are a good role model for him and do the best you can to teach him well, there is nothing more that can be asked of you.  sometimes it seems that it is not enough, but if they have a good foundation, they come back to it eventually. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 12:31:06 AM »

This poem has been passed around the internet for the last decade.  I’m not sure how this is a pledge to the United States, it is certainly not a pledge to any principles of democracy or plurality.  All together it is an example of the cultural fight over Christian Privilege and Christian Supremacy in America.

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule

False.  Any student can pray in school so long as it is not disruptive, like praying when the teacher is is instructing the class.  It is simply prohibited that teachers or faculty can lead students in prayer as part of a school function.  As a taxpayer funded institution, this is a simple measure that keeps schools from violating the Establishment Clause.
For this great nation under God
Some Americans agree with that statement, but many do not.  Christians have no more claim on this country than any other citizen.  Arguing otherwise is equivalent to arguing that non-Christians should be considered second-class citizens.
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.

If the class is “reciting” scripture as part of religious instruction, darn right it violates the Bill of Rights.  How else would the author have it?  Every teacher instructing students on their personal religious beliefs?  Does the author want public school teachers who are wasting time in their Math and English classes by instructing students on Baptist doctrines, Catholic doctrines, Muslim doctrines, Mormon doctrines, or Scientologist doctrines.  How is that useful for public education, or right for the teachers to do?  Or is it that the author would like to force schools to teach all students in the United States his own particular brand of religion?  Again, this is a gross demonstration of how many Christians are not fighting for their religious freedoms, but for their Christian Privilege because they don’t like that its legitimacy has been challenged.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

This is simply an untrue and inflammatory remark.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

Why would that be an offense?  Is the author arguing that dying your hair is immoral or corrupt?  As long as students aren’t dying their hair in class I am baffled at how one would think it hurts students.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

Only if they are disrupting the class.  Arguing otherwise is another dishonest attempt to inflame the audience.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

And another lie.  The only thing that is prohibited is for the school to sponsor or lead a prayer.  Students can pray, aloud, or in silence, to any deities they wish.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
I don’t know any teachers that allow cussing in their class room.  And it is simply untrue that cussing in school is protected by any regulations or laws.
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

Outlawed guns?  Why does the author feel the need to continuously lie?  And such easily disproved lies as well.  The Second Amendment still stands, people can still own guns.  No one has been trying to change that.  Though if he means that they’ve banned guns from schools, then that’s true, but I feel no sympathy for that grievance.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
No, but this lie might.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

Can’t say that I’ve ever heard of this happening, so first I’d like to demand evidence.  Second: So?  Like the hair and piercings, I fail to see how this is relevant to argument.  Unless, (as implied by the next line) the author wants our public institutions to be used to turn people into social pariahs for not fitting traditional family categories.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.

Another outright lie.  Right and wrong are taught in school all the time.  You have history, and literature, and the history of the sciences.  All of which are filled with lessons of right and wrong.  Does the author really want teachers to teach students to judge on perceived morality of life choices?  What if their ideas about moral lifestyle conflict with his own?  Of course he doesn’t want them to teach any set of ideas about moral lifestyles, he wants the schools to teach his beliefs.  Privilege and Supremacy rearing their ugly heads again

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
The most proven method of reducing the rate of unwanted teen pregnancies is good sex education and access to birth control.  If you care about helping teens, then you should be for this.
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
I’m sorry, but is the author making the claim that schools teach witchcraft, etc.?  Evidence please.  Otherwise, students can study whatever they want outside of class.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

Again not true, the Ten Commandments are taught in schools in the context of their historic place in Western Civilization.  It only crosses the line when the teacher tries to preach about them to students.  Also, I wonder, which religion’s version of the Ten Commandments does the author want indoctrinated into his children?  There are three versions in the Old Testament, and different groups enshrine different versions.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

Chaos, really?  I hope the author is simply ignorant of the ever increasing stringency of No-Tolerance policies at public schools.  Otherwise, he is yet again being purposely dishonest to his audience.  Schools are monitored like prisons, and more schools across the country are trying to exert control and disciplinary jurisdiction over their students even when they are not in school.  We have the laptop webcams spying on students in their homes, and students being thrown off sports teams for “suggestive” pictures on their Facebook pages that were taken over summer break.  Schools are not falling to chaos, they are becoming police states.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Hey wait a minute; I thought the author was upset that guns were banned from schools!
Amen
I would call this a prayer, but really this is a pledge to Christian Supremacy in the form of a poem.  It is only disguised as a prayer, and no benevolent god would be pleased by a prayer riddled with so much dishonesty.

I know that as a Christian, it is difficult to see Christian Privilege, the same as it is difficult for me to see white privilege or male privilege.  My wife and I didn’t see how pervasive Christian Privilege was until after we found ourselves on the other side, and then we were amazed that we’d missed it before.  I’m certain that many who agree with or express the sentiments found in this pledge are not actually bigots, they simply haven’t stepped back to consider how much special treatment has been given to Christians in this country.

If this is the case for you, I understand completely.  But I hope that now you’ll take a moment to consider the views of the other 70 million American citizens who are non-Christians (approximately 22%), and stop pushing the idea that you entitled to privileges and recognitions from our government that non-Christians don’t enjoy.
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 12:37:42 AM »

@kathyp

Quote
schools do teach other belief systems.  islam is all the rage now. after all, we must understand other and respect them, right?  everyone but christians.  if you are christian, your beliefs are not allowed.

I challenge you to cite a single public school where Islamic doctrines or Sharia law is taught.  Peoples’ beliefs can be talked about in the classroom; I have never seen a class where a teacher has prohibited students from mentioning what they believe if it is relevant to the topic.

Quote
i don't know if you have walked into a public school lately, but they are hell holes.  kids don't respect teachers.  they don't respect each other. they don't respect themselves.  drugs, alcohol, and sexual promiscuity are rampant.  this is true even in the better neighborhoods. 

I have been in public school lately.  Three words: No Tolerance Policies.  Three more words: Constant Faculty Surveillance.  Even if what you say is true, teaching the Christian gospels or leading students in school prayers are not magic wands for disciplinary problems.  Even if your argument wasn’t demonstrably false it would still be a red herring.

Quote
parent are busy working two jobs so that the kids can have PS3s, cell phones, and cool clothes.  they consider "quality time" to be that time between 6 and 9 pm spent watching TV with the kids before bed.  weekends are a rush to do all that needs to be done before the cycle starts again on monday.

Another red herring, this is irrelevant to whether or not Christian Privilege in schools is either beneficial, or consistent with our Constitution.

Quote
while i do not think that 'a religion' should be taught in school, there is nothing wrong with applying the 10 commandments to the standards.  that is something that the 3 major religions agree on.   the odd druid or atheist can ignore the wording if they follow the spirit.

Let’s take a look at them:

1. 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

2. 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

3. 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

4. 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'


Okay so the first four Commandments are explicitly religious.  They are not universal values, they are about devotion to a particular deity.  How does one follow them in spirit?  And why should they have a place in the publicly funded classroom?

5. 'Honor your father and your mother.'

An excellent sentiment, and one that I was taught in school without the Ten Commandments ever having to be invoked.

6. 'You shall not murder.'

I would think that this is obvious with or without the Ten Commandments.

7. 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Again, I don’t see the value of invoking religion to justify why this is wrong.  Also age of consent laws make this redundant for the sake of protecting our students: if our students are having sex with people who are married, then it is not just adultery on their part, it is pedophilia on the part of their partner.

8. 'You shall not steal.'

Another nice little command, and again people don’t need to invoke any god’s name to justify why you should follow it.

9. 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

If you interpret this as “don’t lie” (which is inaccurate) then this is another “duh,” and covered in, amongst other things, academic integrity codes and ethics about plagiarism. If you correctly interpret this as a law regarding legal proceedings, then it both redundant (perjury laws are taught in civics without needing to invoke anyone’s faith) and irrelevant to school life.

10. 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

This is my favorite commandment.  This is the one that justifies punishing people for what they think.  Envy becomes a thought crime.  This is also an antithesis to American culture. We work hard because we see the rewards of working hard and also want to have them.  This is the very premise of why Americans reject socialism, “If everyone gets the same thing, why would anyone try to work hard.”

The other great bit about this commandment is that it reinforces the Biblical lesson that women are property.

Quote
  same with school prayer.  rotating local ministers and church leaders means that most beliefs are covered.  if a few are offended, well....welcome to the real world.  i'd rather school started with a prayer than a knife fight.

So you want clergy of religions you don’t agree with to have the opportunity to evangelize to your children while they’re at school?  Also, what do you mean by “welcome to the real world?”  Where in the real world are you, on a daily basis, an unwilling captive audience for someone else’s belief system?  Someone who is being paid to come in with your tax dollars.  I can think of many better ways to spend our limited resources.

And who the hell proposed knife fights as the alternative to school prayer?  What planet do you live on that you think a daily prayer is the equivalent to adequate security and supervision?  If you want your kids to start the day with prayer, then pray with them before the go to school.  Because it’s a waste of time and money for everyone else.

Quote
liberals have equated morality and spirituality with christianity, and banned it.

No, Christians make that equation.  That is why you think eliminating Christian Privilege in public schools is the same thing as “banning morality.”  If this wasn’t the case, I wouldn’t have to constantly defend myself against Christians who tell me I can’t be moral without their god.  Don’t deny it, I’d bet good money you’ve used the very same argument against atheists.

Actually, I do have proof in your later comment: "like it or not, all societies thougout recorded history have religion as a base for their morality.  no religion=no moral structure."  In addition to contradicting yourself, this statement is also false.  There have been many societies that have maintained moral structure without the need for supernatural dogma (Confucianism in China for example).  And if we as a society had not fought against religious dogma throughout our own history, we would still own slaves and stone people for working on the Sabbath, like the Jewish and Christian holy texts instruct us to.

Quote
  never mind that this doesn't say much for liberals, the end result was to teach kids that there are no rules outside the ones they choose to follow.  rather than teaching kids to respect all, which was their stated goal, they have taught kids to respect none. they have taught kids that standards are relative.  do what feels good.  there are no absolutes.

Teaching children to show “respect for all” cannot lead to “respect for none.”  That is a gross logical contradiction.  Please cite your evidence that schools are teaching students that they should only “do what feels good.”  I would again point to No Tolerance Policies as my evidence that absolute codes of conduct are the law of the land in public schools.

As a side note: I do not know any educated and rationalist liberals/atheists that agree with moral relativism.  We reject it as well.  The difference between you and us is that you think moral truths have already been handed to you, while we attempt to define them by using empathy and examining the consequences of our choices.

Quote
you have to wonder what they are afraid of when they ban invocations and benedictions at ball games and graduations. 


We’re not afraid of anything.  We simply recognize that it is in violation of our Constitution when officials who are paid with tax payer money lead these during official functions.  I am sorry that you don’t like your privileged status being taken away, but it is undeserved and unconstitutional.

Quote
i remember my grandmother telling me  that god saw what i was doing even if she didn't.  that didn't always keep me out of trouble, but it sure did come to mind every time i was about to do something i shouldn't!

Sounds like it didn’t work to improve you then.  Feeling guilt is not the same thing as avoiding the actions that brought the guilt in the first place.  That’s fine for your grandmother to tell you that, or for you to teach your children.  But who do you think you are that you can demand that public school teachers have to teach my children your beliefs?  You can have your beliefs, and I can have mine.  But when you demand Christian Privilege be resurrected so that your beliefs get precedence in public institutions, you are over stepping your bounds.
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 07:14:01 AM »

greenbee86 writes:
I am sorry that you don’t like your privileged status being taken away, but it is undeserved and unconstitutional.

tecumseh:
seems to be a common thread in a lot of rants here at the coffee house.  THE RUB so to speak.

nice post..

of course you could have started here snip...
'Since the Pledge of Allegiance
And
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore'

tecumseh:
'most' would certainly need some fleshing out here.
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I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 07:52:28 AM »

Ten Commandments

Exodus Chapter 20:3-17
Viewing the 1769 King James Version.


                                                                 



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3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


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4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:


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5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


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7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.


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8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


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12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.


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13 Thou shalt not kill.


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14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.


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15 Thou shalt not steal.


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16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.



               BEE HAPPY Jim Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
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bud1
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 08:40:12 AM »

Miss Kathy. I am with you 100%. I caried my gun and shells to school on the buss when I was spending the weekend with some one; no problem.
 There was a prayer opening every event at the school i attended and no councling, but a whipping when you got too out of line
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to bee or not to bee
Jerrymac
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2010, 08:56:41 AM »

We simply recognize that it is in violation of our Constitution when officials who are paid with tax payer money lead these during official functions.  I am sorry that you don’t like your privileged status being taken away, but it is undeserved and unconstitutional.

Where in the constitution does it say a tax paid official can not say a prayer?
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2010, 09:07:37 AM »

greenbee, can you put your location in your profile please.  i guess i have the post of unofficial location reminder  smiley

quite a diatribe (X 2) you wrote.  welcome to the coffee house.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2010, 10:53:49 AM »

Thanks Jim for demonstrating my point about how there are different versions of the Ten Commandments.  If anyone is interested in more info on this there's a page on About.com, search "Different Versions of the Ten Commandments" and it's the top article (sorry, can't give links yet).

Bud, if you really think that bringing guns to school and whipping children is a good idea, you're free to home school them.  Then you can pray with them and beat them to your heart's content.

Jerrymac, the Separation of Church and State.  The Federal Courts have a long history of interpreting the First Amendment to mean that tax dollars cannot be spent on overt endorsements of religious beliefs.  That means that a public official is barred from leading a prayer when he or she is presiding in an official capacity over a publicly funded event.  When he or she is acting as a private citizen at a private event, then more power to them.  It's only an issue when they're representing the state.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2010, 11:28:51 AM »


Should I be shot; My soul please take![/color]
Hey wait a minute; I thought the author was upset that guns were banned from schools!


Yeah - peculiar that when places are declared "gun free" zones - the psychos who want to rack up a high body count before the police show up and ventilate them (or they finally put the gun to their own heads) -They head straight for places where they know with a certainty that their victims will not be armed. No one has ever heard of a shooting rampage at a gun club.
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be happy and make others happy.
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