Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 01, 2014, 02:42:56 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: My head hurts  (Read 9536 times)
asleitch
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 203


Location: UK


« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2005, 09:29:25 AM »

Quote from: NCSteve
So on a new hive the temp is important. Using a SBB, the temp plays a more important role. So Im thinking Ill just slide in the sheet if the nights are cool, so the hive can maintain the proper temperature easier. Yes?


Dunno, but my open mesh floors don't have tray. I've never slid anything in summer or winter.
Quote from: NCSteve

 On the feeding. So youre saying I dont need to feed if I have a flow, even on a new hive?
 Is feeding in the spring only done before the flow to get the bees producing earlier so their numbers are up for the season?
 Then again in the fall after the flow to get ready for winter?


I'd feed to get them to draw foundation quicker in the spring. Sure, you don't have to, but you'll recoup the effort in honey later on.

Quote from: NCSteve

Onto Drone brood. Ok I get that varroa like the drone larva. Should I run a frame with drone foundation in the hives?
 If I do which frame number is best?
 I understand that as soon as its capped, remove it and freeze it.


I use about the 4th frame in from the end, so it's on the edge of the brood, but not right in it. I simply put a honey super frame in, which is shorter, and allows the to draw drone underneath. This means on the bottom 1/3 of one frame is drone. A whole frame is too much and will split the colony.

this being the case, I just cut the drone cells off - leaving the worker brood above undisturbed.


Quote from: NCSteve


 Do I then check all the capped larva or just some to get an idea of mite count?
 Do I have to clean it out or will the bees do it if I put it back?
 While Im freezing/checking the capped comb, do I replace the frame with another empty drone comb?


Me, I just have a quick look with the uncapping fork then chuck it in the solar extractor or feed it to the birds. Don't do this near your hive though - take it home or somewhere a long way from the hives.

Heres infected brood on a uncapping fork.



A little mite up close.



Even with this level of varroa, after regular brood uncapping, and a swarm this colony went on to produce a honey surplus.

It's not mine by the way. It's in our teaching apiary.

Adam
Logged
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2005, 09:36:07 AM »

Quote from: NCSteve

 I understand that as soon as its capped, remove it and freeze it.
 Do I then check all the capped larva or just some to get an idea of mite count?


You can catch half of mites away with drones.

There is no need for freezing. Just cut drone combs off with knife and put the frame back. They do new drone combs.

No need to count mites. Just look, are they many or few. So you know that they are present.  If you see tens of mites in palm size area, it means that it is good to handle them soon after you have taken honey off.

If mites are just few or a couple, it is enough when you give oxalic acid to winter ball.

KEEP COOL
Logged
NCSteve
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 29

Location: Hillsborough, NC


« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2005, 10:01:20 AM »

Ahh, so just by adding a smaller frame theyll automatically put drone brood under it? Thats good to know.

 That way seems easy.
Logged
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2005, 10:33:35 AM »

Quote from: NCSteve
Ahh, so just by adding a smaller frame theyll automatically put drone brood under it? Thats good to know.

 That way seems easy.


Or you cut lower 1/3 part  from langstroth foundations away, and bees build soon the gap, or you put farrar (low) foundation into langstroth
Logged
Jay
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 471


Location: Concord, MA


« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2005, 11:18:44 AM »

Quote from: NCSteve
Is feeding in the spring only done before the flow to get the bees producing earlier so their numbers are up for the season?
 Then again in the fall after the flow to get ready for winter?


Spring and fall feedings are also a good time to medicate. Cheesy

Here is a quote from Beekeeping A Practical Guide by Richard E Bonney:
Nosema disease is caused by a protozoa. It is an infection of the gut of adult bees-workers, drones, and the queen. The disease is widespread and serious. Its effects on workers are a less productive life and premature death. Its effects on the queen are first, reduced egg laying, and ultimately perhaps, her death. The effect on the colony, of course, is a weakened and dwindling population.
Nosema disease has its most devastating effects on a colony in the late winter, a period when colonies are otherwise already stressed and population is normally at its lowest point for the year.
There are no positive outward symptoms of nosema. Infected adult bees show no signs of the disease and a symptom sometimes attributed to nosema-spotting of the hive with feces-can have other causes. The only positive diagnosis comes from dissection and microscopic examination of adult bees or of their fecal matter. Because nosema is widespread in North America and is serious, it is probably best to assume that all colonies have it and treat them accordingly.
Treatment Nosema disease may be treated with fumagillin,which is availabee under the trade name Fumidil B. This medication is administered twice a year, spring and fall, in sugar syrup. Fumagillin does not eliminate the infection, but brings it under control so that the colony can thrive. The twice yearly treatment should be routine.

Hope this helps! Cheesy
Logged

By the rude bridge that arched the flood
Their flag to Aprils breeze unfurled
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world
-Emerson
golfpsycho
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 244

Location: salt lake city


« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2005, 11:42:14 AM »

When you get your bees, they should be relatively free of mites.  I wouldn't have the bees waste any energy building drone comb until the colony is growing like a house on fire. They will build the drone comb they feel they need without any encouragement from you.  All their energy initially needs to be spent drawing comb and raising worker brood.  I'm sure you've seen it mentioned in the forum, but I'm going to say it again.  Comb is your most valuable asset, and more so when starting out.  Feeding is a good idea, because they need to produce wax and build comb.  If there is a flow going on, they will usually ignore the feeder and chase the food source they prefer.  IF everything goes well, you have a good queen, the nectar flows happen when the hive population is high, you can get some surplus honey.  If your putting them on drawn comb, it's a different story, but I'm assuming your starting from scratch.  It is the difference between racing to build up a viable colony and placing the colony to make honey.  You can buy drone sized foundation and move to 9 frame spacing later in the year.  Again, the drone foundation in the supers saves energy, less wax, wider comb, equal honey.
Logged
pardee
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 22

Location: Southwest Michigan


« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2005, 04:54:24 PM »

The Bees agree that if you don’t smoke them before you open the Hive they will sting you. You will find that what works for someone else won’t seem like a good idea to you. Certain thing you will have to do. Treat for pests, extract honey, re-queen and make splits etc. I usually look for the things that everyone talks about these are the basics. And if you don’t do them you will fail. I heard someone say once that Beekeeping is farming for intellectual’s. So I’m sure you will find what works best for you.
Logged
NCSteve
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 29

Location: Hillsborough, NC


« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2005, 05:57:29 PM »

Thanx for the tips.

 And yes Ill be starting from scratch so cellbuilding will be my priority. Honey production the first year isnt an issue, but Id like to try to do everything I can to get a taste.  Smiley

 And youre right, the new packeges should be relatively free of mites.  Ill keep in mind the smaller frame or cutting the foundation tricks for later. I appreciate all the tips.

 Oh we've started building hive parts, and I recieved a wooden hive top feeder and escape board (triangular maze) that I ordered for prototypes.
 Two fast questions.

 The hive top feeder has silicone in the corners. And its sealed with what looks like poly. Now when I build the others, does it matter what I seal it with? For example, does it need to be oil based poly, and am I just looking at a clear caulk, not silicone? Just wondering.

 Im hearing that escape boards dont work well. What do you guys use?
 Hate to build a bunch THEN find out theres a better way.
Logged
golfpsycho
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 244

Location: salt lake city


« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2005, 10:33:28 PM »

I used to use fume boards and escapes.  I only have a few colonys now and I tried pulling the supers and taking them across the yard, thinking all the bees would go back to the main hive bodys before dark.  It worked in 2 of 3 tries.  The 3rd one had a small bit of brood in it that I didn't see.. so they wouldn't leave.  I ended up just shaking them out.  Wear a veil and some elastics on your pant legs for this excersize.. bahahahahahahah
Logged
Phoenix
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 139

Location: Middle of The Great Lakes State, Milford, MI


WWW
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2005, 04:28:01 PM »

Quote
Is there anything, I mean anything that beekeepers agree on?


Yes, we all keep bees... other than that... no.  Some of us have very strong opinions as to the right way to do things, and those that don't agree are wrong.  As you see even in this thread...

I'm sure I will ruffle some feathers, but I need to bring up some points to ponder.  And I will do so without attacking others just because they don't agree with me...

Quote
Most beekeepers agree to disagree on most beekeeping topics!

I disagree! cheesy
Quote
Do I feed throughout the combbuilding process until they have the second deep drawn? Or will they tell me when its time to stop by not feeding on the syrup?

Most keepers will agree that any time you are trying to get your colony to draw comb it is best to feed.  Mainly because they will draw it faster and much more efficiently.  I personally stop feeding when I put on my honey supers.  Sugar is cheaper than Honey, therefore the less honey they have to consume in order to draw comb, the more honey you will harvest at the end of the season.
Quote
You can give them terrarium heater 15 W and nuc will develope 3 times faster than naturally. (cold nights)

Hmmm... He doesn't believe in Small Cell Beekeeping, but he is the only one that I know of that uses a terrarium heater.  Not that I disagree with his method, just his one track mind, and unwillingness to see benefit in other opinions and theories.
Quote
People have had success going the small cell way, but until its tested and accepted by the majority I dont see things being changed. But the more that try it to see if it can work worldwide help the process along.

I do not see any negative points to Small Cell Beekeeping, but one area that needs to be addressed and I have yet to see touched on in this thread is the fact that smaller cells get capped in a shorter amount of time, and also hatch sooner.  Think about the benefits that be achieved in the interruption of the mite cycle with the shorter cycle of smaller bees.

I don't understand why some keepers fight this Small Cell theory.  If there were some negative points to consider I might see their point in resisting the change.  If bees were suppose to be this big, why are feral combs found to be much smaller than the size of our "standard" foundation?
Quote
As far I have had bees, big ones are the best honey collectors.

If larger bees are more efficient, why are they not the size of cows? cheesy  I believe the colony works as one common body.  Smaller cells means more bees per frame, and I believe that bees are like vehicles.  Smaller vehicles are much more fuel efficient.
Quote
I'm fooling around with some small cell, and I keep reading some different bulliten boards to see how they are managing the mites, but when it comes down to it, I have oxalic at the ready to knock them down.

I agree with having a backup plan, I would not recommend that anyone jump in blindly and assume that Small Cell is going to be the end of mites.  Again, I feel that Small Cell keeping is just an added benefit to the natural pest management program, with no negative points that I can see.  If someone does not believe Small Cell to be a benefit, why not add it to an existing program and see what benefits you see.  I believe you will only see benefits.
Quote
So on a new hive the temp is important. Using a SBB, the temp plays a more important role. So Im thinking Ill just slide in the sheet if the nights are cool, so the hive can maintain the proper temperature easier. Yes?

Temperature is not only important on a new hive, it important to every hive.  In colder weather the colony will not be able to maintain the brood rearing temperature near the bottom of an open bottom or SBB.  And don't be fooled into believing that a SBB is the answer to better ventilation in a hive.  Remember that a hive is just like a chimney and only operates efficiently with proper convection, you must have an exhaust in the top in order to see the most benefit from an open bottom hive.  As you will see in previous threads Finman does not agree.  Test this for yourself by smoking the bottom of a hive with a SBB installed and no exhaust in the top.  Observe how much smoke remains in the hive and for how long(This is best observed with a sheet of plexiglass on top of the hive instead of your top cover).  Now install an exhaust in the top of the hive and smoke in the same manner.  Compare your observations and decide for yourself as to which method would work more efficiently in the middle of the summer.  Would you rather have your bees fanning the entrance and bearding or would you rather have them out bringing in more nectar?
Quote
The Bees agree that if you don’t smoke them before you open the Hive they will sting you. You will find that what works for someone else won’t seem like a good idea to you.

One more point for us to disagree...  I work most of my hives with no veil, no suit and without smoke.  I will use it if I have to, but it only sets them back further because they are gorging on the honey, then once the smoke has cleared they will put the honey back, they are two steps further ahead if they don't need to be smoked.  Some hives can be just as aggressive even after being smoked.  Every colony has a diffirent temperment, get to know your hives.

I hope I brought up some good points to ponder and more fuel for discussion...
Logged

NCSteve
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 29

Location: Hillsborough, NC


« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2005, 08:13:20 PM »

Quote
I do not see any negative points to Small Cell Beekeeping, but one area that needs to be addressed and I have yet to see touched on in this thread is the fact that smaller cells get capped in a shorter amount of time, and also hatch sooner. Think about the benefits that be achieved in the interruption of the mite cycle with the shorter cycle of smaller bees.



 I did read that. Something like 2 days saved for the complete cycle. And I agree, it does sound good. And logical that a shorter time to capping and hatching would upset mite reproduction.
 Then I read what it takes to regress bees. Without drawn smallcell, theyll have a habit of drawing bigger comb at first which has to be culled. Even with smallcell foundation, theyll draw the size they want at first.
 Now if you run say mediums for both brood and supers, its no biggie. Just use the drawn bigger cells for honey. But if you run deeps for brood, mediums for supers, then what?
 The discussion on small cell quite frankly was too much. I totally agree that the shorter time taken before capping would be helpful, but the information given on how to go about it seems too much for a beginner. Then you see the guy who posts that he lost 5 hives to varroa. He was running small cell and using FGMO.  
 So Ill hold off on it till I get some bee hours under my belt. Thats all Im saying really.

 
 
 
Quote
Remember that a hive is just like a chimney and only operates efficiently with proper convection, you must have an exhaust in the top in order to see the most benefit from an open bottom hive.



 Got that part already. Im just thinking on options. Just a raise of the top 1/16 with shims or an actual 4" box attached to the top with screened holes with the option of turning one into a top entrance. Kinda like the DE hive. Dunno yet. But I have a few weeks before I start making tops. Kinda wondering how much is too much. Doubt the bees will put on sweaters to let me know theyre cold. Smiley
 People at the beeclub lost hives to damp conditions this year. Id hate to have that happen if I could do something to avoid the same problem.
 Im thinking that I can close off the SBB when the bees are new. And open the hive to more flow as the hive grows and the weather gets warmer. Dunno yet.
Logged
golfpsycho
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 244

Location: salt lake city


« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2005, 09:22:10 PM »

I have a question for phoenix.  I'm trying small cell, among other things.  I read M Bush's postings, along with all the other small cell advocates.  I don't like chemicals in my garage, let alone my few hives.  I guess I should get to the point.
From my readings, it appears most of the feral bees were destroyed.  It would be normal to assume most feral bees, especially swarms cast from feral hives, would be drawing small cell.  Why didn't they survive?  I'm trying it, but it's just a question that keeps popping up in my mind.  If this works, where are all the feral bees?  Haven't seen one around here in years.
Logged
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2005, 01:07:48 PM »

I have had bees 42 years.  I was 15 year I started. I have seen many kind of bees and many kind of beekeepers.  

Very few understand how to get plenty of honey. They do all kind of odd tricks, they find them more, and try more and more? What they learn and why.  What is the goal?

You are talking very old issues. Nothing new to me.  That small cell is 10 years old issue. Why Canadians and Californians have so huge losses in their hives 2years ago?

You have bee university in every state. What is wrong? Why they cannot see solution under their nose, even if beginners know it?

*****

I have so much experience, that I can see from one sentence, who is beekeper and who is not. Be carefull Cool  

Logged
Phoenix
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 139

Location: Middle of The Great Lakes State, Milford, MI


WWW
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2005, 09:35:33 PM »

Quote
From my readings, it appears most of the feral bees were destroyed.

I have asked myself the same question GP, I think the key word is "most".  As with everything else in beekeeping, every keeper has their opinion as to whether or not there are actually any feral survivors or not.  If their are any surviving feral colonies, it is due to the fact of natural selection and hygenic behaviour.  When the mites first became epidemic it was a shock to everyone, including feral colonies.  Since they never had to deal with them in such quantities if at all, those colonies that did not have hygenic traits or were of larger descent, could not cope.  Those that did, survived, and passed down the better genetic traits.  That is as close as I can figure.
Quote
Very few understand how to get plenty of honey. They do all kind of odd tricks, they find them more, and try more and more? What they learn and why. What is the goal?

I'm not sure that it is all about getting more honey.  Personally, my goal is to overwinter more hives, without the use of chemicals, and to take advantage of the hives that show signs of positive genetics.
Logged

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.204 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 28, 2014, 05:52:38 PM
anything