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Author Topic: if you own a gun.....  (Read 3760 times)
kathyp
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« on: October 28, 2008, 10:41:37 AM »

there are a number of things the UN has been trying to pass.  the US and a few other countries have been able to block most of this.  that may be about to change.

the UN would like (just to name a few things) an international crimes tribunal....crimes to be defined by the UN, a standing UN army, (by conscription? or numbers per country required?), an international tax to fund itself, and small arms control.

CASA and it's sub sections are pretty interesting to read, but SALSA is equally frightening. it has to do with ammunition, etc.  strangely, many of the articles are not in english....not a problem if you have a translator smiley  google does a reasonable job.

understanding that UN documents are re-written and cleaned up before posting on-line, and understanding that the word "illicit" is defined by the international body (subject to change), the documents taken together are frightening.

recently a friend pointed out that taking guns away from US citizens would lead to a revolution.  that's probably true.  however, making it progressively harder to find and buy ammunition and equipment would, over time, accomplish the same thing.

regardless of your political leanings you will probably agree that if we elect Obama he is more likely to support UN desires and general "internationalism".  those things that the US has blocked in the past, are likely to be supported in the future.

if you own guns, now would be a good time to make sure you are well supplied with ammunition and equipment. 

just for fun  tongue

http://cyberschoolbus.un.org/dnp/sub2.asp?ipage=smallarms


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 11:43:22 AM »

Kathy I've been trying to tell people about this fore year's. And yes I do have a stock pile. This stuff scare's the he-- out of me. I may be out of hand but I think they the UN is trying for a one world order and they are the head of it. The last thing we need is a spineless president. I haven't heard any thing about are second amendment right in the debate's have you. has any body heard what Obama think's about it? This is like a full jar of candy take one piece and nobody will notice but when it's all gone every body Say's what happend to the candy. That's what's going on with gun Rights.
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 12:08:28 PM »

also forgot to add that they want to do away with the veto power of the 5 permanent members, and also would like to do away with the 5 permanent members either entirely, or have new members on a rotating basis.  if you look at the list of member countries, and look at those put on councils like human rights, etc. you can see where that will end up.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 02:02:29 PM »

If any one ever does run out of ammunition I will share.  I have enough components to last many lifetimes
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 03:43:20 PM »

Just what happens to a president that breaks his oath anyway?

    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 04:03:03 PM »

well....when the majority elect a president who has already expressed disappointment in the constitution, and will appoint judges who believe the constitution is a "living document," probably...nothing.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 04:26:15 PM »

So what is the military to do  shocked

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Seems the constitution is first and the president is second.
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 04:37:40 PM »

so it is.  it was designed that way for a reason.  remember we had this conversation during Jericho smiley.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 04:53:17 PM »

Big differences in those oath's between the pres and the military. The pres gets to weakly state "to the best of my ability" while the military says "I will...."

Maybe that's why a former military man would be best.... Wink
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »

Quote
Maybe that's why a former military man would be best

considering our choices...that seems to be the best of the bad.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Irwin
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 07:20:33 PM »

I think that if you have never served in the military you should not have the right to be president.
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 07:41:27 PM »

oh, i don't know.  we have had some good non-military presidents, and some not so good prior service presidents.  carter was no prize, yet he was a graduate of the naval academy and served on subs.  Jefferson had no military service, but was a reasonably good president....it did take him a while to figure out that force is sometimes the best option....  both Adams were civilians.

i prefer military service because i want the person who orders large chunks of my family into harms way, to have clue.  Clinton, for instance, had us pretty much continually angry off...but so did carter  smiley
unfortunately, i served under both.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 07:50:43 PM »

I am just buying food, gold and bullets and not necessarily in that order. Plus lining people up to live on the compound and man the guard towers. evil
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 07:53:09 PM »

If any one ever does run out of ammunition I will share.  I have enough components to last many lifetimes
  My other hobbie is a gunsmith evil
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 07:56:21 PM »

When the war / revolution starts, I will be ready.

Steve
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2008, 08:04:07 PM »

Do anybody bow hunt?
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2008, 08:39:59 PM »

I haven't heard any thing about are second amendment right in the debate's have you. has any body heard what Obama think's about it?

From the Illinois State Rifle Association's web site. http://www.isra.org/
"Any sportsman who counts Barack Obama as one of his friends is seriously confused," said ISRA Executive Director Richard Pearson. "Throughout his tenure in the Illinois Senate, Obama served as one of the most loyal foot soldiers in Mayor Daley's campaign to abolish civilian firearm ownership. While a state senator, Obama voted for legislation that would ban and forcibly confiscate nearly every shotgun, target rifle and hunting rifle in the state. Obama also voted for bills that would ration the number of firearms a law-abiding citizen could own, yet give a pass to the violent thugs who roam our streets. And, inexplicably, Obama voted four times against legislation that would allow citizens to use firearms to defend their homes and families."
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2008, 08:44:30 PM »

Apparently, nothing happens.  When the Supreme Court struck down the law restricting guns withing so many yards of a school, as a violation of the 10th amendment, Clinton said "I have instructed the Attorney General to find a way around the Constitution."
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2008, 10:30:03 PM »

When the war / revolution starts, I will be ready.

Steve
We will be, too.
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« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2008, 10:42:46 PM »

Do anybody bow hunt?

I bowhunt, (own two recurves, a long bow and a compound) rifle (270) and blackpowder (50cal) and I own a 12 guage shotgun and a 22 long rifle. Mainly I just enjoy being out in the woods, taking game now and again is lagniappe.

Oh, and protecting myself from thugs.


...JP
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« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2008, 05:04:22 AM »

And just remember. All those with gun permits/license.

They know where to find you.
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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2008, 07:19:03 AM »

And just remember. All those with gun permits/license.

They know where to find you.
So are we supposed to give up because of that?  Some of us have no choice but to register, because after all, we're not criminals - they don't bother.
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 07:45:00 AM »

There will be millions of guns mysteriously "lost" prior to any passage of a gun ban or authorities come looking for them. Many, many guns were "lost" over the sides of boats while hunting in other countries that went this direction. Oh, the stories I have heard... evil

I'm already "losing" my guns.  grin

And it never hurts to pick up an extra one or two from the little old lady down the street that wanted to get rid of them after her husband died.  rolleyes

Whether you like Bush or not, and all other things set aside...for me, it was nice to not hear anything about gun control for the past 8 years. But that will quickly take center stage again.
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 08:41:41 AM »

JC
please promise that you'll change your avatar after holloween.
Oct 31 cant come soon enough

I ment JP sorry  JC is a contractor freind of mine
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kathyp
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« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »

Quote
JC
please promise that you'll change your avatar after holloween.
Oct 31 cant come soon enough

i'm sure you are talking to JP, and i am with you.  don't call him JC...you'll inflate the other end!   evil


Quote
And it never hurts to pick up an extra one or two from the little old lady down the street that wanted to get rid of them after her husband died. 

Whether you like Bush or not, and all other things set aside...for me, it was nice to not hear anything about gun control for the past 8 years. But that will quickly take center stage again.

yup...and as left leaning as the SR of Oregon is, we at least have a lot of latitude in weapons purchase.  just don't forget the ammunition.  i believe it will be the first thing hit.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 10:44:42 AM »

And just remember. All those with gun permits/license.

They know where to find you.
So are we supposed to give up because of that?  Some of us have no choice but to register, because after all, we're not criminals - they don't bother.

Yeah I know it is too late to do anything about it now. It's just that people have always had the right to keep and bear arms, and it just amazes me how easily they give up that right, any right, and seek permission to do so. Should have been stopped the very first time some little town way back when made that first ban on guns.

But now that the Supreme Court has decided that the 2nd amendment does indeed mean "THE PEOPLE" have the right, THE PEOPLE should pursue the "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" part of it.

Wasn't the Constitution written for the people, by the people? Just when did the people decide some branch of the government got to interpret it anyway?
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« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 11:01:02 AM »

People forget that MCain has also supported controls on guns in his past.
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 12:23:55 PM »



yes he has, but....

I know how to use guns; but I don't own one. (Nov 2007)
Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes. (Sep 2007)
Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types. (Sep 2007)
Calls for GOP "tolerance" of closing gun show loopholes. (May 2002)
Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks. (Aug 1999)
Supports ban on certain assault weapons. (Aug 1999)
Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos. (Aug 1999)
Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights. (May 1999)
Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids. (May 1999)
Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)
Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Gun_Control.htm

obama
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005

so, given the choice?Huh?

Quote
Wasn't the Constitution written for the people, by the people? Just when did the people decide some branch of the government got to interpret it anyway?


not exactly.  it was written to define the limited role of government and to clearly give all other rights to the states.  because we are not a democracy, "the people" didn't really  have to many defined rights.  the bill of rights was added to identify certain individual rights, and state that all other rights are given to the citizenry and the states.

the people were sheeple.  smiley  there are two thoughts on interpretation of the constitution by the courts.  some of us believe that rulings should be made according to a strict interpretation of the constitution.  in other words; what did the writers of the constitution actually intend and why.  this is often done by taking into account other writings of the founders.  there is a danger in this.  the so called "separation of church and state" ruling was brought about by a casual reading of TJ's response to a question by the Danbury Baptists.  the response was not taken in context with the question. 

the other line of thought is that courts should interpret the constitution according the what the founders might have thought in a modern world. the "living document" line of thought. this gives the courts the green light to do pretty much what they want, because you can mentally develop a historical character any way you wish.  someone who wrote against slavery can be brought forward to support abortion.  isn't being forced to have a child you don't want, a kind of slavery?

anyway, that's a gross over simplification, but you get the idea.

this election, for me, is more about the supreme court, than about presidents.  presidents come and go, but supreme court justices are forever!  of course, once we are fully in bed with the UN, it will be difficult to extricate ourselves from that mess........
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2008, 08:55:12 AM »

Kathy it look's like you been doing your home work. Good for you grin
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2008, 07:49:27 PM »

When the war / revolution starts, I will be ready.

Steve

I have the weapons, I'm now concentrating on acquiring sufficient ammunition to defend my family and property against enemies both foriegn and domestic.  The US Government has bought back a lot of our freedoms through programs of giving out tax money back to us with strings attached, Welfare, Social Security, up to and including No Child Left Behind and the inroads continue.  It will soon come to the point that they will begin to remove our freedoms by force.  Electing Obama president is the new beginning of the destruction of the US Constitution and recognizing the UN as the "One World Government."
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2008, 10:13:54 PM »

Incrementalism is the word of the Day.
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