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Poll
Question: I've tried foundationless frames and:
I'm glad I did - 39 (79.6%)
I regret I did - 10 (20.4%)
Total Voters: 47


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Author Topic: Satisfaction poll: foundationless frames  (Read 8497 times)
Michael Bush
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 06:48:06 AM »

>Please define "success" and how you can attribute such success to a foundationless system.

In the case of this poll, it's just whether you're glad or sorry you did.  That leaves the definition up to you.
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Michael Bush
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Ross
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 10:31:49 PM »

I'm completely foundationless for over 5 years now.  Nothing enters my hives but wood and bees.  I have healthy bees and seldom if ever lose a hive.  I use beveled top bars as my guides.
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2008, 11:39:11 PM »

I just started this year and have wood frames with foundation, plastic frames, wood frames with plastic foundation and frames with starter strips.  I also tried a brief stint with HSC.  Perhaps I ahve too many options, but I wanted to watch them all.  I like the plastic  Mann Lake frames  (PF-100) and the starter strips the best.  I have had some bad comb on the plastic, but not much.  I have really been pleased with the foundationless.  I plan next year to use it almost exclusively in a few of my starter hives ( I will put a pf-120 or two in the box as a ladder). 
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2008, 02:02:40 PM »

Could someone please point me to a site where foundationless frames or frames with starter strips are explained (pictures would help a lot!)  This sounds very interesting, and Bill W's picture is very helpful -- will the comb ultimately expand to fill the entire frame?  Are the wires necessary?

Thanks,

Pat
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annette
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2008, 02:13:10 PM »

Could someone please point me to a site where foundationless frames or frames with starter strips are explained (pictures would help a lot!)  This sounds very interesting, and Bill W's picture is very helpful -- will the comb ultimately expand to fill the entire frame?  Are the wires necessary?

Thanks,

Pat


Pat,



Here is a link to one of our members blog. she explains very well about the starter strips with photos
and she has a video on how to place them in the frames. The bees will draw out the combs and attach them on both sides and top. Sometimes they do not attach right down to the bottom, but they are strong anyway. Wires are not necessary with this technique.

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/03/small-cell-foundation-starter-strips.html

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-use-wax-tube-fastener_26.html

And Michael Bush's web site has great info

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

I hope this helps some
Keep asking if you want more direction.
annette

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BjornBee
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« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2008, 02:16:30 PM »

I have trench style TBH's that use starter strips. I also have foundationless frames in standard equipment. I think they are great.

I have never tried extracting foundationless frames. Not sure if I ever will try.  Smiley

I think TBH's, foundationless frames, and any other type comb adventures you try is well worth it and is a learning experience. That's what its all about....having fun and trying new things.

BTW...Hello MB.
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2008, 04:06:51 PM »

Annette:  Thanks so much!.  Those are great sites! 
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2008, 06:56:16 PM »

>BTW...Hello MB.

Hello BjornBee.
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Michael Bush
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sc-bee
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2008, 09:57:01 AM »

I tried it. Can seem to get the bees to draw it enough to convert a whole colony. Sure this is probably my learning curve. I tried it during our flow --- guess I needed to feed also. When I do feed they fill what has been drawn w/feed and crowd out the queen.

I would like to go in that direction but no luck so far.
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2008, 11:26:34 AM »

Quote
When I do feed they fill what has been drawn w/feed and crowd out the queen.
So do mine.   Undecided
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« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2008, 08:03:48 PM »

Starting my 2nd year as a beek. I have used a few starter strips in brood and supers with nice straight comb. My question is if you use starter strips and have horizontal wires will they  build offset around the wires or would they build around the wires like the wires are normally embedded in the wax ?  BTW I do not care for the wax tube fastener and used a soldering iron to melt the wax for a while, but now I use a votive candle mold for a ladle and it works great to pour wax down the starter strip seam. You can easily tilt the frames to control the speed and amount of the wax that fills the voids.
Thanks
Regards
Mike
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2008, 10:05:51 PM »

Starting my 2nd year as a beek. I have used a few starter strips in brood and supers with nice straight comb. My question is if you use starter strips and have horizontal wires will they  build offset around the wires or would they build around the wires like the wires are normally embedded in the wax ?  BTW I do not care for the wax tube fastener and used a soldering iron to melt the wax for a while, but now I use a votive candle mold for a ladle and it works great to pour wax down the starter strip seam. You can easily tilt the frames to control the speed and amount of the wax that fills the voids.
Thanks
Regards
Mike

I've seen them build down to the wire and stop and I've seen them build all the way down to the bottom bar.  Depends on the bees, whether there is a flow or not, and a few indistict points.  Eventually those that stopped at the wire went back and finished drawing out the frame.

I don't use any wires to remove impediments and once the comb is seasoned or attached on 3 sides it is as strong as with wires anyway.
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« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2008, 08:11:27 AM »

My question is if you use starter strips and have horizontal wires will they  build offset around the wires or would they build around the wires like the wires are normally embedded in the wax ? 



If the hive is level, they will build the comb right around the wire without issue.  If the hive is not level, they will still build the comb perfectly vertical (or pretty close to it) and the wire may be offset in the comb.
 
I use wire in all my foundationless frames.  Once they get to the first wire,  you no longer have to worry about the comb breaking off from handling.  It has been my experience that it takes them forever (or at least quite a long time) to sufficiently attack comb to the sides and bottom of a frame.



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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2008, 09:03:01 AM »

Well  I only tried it once, on a single frame, of course the result was a frame of drone comb. Which I expect they must have felt they needed. I havn't looked at it lately. I think this year I will use starter strips. if it can be extracted after the fact. I don't want to do any crush and strain, I want the old comb for later use. As far as sorry I tried it , not at all. First year try anything, what works for you is what matters, an experienced beek told me "there is 100 ways to do it and there all correct."
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« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2008, 08:57:30 PM »

I have trench style TBH's that use starter strips.

I have some standard 19&7/8 by 16&1/4 boxes with only top bars, and I've heard of Tanzanian and Kenyan top bar hives.  What are "trench style" TBH's?
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BjornBee
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2008, 12:35:32 PM »

Ben,
You know this but let me state for other readers...

Traditional Kenyan are those TBH with sloped sides and Tanzanian are those with straight sides. Beyond that easy and quick definition, which I think leaves about a thousand other styles undefined, and mislabeled as such.

Throwing in other designs and trying to define what you have is almost certain to be incorrect. Some see beyond Kenyan as more than just sloped sides, and many see tanzanian more than anything with straight sides. Some have suggested that Tanzanains design calls for medium length comb, while some argue what the sloped sides should be defined for the Kenyan.

I have seen a few "trench style" TBH utilizing standard deep boxes either cut and joined or made with one piece of wood. I call my TBH that is made from standard deeps as a trench style design. It does not fit with some of the definitions of what a Tanzanian TBH is called, although it is made with straight sides.

I personally think there are many designs and for a simple classification of sloped or straight, Kenyan or Tanzanian can define that.

Here is a pic of my trench TBH, which I'm sure looks nothing like anything they are building in Tanzania...  Smiley

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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2008, 03:20:47 AM »

I did most of my chunk comb honey last year with popsicle stick guides in foundationless frames. It worked real well. I used 4 frames of comb foundation in the center of the super, with 3 of the foundationless frames on each side. As the frames were capped, I removed alternate frames and replaced with more foundationless frames. They were filled and capped quickly.
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2008, 02:48:14 PM »

should have had "not sure yet" as a choice.  some of my results were good.  some were not.  some was my fault.  some the bees.  jury is still out for me, but i'm not done with it yet.
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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2008, 08:36:19 AM »

I'm still in my first year of setting up here in Maryland. Resistance to foundationless here in major due to a very limited nectur flow. AFB and mites are affecting many big operations and I'm going to focus on being different. I will continue to keep an open mind. I WILL be using foundationless in my feral hives and will let you all know. The short time I have had I have found they prefer it over plastic hands.
I am alittle concerned about our short flow, the cost to feed outweighs foundation cost.
1 other note, Marrec has found that commercial foundation may contain some very nasty residual chemicals. Anyone else hear that? The levels were low but ANYTHING which could harm my girls is NOT WELCOME.

My question to MB is...can the Bees bring more harmful chemicals in BECAUSE they are making their own wax? Beeing a rookie I needed to ask that. PM me if you want to.
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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2008, 12:35:04 PM »

>My question to MB is...can the Bees bring more harmful chemicals in BECAUSE they are making their own wax? Beeing a rookie I needed to ask that. PM me if you want to.

Making their own wax is irrelevant to them bringing in anything.  But yes, there are pesticides out in the world outside the bee hive and they can bring them in.  But they are very minute compared to what beekeepers put in their beehives.
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Michael Bush
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