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Author Topic: the Oregon Terrorist  (Read 2186 times)

Offline Keith13

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the Oregon Terrorist
« on: November 30, 2010, 02:51:36 PM »
Is it just me or does anyone else believe the guy was for lack of a better word or phrase "set up" by the FBI? I haven't read into the case to much frankly there is not a lot of real information out there yet. But one thing I keep seeing is the guy was disillusioned and he got in contact with what he thought was radical muslims. From there he was guided until he decided he wanted to blow something up, and then was provided with the means or at least what he thought was the means to do it. Something sounds wrong with that maybe I am missing something. Now I saw this morning the local Portland prosecuter does not want to work with the FBI. Maybe some of my northwestern friends can tell me what I am missing.
What do ya'll think?

Keith

Offline Eric-WD

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 03:08:03 PM »
by law entrapment is to convince someone to do something that they are not normally inclined to do.
An example of this is a case where the government had a guy on a child porn watch list. they sent him over 100 offers to purchase child porn after 100+ offers he ordered some and was arrested the courts ruled that he was entrapped if they had offered once and he had ordered there would not have been an entrapment issue.   I have not doubt that the defence in this case is going to shout entrapment as that is the only issue he has chance of getting this terrorist off.

This event took place over months not days or weeks. during conversations with FBI he repeatedly stated that he wanted to cause a large amount of harm.  He was given every opportunity to remove himself from this event and did not do so.  The FBI did not target this individual because of his nationality or religion but because he was reported to be looking for help in a terrorist act. I'm just glad that he found the FBI and not someone else that would have actually helped him build a real bomb.  I have no doubt that with or with out the FBI this guy would have tried to kill people, with out the FBI he probably would have succeeded.

this is a pretty good article on what led to the arrest

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/27/national/main7093701.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Eric

Offline iddee

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 03:14:12 PM »
I agree with Eric.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline kathyp

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 03:50:34 PM »
yup.  he showed intent right up the the last moment.  i'd guess that's why they didn't arrest him until after he tried to set the thing off.  he sure seemed to have had plenty of chances, including at the end, to have changed his mind.

glad he failed, but also glad that it happened here.  about time the folks around here woke up.  all these nice, friendly, sanctuary types are so shocked that someone could want to kill them!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 04:08:55 PM »
Perhaps they should have reminded him how the suicide bombers get 72 virgins and had him strap on some explosives. Then as he walked off on his way to the target they could have lit him up when he was safely away from them.  :shock:

But then I guess they would really be in trouble.  :idunno:
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Offline Irwin

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 04:19:20 PM »
Perhaps they should have reminded him how the suicide bombers get 72 virgins and had him strap on some explosives. Then as he walked off on his way to the target they could have lit him up when he was safely away from them.  :shock:

But then I guess they would really be in trouble.  :idunno:
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Offline Keith13

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 04:52:22 PM »
ok the article helps but.. where did he get the original bomb parts? I guess all those answers will come out. My thoughts of the case in the begining just seemed a student was mad at America and wanted to do something and the FBI led him along. I may have been wrong but that was the way the news led me to think

Keith

Offline kathyp

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 05:03:31 PM »
he had been in contact with some overseas in an effort to get started on his new terrorist career :-)  at some point, the FBI stepped in and he believed he was dealing with fellow terrorists.  as i understand it, his father had already made the FBI aware that the boy was up to something.  that's why they were watching him.

i'm sure more will come out as time goes by.

what does it take for a father to turn a son into the FBI?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline hardwood

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 08:30:54 PM »
If he doesn't clean up his room by the time my daughter and son in law come home for Christmas I'll turn mine in :-D

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline Eric-WD

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 10:20:14 PM »
ok the article helps but.. where did he get the original bomb parts? I guess all those answers will come out. My thoughts of the case in the begining just seemed a student was mad at America and wanted to do something and the FBI led him along. I may have been wrong but that was the way the news led me to think

Keith

Bomb parts are as close as wal-mart and the local hardware store.  The bomb that Timothy McVeigh used was a rental truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel.

Most bombs these days including this one use a disposable cell phone as the trigger, any one with a little science and electronics background can build one. or anyone who can read a website.

Eric


Offline AllenF

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 10:27:41 PM »
Like the FBI giving you a gun and telling you where to buy the bullets?

Offline kathyp

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 10:29:00 PM »
you still have to load the gun and pull the trigger  :-D
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline iddee

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 11:01:40 PM »
And you have the choice of killing people or going hunting for food. He wanted to kill people, period...
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline AllenF

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 11:07:46 PM »
Why did he not try and kill himself during the bombing?   I thought that was the right way to do it.

Offline iddee

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 11:34:25 PM »
As he well knows now, he didn't do it the right way.  :-D
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Bee Happy

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 08:57:40 AM »
Give a man enough rope... and everything he does with it will be considered your fault.
be happy and make others happy.

Offline Eric-WD

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 10:37:43 AM »
Why did he not try and kill himself during the bombing?   I thought that was the right way to do it.
from the interviews of people who knew him, it appears that he is a sick hate filled person looking for an excuse to kill, not a Muslim looking for redemption.  according to the interviews he was about as good a Muslim as a bomber.

Eric

Offline kathyp

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Re: the Oregon Terrorist
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 11:35:15 AM »
Quote
according to the interviews he was about as good a Muslim as a bomber.

although, not to give him to much credit, this is the pattern with Muslim terrorists in this country. it will be interesting to find out, if we ever do, how much instruction he got in the emails before the FBI stepped in. 

Ft Hood shooter was an exception, as he seemed to be a very good Muslim.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

 

anything