Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"  (Read 35374 times)

Offline T Beek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2775
  • Gender: Male
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #180 on: January 11, 2011, 09:31:10 AM »
 :roll: :roll: :roll:
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline luvin honey

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1540
  • Gender: Female
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #181 on: January 11, 2011, 09:37:08 AM »
"What you people don't seem to grasp"... Seriously?  :roll: First of all, organics "always was." Then it came back. Have you read the guidelines for certified organic vegetable production? Believe me, the guidelines are not meaningless. They talk about soil building, crop rotation, plant and animal diversity, composting, soil protection/erosion and much more. If the guidelines had no teeth, everyone and their brother would claim to be organic and certified. It's because it is such an intense and difficult process that many people haven't taken that step.

The only thing I agree with you on is that customers trust local. And sometimes that trust is misplaced. My fellow farmer's markets vendors claim to be organic all the time, then tell me about that one application of Sevin or Roundup. Hmmmm...

In MY particular situation, I belong to a larger CSA group. Once my sales reach a certain point, I must be certified to remain in the group. This membership allows my customers to get sizable health insurance rebates on their CSA shares. So while most of my farmer's market customers are happy based on a trust relationship, my CSA members will need me to get certified to maintain their rebates.

As for sugar in the hive, I guess beekeepers or beekeeping associations need to define their own organic standards and decide if that fits in there.
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline Acebird

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Just getting started
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #182 on: January 11, 2011, 10:14:35 AM »
Quote
First of all, organics "always was."


Organics as a certification no, organics as a method of farming yes.

Quote
Have you read the guidelines for certified organic vegetable production? Believe me, the guidelines are not meaningless. They talk about soil building, crop rotation, plant and animal diversity, composting, soil protection/erosion and much more.


As I said the consumer is educated.

Quote
My fellow farmer's markets vendors claim to be organic all the time, then tell me about that one application of Sevin or Roundup. Hmmmm...

Is this allowed in certification?  How long does it take to get the news out when you can just blast him on a public forum?

Quote
In MY particular situation, I belong to a larger CSA group. Once my sales reach a certain point, I must be certified to remain in the group. This membership allows my customers to get sizable health insurance rebates on their CSA shares. So while most of my farmer's market customers are happy based on a trust relationship, my CSA members will need me to get certified to maintain their rebates.

 Well now you are solidifying my argument.  As you get big you need to be regulated so the playing field is equal or near equal.  That won’t change what the educated consumer thinks about being big.

Quote
As for sugar in the hive, I guess beekeepers or beekeeping associations need to define their own organic standards and decide if that fits in there.
Quote

Thank you very much.
Never thought I would do it!

Offline Scadsobees

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3198
  • Gender: Male
  • Best use of smileys in a post award.
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #183 on: January 11, 2011, 11:01:08 AM »
This is all very funny!!

We're all arguing if treating with sugar counts as a chemical treatment!

Um...NEWSFLASH! HONEY IS a CHEMICAL!!

Chemical: a substance having a specific molecular composition, obtained by or used in a chemical process.

Yup...there is a process that the bees use to change sucrose into fructose.  Sucrose, fructose, glucose: all chemicals!  Not to mention all of the enzymes!

Soo...

Does feeding honey to the bees count as a chemical treatment? :roll:
Rick

Offline AllenF

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8192
  • Gender: Male
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #184 on: January 11, 2011, 11:04:26 AM »
A natural chemical treatment?

Offline luvin honey

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1540
  • Gender: Female
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #185 on: January 11, 2011, 11:05:42 AM »
My fellow market vendors are NOT certified. They are just saying they grow organic. That's the trusting relationship you refer to in local growers, but it's only as good as the person behind the words. I actually don't believe my fellow vendors are being dishonest. I believe they haven't read the guidelines for organic production.

Getting big and needing to be certified is probably more about not hurting the small farmers and not wasting time certifying people earning less than $5000/year in their operation. That's the cut-off--$5000/year. So, "big" is really a very relative term.

Actually, I give up. You are tilting at windmills that I can't even see and obviously not trying to hear what I am trying to say.


And scadsobees, you're right about chemicals. Water is a chemical. But I think we know that in a forum subgroup like this we are all thinking more of industrial chemicals. :)
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline fat/beeman

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Gender: Male
    • Dixie Bee Supply.com
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #186 on: January 11, 2011, 11:06:37 AM »


 WOW :roll:

Offline Robo

  • Technical
  • Administrator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 6503
  • Gender: Male
  • Beekeep On!
    • Robo's World
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #187 on: January 11, 2011, 12:00:36 PM »
DING, DING, DING,  We have a winner!   :piano:

This is all very funny!!

We're all arguing if treating with sugar counts as a chemical treatment!

Um...NEWSFLASH! HONEY IS a CHEMICAL!!

Chemical: a substance having a specific molecular composition, obtained by or used in a chemical process.

Yup...there is a process that the bees use to change sucrose into fructose.  Sucrose, fructose, glucose: all chemicals!  Not to mention all of the enzymes!

Soo...

Does feeding honey to the bees count as a chemical treatment? :roll:


My point is, if you are applying anything to your hive,  please don't say you are "chemical-free" :evil:
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline Acebird

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Just getting started
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #188 on: January 11, 2011, 03:22:57 PM »
Winners and losers that's what this forum is all about?

The first reply should have ended this discussion but it didn't.

Quote
My .02 is anything really 100% organic anymore? Stuffs in our water, air, food, feed, our homes our cars, our cats our dogs.

All we can do is our best in an imperfect world.
Never thought I would do it!

Offline Scadsobees

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3198
  • Gender: Male
  • Best use of smileys in a post award.
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #189 on: January 11, 2011, 04:08:56 PM »
And scadsobees, you're right about chemicals. Water is a chemical. But I think we know that in a forum subgroup like this we are all thinking more of industrial chemicals. :)

Most of us  ;).  This is about sugar, which I think we agree isn't an industrial chemical.

When "organic" becomes about not applying "sugar" to a hive, that's where most people start jumping off that bandwagon.
Rick

Offline luvin honey

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1540
  • Gender: Female
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2011, 01:02:57 AM »

(2) Provide supplemental feed from organic honey, organic sugar syrup, and/or pollen
substitutes and supplements that are allowed under 205.603, Except, That, the producer
must not provide organic sugar syrup less than 30 days prior to the harvest of honey to be
sold, labeled, or represented as organic.


Sounds like sugar is allowed, as long as it is organic. With organic vegetable production, it seeks to mimic nature as much as possible. I guess if I were to be a hard-core organic beek, I would ask if it's okay to pull so much honey on a consistent basis that I would need to feed the bees sugar syrup. Course, I'd have to be getting a pretty steep price for their honey to be able to afford to feed them organic sugar syrup!
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline Acebird

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Just getting started
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2011, 07:11:56 PM »
Looking online I saw a price for Organic sugar @ 2.50 a pound and Organic honey @ 1.25 a pound.  It doesn't make sense to feed with those numbers.
Never thought I would do it!

Offline hardwood

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3482
  • Gender: Male
  • Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2011, 07:55:35 PM »
Organic honey at $1.25/lb is highly suspect...buyer beware!

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline Acebird

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Just getting started
Never thought I would do it!

Offline hardwood

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3482
  • Gender: Male
  • Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2011, 11:10:32 AM »
That actually works out to a little over $2/lb....that's still a very low price for retail.

Scotty
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline luvin honey

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1540
  • Gender: Female
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2011, 01:50:52 PM »
Yikes--that's crazy low! My friend has been getting at least $6/lb for her treatment-free, raw honey from last year, but it's definitely not organic.
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline hardwood

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 3482
  • Gender: Male
  • Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2011, 02:15:19 PM »
It was pointed out to me that this is not organic honey...read the first review. I'm sure that it has been pasteurized as well taking all the benefit away.

Like I said...buyer beware.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline T Beek

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2775
  • Gender: Male
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2011, 02:16:58 PM »
Must consider the source, and if none is if provided, I wouldn't buy it.  

I'd Like to know what is really in a jar of it though.

thomas
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Acebird

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
  • Just getting started
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2011, 02:43:47 PM »
Quote
That actually works out to a little over $2/lb....

We put our honey is quart Ball jars and I weighed them to be 4.9 pounds net.  What is the conversion suppose to be?
Never thought I would do it!

Offline rdy-b

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2258
Re: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"
« Reply #199 on: January 13, 2011, 03:04:52 PM »
That actually works out to a little over $2/lb....that's still a very low price for retail.

Scotty
  32 oz jar looks to me its 2lb-- so it $3 a pound any way you are right thats not organic - :) RDY-B

 

anything