Foundation question

[Rich V]

When using the 100% beeswax foundation, that have vertical wires already installed. Do I need to embedded the horizontal wires into the wax?

Rich V

[Robo]

You don't have to,  but I would advice it.  It keeps the foundation in the center of the frame.   At a minimum use the pins on the side.

[Horns Pure Honey]

I like the pins, little quicker. I guess not always better though.

[asleitch]

You don't have to,  but I would advice it.  It keeps the foundation in the center of the frame.   At a minimum use the pins on the side.

I've never used anything other than the vertical wires. Why would you? The whole point of buying it wired is it removes the process of heating and embedding the wires - if you have to do this anyway - you might as well get the cheaper unwired foundation to start with?

Perhaps your foundation is different across the pond?

Adam

[Robo]

Of course you don't HAVE to do anything,  but just as it is important to have a straight foundation when building a house, it is important when building comb.  I find that without the horizontal wires, it is easy for the foundation to belly to one side or the other.  if this happens, it not only mess up that frame, but also the two adjacent frames (one will be overdrawn and the other will be underdrawn).  

Its sort of like a gambling, it might not happen for a while, but when it does you have wasted your bees efforts.  As a hobbiest, I do a lot more time consuming things than would be feasible for a commercial beekeeper.  

For the record, I hate the pins.  Soon as the foundation gets the least bit cold or brittle, they break thru and leave a mess.

Yes I think our foundation is different.  I believe yours is wired in a W fashion , where ours is truely vertical.  I do believe the bellying is probably less of an issue with the W.

[asleitch]

I find that without the horizontal wires, it is easy for the foundation to belly to one side or the other.  if this happens, it not only mess up that frame, but also the two adjacent frames (one will be overdrawn and the other will be underdrawn).

The only time I experienced this was using frames that were no square, or using foundation that was slightly oversize. I got some bowing on one sheet, and checked the rest of the sheets and they were all slightly too wide. Even with horizontal wires this would have not corrected the problem. I found slicing a millimeter or two (whats that in imperial - 1/12th inch? something like that) of the edge at the sides helped reduce this "rippling" altogether. I often do this on all foundation now, just to make sure it is not pushed and causing the ripple.

Out of interest, if you look closely at a fully drawn worker comb, the queen will rarely lay in a cell which has the wire running through the base, You can see clear "zig-zag" lines through the comb, often with pollen in as she rejects these cells for brood. This is a reason to minimise the amount of wires through the comb. Although it doesn't look any different to us, the queen is very selective about the cells she will lay in, and often rejects cells for things too subtle for us to see. So you might get straighter comb, but it won't be so effectively utilised.

You are correct we use "W" wires in our foundation.

Adam

[golfpsycho]

But they'll store honey in it, and it comes out of the extractor in great shape.