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Author Topic: For those who think treating with sugar is "Non-Chemical"  (Read 28376 times)
T Beek
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« Reply #100 on: January 03, 2011, 12:21:45 PM »

mEXICAN bAMBOO DOES FINE IN ZONE 2 (two)

THOMAS

 embarassed that darn cap button is stuck again
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 01:07:30 PM by T Beek » Logged

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« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2011, 12:28:43 PM »

errrr....you needed $900 in compost in a hurry to "care for your bees"?  10 hours of reading on your part would do your bees much more good than the compost you spread.

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2011, 01:02:08 PM »


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And a vegetable garden, while it may benefit from the bees, is worthless to the bees unless you plant all brassica family plants and let them go to flower, or all sunflowers.


They worked the broccoli clear into November this year.  Sun flowers, black eyed susans, and a host of other flowering plants I don't know the name of.  Ask my wife.

Quote
Don't assume that a few acres of flowers that you plant will necessarily do anything to keep the bees alive either.  It may help a little, but bees need many many acres or a lot of trees.


There are still 4 acres of trees left on this commercial property and a raging creek.  The bees have plenty without our help, we just don't want them to go to parts unknown, especially the apple orchards and golf courses near by.


Yup, broccoli is a brassicafamily plant.  But 1 long row of flowering broccoli will net you a frame of honey, or two.  That is why I mentioned the whole garden full.  I repeat: most gardens (especially cucurbits, tomatoes, corn, any veggie that is picked before flowering) are worthless for bees.  But worthwhile for people.

I don't recall ever seeing any bees on my shasta daisies.  I guess they have more better pickin's elsewhere.

If you think that your few acres will support much in the way of bees, and that it will keep the bees from going to the orchards and the golf course, you are mistaken.  Draw a circle on a map a half mile around your hives, and that is where your bees are.  Maybe even further.  If the golf course and orchard are in that line, there your bees are also.

Rick
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T Beek
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« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2011, 01:10:16 PM »

 :-DHow far are you willing to travel for compost?  Got some A-1 stuff here, and I'll give it up free, since I got plenty.

thomas
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Acebird
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« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2011, 02:31:25 PM »

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But 1 long row of flowering broccoli will net you a frame of honey, or two.


Ooh I like these numbers.  That means I could fill up my whole hive with one acre of broccoli alone.

I am almost safe with the 1/2 mi. figure.  I like that too.  Got any more good tidbits, I'm still listening?
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« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2011, 02:36:40 PM »

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you needed $900 in compost in a hurry to "care for your bees

We needed it to establish a vegetable garden and some for the others gardens as well.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2011, 02:51:36 PM »

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But 1 long row of flowering broccoli will net you a frame of honey, or two.


Ooh I like these numbers.  That means I could fill up my whole hive with one acre of broccoli alone.

I am almost safe with the 1/2 mi. figure.  I like that too.  Got any more good tidbits, I'm still listening?

That is a lot of broccoli Wink.  You can also fill up a hive with a few acres of buckwheat or goldenrod too...weather permitting!!

The 1/2 mile is conservative...if it is a dry year, they go as far as they need to.  Not so safe then with a well watered golf course just right there... Wink

The whole theme here is weather weather weather.  If you get a drought and see the empty hives, you'll be tempted to break out the sugar.... 

If you want more than a few hives and want some hive increase, it sure is simple to feed them a bunch of syrup for a big buildup.  To just dismiss sugar, another tool in the beekeeping toolbox, is imho, very ignorant.  Give it a few years, then make up your mind.

BTW, if you mow down the gardens and burn the woods, it would hinder the bees a little bit.  Mostly from the smoke  Wink. But they are good at flying, and love the flowers in the highway median and along side of the highway (which I think I saw in your pictures). 
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« Reply #107 on: January 03, 2011, 03:16:46 PM »

Drought is the least of our concerns, floods maybe, but not drought.  The reason why we have so many good golf courses here is because you don't have to irrigate.  There aren't too many places in the country where that is true.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2011, 05:22:36 PM »

Don't assume that a few acres of flowers that you plant will necessarily do anything to keep the bees alive either.  It may help a little, but bees need many many acres or a lot of trees.
And a vegetable garden, while it may benefit from the bees, is worthless to the bees unless you plant all brassica family plants and let them go to flower, or all sunflowers.

a hot month without rain will make all that completely worthless and the hives empty.  At that point, in that year, it's either feed them or let all the hard work with genetics and breeding go to waste.  You can be a purist and hope that a few survive, or you can protect them and keep what good you have already.

Then there's always the question of how much to take when.  I usually harvest in the beginning of August, that leaves 2.5 months for them to collect.  Some years they'll put a ton away after that, last year they did squat, so I had to feed sugar.  Sure is hard predicting the future, especially after a perfect sunny, wet enough summer.  If I collect the honey too soon I'll have packed hives swarming by the end of august some years, some years not. 
  this hits the nail right on the head-RDY-B
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Acebird
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« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2011, 06:50:29 PM »

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Then there's always the question of how much to take when. I usually harvest in the beginning of August, that leaves 2.5 months for them to collect. Some years they'll put a ton away after that, last year they did squat, so I had to feed sugar. Sure is hard predicting the future, especially after a perfect sunny, wet enough summer. If I collect the honey too soon I'll have packed hives swarming by the end of august some years, some years not.



I would love to see this as a separate topic and get everyone’s views on the subject.

We took the two supers off at the end of the season and left the two deeps as the hive’s stores.  The first hive that we had never produced any honey in the top supers so all we did is take them off and add the feeder.

We were told that the two bottom deeps were all the bees needed to survive the winter.  Based on the last years dead hive this is true.  Honey stores were not a problem.

What is your experience?

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hardwood
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« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2011, 07:05:54 PM »

Acebird, use the search function and you'll find that this topic has been discussed many times.

Scott
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« Reply #111 on: January 03, 2011, 10:27:09 PM »

We were told that the two bottom deeps were all the bees needed to survive the winter.  Based on the last years dead hive this is true.  Honey stores were not a problem.

What is your experience?

True -- IF you take off those supers in the first part of august.  AND if you get a good fall flow.

False -- if you take off those supers after august OR if you dont' get a good fall flow.

That's my point...every year is different.  This year the fall flow was shockingly low, despite having a wet enough summer, well producing summer.  But I've had other summers where by the end of august those two deeps(or 1 deep) are stuffed full past capacity.

It is much simpler and easier to mix up a few gallons of 1:1 or 2:1 in September and have them suck that down and still have time to cure it than it is to mess around with putting honey on there.  And still be healthy going into winter.

I'll also give them a few scoops of crystallized honey during the winter if they seem to be getting low.
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Rick
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« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2011, 09:31:10 AM »

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False -- if you take off those supers after august OR if you dont' get a good fall flow.

I can't comprehend this logic.  If the supers are crammed to the hilt in October why would the deeps be empty?  Are you saying take the supers off in August and prepare for winter.  That makes no sense at all up here.  Nobody prepares for winter up here in August.
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T Beek
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« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2011, 10:35:52 AM »

August is a "great" time to prepare for winter, if not sooner, your job is to have them strong with "plenty" (more is better than less) of stores.  Kinda hard to start making sure of that in October, so August does present Northern beeks with some judgement based decision making in preparation for the season to come.  

In contrast I'll purchase all my gardens seeds in January in "preparation" for the season to come grin.  

thomas

I'll also have all my winter firewood stacked up and under cover by August, my own little tradition.

This thread is getting very long and distorted some from the original post doncha think? Smiley
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2011, 10:44:41 AM »

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False -- if you take off those supers after august OR if you dont' get a good fall flow.

I can't comprehend this logic.  If the supers are crammed to the hilt in October why would the deeps be empty?  Are you saying take the supers off in August and prepare for winter.  That makes no sense at all up here.  Nobody prepares for winter up here in August.

The bees store honey from top down.  So in October, yes, the supers could be full, but you might only have 20 lbs of honey in your top deep and your bottom deep be empty.  You do need to prepare for winter in August, unless you want to feed them.  I don't like to feed if I can help it, sugar gets expensive, and I hate to feed back honey after I did all that work of extracting.

August is the best time to prepare for winter when it comes to bees.  October is too late.  ESPECIALLY up there.

Some places do have great fall flows.  But I don't get much here.
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Rick
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« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2011, 11:35:47 AM »

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The bees store honey from top down.  So in October, yes, the supers could be full, but you might only have 20 lbs of honey in your top deep and your bottom deep be empty.

Well it is going to be an interesting Spring...

We forced the bees to do the opposite.  We added supers only after the one below was full.  Both seasons we had a hard time getting them to go into the super to begin with.  Someone told us to remove the queen extruder and so we did.  That made a huge difference.  When we took the supers off in October there was no brood in them, just honey.

What is going to happen if you remove the supers in August and the deeps are crammed full?  Doesn't that force them to swarm?
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T Beek
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« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2011, 11:46:48 AM »

go back a few posts on this thread to Scadsobees advise, review, save for future, review again:-D

thomas
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« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2011, 01:17:05 PM »


We forced the bees to do the opposite.  We added supers only after the one below was full.  Both seasons we had a hard time getting them to go into the super to begin with.  Someone told us to remove the queen extruder and so we did.  That made a huge difference.  When we took the supers off in October there was no brood in them, just honey.

What is going to happen if you remove the supers in August and the deeps are crammed full?  Doesn't that force them to swarm?

You can add supers to the top, in fact you want to unless you have foundation, then you want the frames drawn properly before adding another.  But the difference is in the spring and summer they are revving up, while later summer they are revving down.

Everybody's flow is different.  That is my experience, although it sounds similar to yours. If the fall flow is really great, throw a super or two on.  At least at that point you'll know you have at least one deep of honey.  And yes, they can swarm then, but you can rest assured the hive is going into the winter with a strong new queen grin
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« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2011, 07:10:13 PM »

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,31005.new.html#new

This guy (book) says take the honey in the fall.  Look at the chart.
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« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2011, 07:34:02 PM »

That guy is in BC also.   Every bodies flow is different.  Here in North Georgia our main flow is over by July (Harvest then) with a little flow (goldenrod) right before frost kills everything for the bees to get a little stores for winter.
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