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Author Topic: Global poll slams Bush leadership  (Read 4318 times)
asleitch
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« on: January 19, 2005, 05:52:56 AM »

Quote from: BBC World Service

Global poll slams Bush leadership
George W Bush
Negative feelings for Mr Bush extended to Americans as a whole
More than half of people surveyed in a BBC World Service poll say the re-election of US President George W Bush has made the world more dangerous.

Only three countries - India, Poland and the Philippines - out of 21 polled believed the world was now safer.

The survey found that 47% of the 21,953 people questioned now see US influence in the world as largely negative, and view Americans negatively as well.

None of the countries polled supported contributing their troops to Iraq.

"This is quite a grim picture for the US," said Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA), which carried out the poll with GlobeScan.

   
There may be some underlying openness to repairing relations with the US" Steven Kull

"Negative feelings about Bush are high and are generalising to the American people who re-elected him."

On average across all countries, 58% of people - and 16 out of 21 countries polled - said they believed Mr Bush's re-election to the White House made the world more dangerous.

Traditional allies

Most negative feelings were found in Western European, Latin American and Muslim countries.

They include traditional US allies such as Germany, France, Britain and Italy as well as neighbours Canada and Mexico.

   
Read key points and see graphs from the World Service poll.

The only European country to buck the trend was Poland, one of the new members of the European Union, which gave the thumbs up to both President Bush and the US.

Turkey topped the anti-Bush list, with 82% believing his re-election would be negative for global security.

The result is bad news for the president as Turkey is a US ally and the only Muslim member of Nato, says the BBC's Chris Morris in Brussels.

Other predominantly Muslim countries - Indonesia and Lebanon - were also high up the list.

But, any warmer feelings in Indonesia towards the US following its tsunami relief operations would not show up as the poll was carried out before the disaster struck, says the BBC's Dan Isaacs.

Economic boom

Anti-Bush sentiments also appeared to be strong in Latin America. Argentina, with 79%, and Brazil, with 78%, follow Turkey in the list.

This seems surprising given that the region has had less direct involvement in US foreign policy issues, says our correspondent.

Another surprise was India's support for Mr Bush. The poll found 62% believed his administration was positive for global security.

The BBC's Nick Bryant says the reason for this may be because the poll was carried out in cities where people have benefited economically from closer trade ties with the US.

Doug Miller, President of Globescan, said the findings "supports the view of some Americans that unless his administration changes its approach to world affairs in its second term, it will continue to erode America's good name, and hence its ability to effectively influence world affairs".

But Mr Kull says the results do not constitute a definitive world-wide majority, "suggesting there may be some underlying openness to repairing relations with the US".

PIPA interviewed between 500 and 1,800 people in each of the 21 countries surveyed, plus 1,000 Americans, in face-to-face or telephone interviews.

The interviews took place between 15 November 2004 and 5 January 2005.

The margin of error is between 2.5 and 4 points, depending on the country.



Interesting stuff eh? Seems to very much contradict the view America has internally that the re-election of Bush and the "war on terror" makes the world a safer place. The rest of the world seems to think it is now a less safe place.

Me, I'm not commenting either way, just thought it makes interesting reading!  smiley

Adam

PS: I thought this would be good "Coffee Forum" reading, given we have an broad selection of internation members. Don't flame me, its a poll undertaken by the BBC world service! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4185205.stm
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2005, 06:24:02 AM »

I'll be replying when I get to work. I have to go in a few hours today Smiley

The big line there was: NONE OF THESE COUNTRIES SUPPORT THE WAR IN IRAQ. More (no doubt) to come Smiley


You know what.... This piece of BBC toilet paper isn't worth.... well you know the rest.

8 years ago when all the leftists of this country shouted at Clinton's reelection, I sat supporting the President - shame the left can't get over NOT controlling the Whitehouse.

And foreign Polls - Maybe it's me, but let's take American Troops out of EVERY country we assist and see how long democracy lasts in them.

Lastly, don't even go there with MUSLEM POLLS - that's like asking the Jews how they like the Palastine Leader. Polls are foolish and only tell the story you want to hear.

The only poll I want to hear is how well is GW doing in American Polls and how well is our economy coming back after being attacked on our soil on 9-11, just months after Clinton and his boy-toy Janet Reno broke Microsoft apart - sending the US and world economy into a tailspin by killing the tech sector which drove the greatest economy in the history of the world.

I'm done. See how much time I saved myself - but I'm late for work.
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2005, 04:35:13 PM »

Quote
None of the countries polled supported contributing their troops to Iraq.


Exactly the same quote that stuck in my craw BeeMaster!

I find it odd that an international poll purporting to be unbiased would seek respondents only in countries not contributing troops to the war in Iraq.  The BBC may be building a case in its apparent on-going vendetta with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

It would be interesting to know exactly how the polling company, which claims to have interviewed more than 22,000 respondents world-wide (a staggering number and very, very expensive to do) qualified these people.  For example, when polls are conducted in Canada, they are mostly done over the telephone and one is qualified or disqualified after a short series of questions up front.  Was this procedure followed in the moslem countries and in South America as well?  I  highly doubt it.

I appreciate very much that the sacrifices being made by my American neighbours (that's the way we spell it here) will make the world a safer place for my children and grandchildren.

Thanks for the article Adam.
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2005, 05:24:17 PM »

I always enjoy polling - the fact that "statistically" they are useful is ALWAYS outwayed by their inevitable inaccuracies and bias.

To Quote my Father "Polls are like Democrats.... Everyone has one!" I'll let you figure that one out, but he was a good punsters and very capable of twisting a "quotable" into a memorable piece of yarn Smiley

My favorite quote of his was "The more you know, the more you know, you don't know!" and boy does that describe polls.

You can get "any conclusion you seek" by polling those who agree with your anticipated conclusion. I know MANY members of this forum who disagree with the thought (or theory) that "If you harbor a terrorist, then you are a terrorist" but apply that thought to the above mentioned poll and you will likely see many of the "polled people" who qualify as The Enemy of the US.

And I've been told that I pick on the useless French too much too. But I think it is insulting to classify them as European. Calling the French, European is like calling a cockroach a swan - it is an insult to the rest of Europe. I always wondered where the French run when you turn on the light?

Yes, I love this country, and I'm blessed to live here. I not only survive here, but thrive here and my ability to succeed is in MY HANDS, not in the hands of the government - as so many people have been taught to believe these days.

( I just edited out 3 paragraphs - I'll hate myself later for doing so, but I figure it best to NOT go there - lol )

Way to many people in this country have grown up with the idea that the government is the bottomless paycheck that they can feed from. Yes, I'm talking about those 4th generation, 40 year old great grandmothers and their 12 baby daddies again. A creature that the "Left" has built from the spare parts of living and breathing human beings. We are economically being crippled by capable workers who chose to milk our taxes until the cash cow colapses into a vacuum.

But even these miserable sub-species are better than the French  rolleyes  

So, no - the poll isn't upsetting to me - it's just more digital toilet paper to flush down the Internet. But meanwhile we go further into debt while everyone who hates our guts have their hands out for more cash. That's the one problem I have with our country, we are too generous  - even when the world yells at how CHEAP and stingy we are, we still dish out the money and military support. Sure, why not - we'll just print up some more cash and pass the debt on to our cheap and stingy children.

I'd love to see the money we use (waste is probably a better word) on countries that are capable of handling their own affairs, go to educating our own kids. Imagine if all the countries who REALLY DIDN'T NEED the money we give them, hand it back to us and say "Thanks, but use this to feed or better educate your own people."  Talk about NO KID LEFT BEHIND!!! But, this ain't Disney Land and I ain't Mickey Mouse - we'll keep on writing the checks and they'll keep on calling us names and the Earth will revolve around the Sun until the End of Days.
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asleitch
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2005, 05:45:37 PM »

Quote from: Sting
Quote
None of the countries polled supported contributing their troops to Iraq.


Exactly the same quote that stuck in my craw BeeMaster!

I find it odd that an international poll purporting to be unbiased would seek respondents only in countries not contributing troops to the war in Iraq.  


Eh?

Quote
Most negative feelings were found in Western European, Latin American and Muslim countries.

They include traditional US allies such as Germany, France, Britain and Italy as well as neighbours Canada and Mexico.


They polled us British!? And didn't Turkey supply airbases?

I meant for the post to be about Bush, rather than Iraq specifically. Britian has troops there, and the general public that I know matches the results from the UK part of the poll, e.g 64% of British people think "Bush's reelection will have a negative effect for peace and security of the world"

ALso, I think you have misread this

Quote
"None of the countries polled supported contributing their troops to Iraq. "


Isn't that they only polled countries that didn't offer troops (and hence, I'd agree in that case it would be biased) but that every country polled didn't support sending their troops, even Britian and Canada for example.

As a Canadian, 67% of your fellow countrymen were of the opinion that Bush's relection was a negative,

Detailed information about the poll, and the polling company is available here:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/BBCworldpoll/html/more_01_19_05.html#1

Thats a lot of countries, and a good sample size, and lots of information about the type of poll, and how it was conducted.

See I think the information in the poll is very interesting, and definately warrants a good read.  Ironically, the company organising the poll is based in America!

Quote
PIPA is a joint program of the Center on Policy Attitudes (COPA) and the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland (CISSM), School of Public Affairs, University of Maryland.


I'm trying not to make personal comment on it, I'm interested in how Americans see themselves portrayed to the wider world, and how they think the wider world sees them.

Interesting.
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asleitch
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2005, 05:57:13 PM »

So I can see where John sits in this topic! John, your post reminds me of this that I saw recently: (It's always attibuted to Bill Gates but I think thats considered an urban Myth now.....) So...taking this very off topic form the original posting,

I think #5 is the best of the lot myself.....



Rule 1: Life is not fair -- get used to it!



Rule 2: The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will

expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.



Rule 3: You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You

won't be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.



Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.



Rule 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents

had a different word for burger flipping -- they called it opportunity.



Rule 6: If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine

about your mistakes, learn from them.



Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are

now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and

listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before

you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation,

try delousing the closet in your own room!



Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life

HAS NOT. In some schools they have abolished failing grades and they'll

give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't

bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.



Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off

and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do

that on your own time.



Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have

to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.



Rule 11: Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2005, 06:45:10 PM »

I have had polls come in the maik or some over the phone. There are a lot of questions in those polls that I just can't answer because of the way it is worded.

One example, A question on a poll from the NRA (National Rifle Association.)

Something like "do I think people should be able to obtain a concealed hand gun license?" not exact wording but its about the same.

I can not answer that question with a yes or no answer. OK I'm sure someone out there wants to know why I can't.

We Americans have the right to carry guns, (look up the second amendment)

I have to also wonder. Did anyone ever give reasons why they thought Bush was dangerous?
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Kris^
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2005, 08:40:32 PM »

Quote from: asleitch
So...taking this very off topic form the original posting,



The most apropos quote:

"Every nation has the government that it deserves."
~Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821)


The most recent American poll I saw was today's CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, in which 49% consider W a "uniter" and 49% consider him a "divider."  Thing is, I'm beginning to wonder whether W is a cause (not the only one) of our national division, or a just symptom of how divided we have become.

-- Kris
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2005, 08:58:17 PM »

I have a personal rule which I live by in this and every forum - if you (the reader of this post) have read my long-winded 2000 word essays before, you should have noticed I never reply negatively to a person, only to the topic at hand.

Flamming isn't in my blood and against my Three Simple Rules, although I bet I'd be pretty good at it  shocked  But arguing a point on any issue is always lively and fun - and unless specified otherwise - it should be taken lightly.

This political poll for example, I take it not as something "Asleitch" posted, but just a post. Who posts any topic (especially in the Coffee House - where I expect and participate in opinionated debate) always makes for lively conversation.

Now that I think about it, I doubt I actually addressed any of the poll issues. Mainly because it is like someone polling me on how well I thing Fidel Castro is doing - I don't see where my opinion would matter either way, so it is a moot poll.

Personally, I'm proud to have a President that isn't overly concerned about how OTHER COUNTRIES preceive him - Any Leader should have his/her country's best issues in mind first and foremost. This isn't American Idol and (no disrespect intended) I don't give a rat's behind HOW the rest of the world preceives how well GWB is doing - sorry but we aren't a ONE WORLD ORDER yet and hopefully never will be.

As I've said before, if on September 11th, 2001 (God forbid) the hijacked planes flew into the United Nations Building, I think the opinion of GWB would be very different. But that attack was on Capitolism and the destruction of worlds most recognised skyline. And today, so much of the world trashes our President for doing whatever it takes to see that it does not ever happen again: not to us, not to you, not anywhere.

So all you polled Bush haters who feel the world is LESS SAFE because of George Bush - what is the answer??? You got some magic cure for the hatred in the world or are you just happy poking sticks at the guys on the side or Morality.

I suppose we should publish all covert operations too - after all, there is freedom of the press. Maybe well put beacons and strobe lights on all our soldiers, pass out a few more weapons to the Iraquies (just to make it fair) and send Bush on a "Feel the Love" World Tour to boost his ratings.

First, he can go to France, that way by time he gets home 10 months later, most of the stink will be off of him - of course he may not be able to land in Paris, unless Iran or Pakistan okay it first - and then off to Isreal, where we have paid Billions to that "Repulican hating" country. They love American money, weapons, technology and the Democrat Party.

The true friends and allies of the United States aren't there for a hand-out, they understand our thinking and the goal to have a peaceful and safer planet - and they help as best they can because they know it is a LONG TERM MISSION - something that may take countless generations, but as humans evolve, I think it's possible to make a significent difference.

Many of the other "friends", we have bought in one fashion or another and they are the ones who are fair weather friends, the kind that pat you on the back until you turn around and then they shoot you the finger.

I don't want to be loved by the world, there is a lot of EVIL in the world and WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND wants to be loved by EVIL? I just want WHO EVER sits in the Whitehouse to ALWAYS head the country in a moral and rightious path - and attempting to lessen evil's grip on us all is a great place to start.
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asleitch
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2005, 03:31:28 AM »

So what about everyone else? Does it bother you that Bush is not liked abroad? Do you care? Do you think it's jealousy on behalf of other nations? Do you think it's just a case of poor Public Relations on behalf of GW_Bush.

After all, it could be nothing more than politicans in other countries trying to win public support by taking an anti-american stance? And influincing their national press?

Does it interest you at all?

Like John says, I tried to present the data in a way in which you would read it independently and form your own view. A perfect coffee house discussion. LOL.

Adam
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2005, 06:37:33 AM »

Perhaps I didn't mention it but no i really don't care what other countries think about the USA. And  that goes the other way also, I don't care what the USA feels about other countries.

If some country somewhere has immoral leaders and everybody likes them doesn't mean I have to like them. If that country has the opposite kind of leader and everybody hates them, doesn't mean I have to hate them also.

But I will ask again, How is Bush making the world more dangerous?

I heard something about someone suspected of smuggling in components for a dirty bomb into the USA yesterday. I wasn't in a place to really get to hear that bit of news. Anybody else hear that? Was that G.W.B. trying to slip that into the country? I don't think so. But the person got caught because of Home Land Security I guess. OHHHH That's it!!!! Because they can't get in here to blow things up, they will go do it somewhere else. Probably anywhere they can find Americans. SO it ain't Bush, it's the Americans that travel Abroad.

Sorry for drifting, Adult ADD I guess.
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2005, 06:45:45 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
I heard something about someone suspected of smuggling in components for a dirty bomb into the USA yesterday. I wasn't in a place to really get to hear that bit of news. Anybody else hear that? Was that G.W.B. trying to slip that into the country?


I think you mean this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4190159.stm


FBI hunts Chinese 'terror gang'
From left, clockwise: Guozhi Lin, Wen Quin Zheng, Zengrong Lin, Xiujin Chen
The four Chinese nationals were thought to be heading to Boston
The FBI wants to question four Chinese nationals amid fears of a plot to explode a "dirty bomb" in Boston.

Police and FBI agents in Massachusetts were issued with photographs of two men and two women wanted in connection with an "unspecified threat".

Earlier on Wednesday US TV networks reported that agents with radiological sensors were on patrol in Boston.

The FBI and city officials in Boston played down fears, saying reports of a dirty bomb were "uncorroborated".

The four Chinese were named as Zengrong Lin, Wen Quin Zheng, Xiujin Chen and Guozhi Lin.
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2005, 06:57:37 AM »

Yep I heard Boston mentioned.
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2005, 09:25:38 AM »

While I support our president, I abhor how he routinely ignores the Constitution and am very unhappy with his apparent lack of concern for the enviroment.

I firmly believe that the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights to the most important documents ever produced by man. And that any president who ignores that will be reviled by history.

As beekeepers we all seem to be enviromentally friendly types.
I can't see how one can support the president there either.

Also he has killed the dollar vs gold, never a good thing and a precusor to inflatiion.
read further
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst120604.htm
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2005, 10:41:23 AM »

Hey Bigrog where you been? They have been preaching that since the 1990s. Never heard of the militia movement? That was one of their concerns. The Republic of Texas people, if they ever liberated Texas from the USA, were going to go with gold and silver currency. This is not new and there fore can not be blamed on Bush. We can blame him for not correcting the problem I suppose. And if you are refering to me as one that supports the president.... well I just sort of sit on the fence and say "At least it ain't Clinton.
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2005, 10:44:16 AM »

Bigrog, I just reread my post and can see how one might take offense to it. I was not jumping down your throat. Just carrying on the discussion. Should learn to use Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  more I guess.
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BigRog
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2005, 11:33:23 AM »

No offense taken, I think I know you better than that.

What that article is about is the relationship of the dollar to gold and what effect the deficit has on it. This I feel is the most important line in there "Since 2000, the dollar has lost 30% of its value. " This is not going to have a good effect on our quality of life.
Sorry I respect the office of president but I am not a fan of George Bush.
He is trying to blame the deficit on the war in Iraq. Fully 2/3 of it is from his tax cuts. You do not cut your income when you expenses are going to be greater. Any responsible adult knows this.
He has raided the SS fund and it is gone that is why SS needs "fixin"


As disturbing and slanted as this might sound spend the time and read this. It is all documented and very telling.
http://www.bushlies.net/pages/10/
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2005, 11:44:24 AM »

BTW the only candidate I felt was worth a darn was Badarick.
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2005, 12:59:55 PM »

Where have all the Abe Lincoln's gone?  Are there no more men like these who don't have a personal adjenda but only want to see the betterment of the country? It seems to me that anyone worth having doesn't want the job, and anyone who wants the job isn't worth having!!  What's goin' on here? huh
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2005, 01:28:36 PM »

I normally don't do lengthy c&p but I felt this was on topic and you would have to register to read it on the NY Times site.  - BigRog

Public Voicing Doubts on Iraq and the Economy, Poll Finds
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and JANET ELDER

Published: January 20, 2005


On the eve of President Bush's second inauguration, most Americans say they do not expect the economy to improve or American troops to be withdrawn from Iraq by the time Mr. Bush leaves the White House, and many have reservations about his signature plan to overhaul Social Security, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.


 
Seventy percent, however, said they thought Mr. Bush would succeed in changing the Social Security system. The poll found that 43 percent of respondents expect most forms of abortion to be illegal by the time Mr. Bush leaves the White House, given Mr. Bush's expected appointments to the Supreme Court.

The Times/CBS News Poll offered the kind of conflicting portrait of the nation's view of Mr. Bush that was evident throughout last year's presidential campaign. Nearly 60 percent of respondents said they were generally optimistic on the eve of Mr. Bush's swearing-in about the next four years, but clear majorities disapproved of Mr. Bush's management of the economy and the war in Iraq.

Nearly two-thirds said a second Bush term would leave the country with a larger deficit, while 47 percent said that a second Bush term would divide Americans. A majority of those surveyed said that they did not expect any improvement in health care, education, or in reducing the cost of prescription drugs for the elderly by January 2009.

Just under 80 percent, including a majority of those who said they voted for Mr. Bush in November, said it would not be possible to overhaul Social Security, cut taxes, and finance the war in Iraq without increasing the budget deficit, despite Mr. Bush's promises to the contrary.

The findings, coming after a tensely competitive election, suggest that Mr. Bush does not have broad popular support as he embarks on what the White House has signaled would be an extraordinarily ambitious second term, which in many ways will commence with Mr. Bush's swearing-in and speech on Thursday. That could undermine his leverage in Congress, where even some Republicans have expressed concern about major aspects of Mr. Bush's Social Security plans.

Mr. Bush's job approval rating is at 49 percent as he heads into his second term - significantly lower than the ratings at the start of the second terms of the last two presidents who served eight years, Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan. And 56 percent said the country has gone off on the wrong track, about as bad a rating Mr. Bush has received on this measure since entering the White House.

Still, as Mr. Bush enters what the White House views as a critical two-year window before his power begins to wane, the poll suggests that Mr. Bush's effort to lay the groundwork to reshape the Social Security system has had some success.

Fifty percent said Social Security is in crisis, echoing an assertion that Mr. Bush has made and that has been disputed by Democrats and independent analysts.

Answering another question, 51 percent said that while there were good things about Social Security, the system needed "fundamental changes," while 24 percent said it needed a complete overhaul.

But 50 percent said it was a "bad idea" to permit workers to divert part of their payroll taxes into the stock market, as Mr. Bush is expected to propose. That number leaps to 70 percent when the question includes the possibility that future guaranteed benefits would be reduced by as much as one-third.

Nearly 60 percent of respondents said they were not likely to put their own Social Security money into the stock market, and a majority said that in pushing for a Social Security overhaul, Mr. Bush was more interested in helping Wall Street than protecting the average American.

"I think it's a bad idea," said Tina DeSantis, 46, of Pennsylvania, who identified herself as a Republican. "People that I've encountered don't necessarily have the tools necessary to make proper decisions with them and end up losing money."

And Ilene Bernards, 46, a Republican from Clinton, Utah, said she feared that permitting people to invest in private accounts would end up destabilizing the system.

We would be farther in the hole than we already are with Social Security, because at some point if people use their money and lose it and they're old, then somebody is still going to have to take care of them," Ms. Bernards said.

The nationwide telephone poll was taken Friday through Tuesday with 1,118 adults, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points.

 
The poll suggests that in some ways, many Americans are expecting Mr. Bush to succeed in making major changes in the political landscape over the next four years.

That is most notable on the question of abortion; 71 percent expect Mr. Bush to appoint Supreme Court justices who will vote to outlaw abortion.

A majority of Americans, 71 percent, support some forms of legal abortion, albeit some with more restrictions than now exist.

Tony Rhoden, 53, an independent from Queens, said of the president regarding abortion: "He is against it, so obviously whatever judges he picks are going to be ruling in his favor. He wants someone who thinks the way he does. It seems to me that with everybody he's putting into place whatever he wants, they're going to get for him."

The poll also found that concern about the war in Iraq is rising: 75 percent said Mr. Bush had no clear plan for getting out of Iraq, a sharp jump up from 58 percent last fall, and a majority said that he routinely exaggerated conditions there.

And 75 percent said they believe a significant number of American troops will still be stationed in Iraq when Mr. Bush leaves the presidency.

The poll also found that 53 percent of Americans think the war in Iraq will not have been worth the loss of American life if unconventional weapons are never found.

A majority of respondents said that Iraq, which has been plagued by violence over the last week, is not secure enough to proceed with elections in two weeks, as scheduled.

However, the respondents are divided over whether the elections should be postponed in the hope of some sense of order being restored there.

In any event, only 15 percent of respondents said that elections would produce a decline in violence in Iraq; 40 percent said it would create more violence.

Respondents do not appear to share Mr. Bush's concern about the urgency of the Social Security problem, in the context of other problems facing the nation.

Asked to name the most important problem facing the country, just 3 percent named Social Security, while 11 percent named Iraq and Osama bin Laden, and 10 percent identified "war" and the economy.

Still, 54 percent of respondents said they do not expect the Social Security system to have enough money to pay them pensions when they retire, a figure that has not varied much since the Times/CBS News Poll started asking the question in 1981.

And younger people were much more likely to support the change Mr. Bush is seeking than older Americans.

On taxes, another area where the Bush administration is expected to make a major effort over the next four years, 54 percent said investment and interest income should be taxed at the same rate as wages.

Republicans have been moving to reduce the tax on investments and interest as a way of overhauling the tax system and encouraging business investment.

At the same time, by a margin of 47 to 40 percent, Americans think that temporary tax cuts that were passed in 2001, and are due to expire this year, should be made permanent.
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"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
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