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Author Topic: $700 billion failout fails  (Read 5116 times)
EasternShore
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« on: September 29, 2008, 04:14:20 PM »

I hate that taxpayers were going to be held responsible for irresponsible trading on wall street, but I'm terrified now.  I feel as if our country has went to "hell in a handbasket", as my Gram would say.  It's not just this failed vote.  Irresponsible lending, borrowing, stock trading, crime, health care, foreclosures, high gas/fuel prices, unemployment, cost of living, OMG, where does it end?Huh??

If it wasn't cloudy out, I would go and watch the bees.  That's my happy place.  I could go watch my chickens!

Becky
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 04:26:30 PM »

market dropped 700 points w/in minutes. It is scary stuff. I feel for those closer to/or retired and cant recoup losses over time. This market correction was totally delayed to our detriment by Greenspan among others. It will get worse before it gets better.
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mtman1849
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 05:12:38 PM »

Ok I don't care what anyone says NAFTA is to blame for all of America's troubles,  Before they came up with that Idea most people were working and the economy was good.  The first thing to go was textile to Mexico,  And then furniture to China.  I those to thing alone effected everything else,  Car builders have no one to buy cars guess what automotive layoffs.  I could go one with how it has all snowballed for a while.  To make a long story short the only people that has benefited from all these trade agreements is the ones at the top but their day is coming, when none of people at the bottom can afford to by there imported junk.  And If they want to bail out banks let our tax dollars go to pay off our mortgages for 700 billion they could bail a lot of us out.  Sorry I ranting 
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 05:45:02 PM »

Americans were getting too comfortable. Perhaps this will straighten them out for another 40 years. And then we will start it again.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 09:51:17 PM »

Americans were getting too comfortable. Perhaps this will straighten them out for another 40 years. And then we will start it again.


Ain't going to happen as long as most Amnericans still have some money.  They won't stop throwing things away, shipping jobs overseas, or drinking their Frozen Margerittas until they have no choice but to make due....that means the entire world has to become flat broke 1st.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 11:32:41 AM »

I'm afraid you're right, Brian, but not just Americans, all the countries with wealthy are going to have to fall.  Remember, this is now a global economy, and you've got a few making billions off the many, all around the world, not just in the good ole US of A. 

What's really troubling is that there's nothing behind our money - or the EU's, for that matter.  Once we came off the gold standard money became worthless paper, traded on a house built of a deck of cards, and now the credit that made up the cards is crumbling.  I think we're in for a rough ride, something many of the softies aren't going to be able to handle.  Hunkering down with my bees, chickens, gardens and guns......
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1frozenhillbilly
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 11:50:01 AM »

it dont help that the government was forcing these banks to make loans to unqualified people,  a crash is going to happen its just a question of when,  even this bailout wont prevent it,  just delay it,  lets get it over with so we can get back,  govt. get out of it,  let the free market take care of it's self
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reinbeau
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 12:09:25 PM »

I've just finished screaming at the TV.  I heard Juju Chang on ABC news say

   
Quote
The credit markets are constricting, which is making it harder for companies to borrow money to pay their employees[/quote

I hope those of you with good heads on their shoulders see the fatal flaw in this statement!  This is what I mean.  There are no longer any solid underpinnings beneath the economy.  If it's considered business as usual to borrow money to pay your employees then we truly are sunk as an economic force.
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abejaruco
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 01:00:30 PM »

Quote
it dont help that the government was forcing these banks to make loans to unqualified people,  a crash is going to happen its just a question of when,  even this bailout wont prevent it,  just delay it,  lets get it over with so we can get back,  govt. get out of it,  let the free market take care of it's self
Yes, 1frozenhillbilly, market is wise. But if the market is not clean because the corruption any money will disappear in the way and the crisis is served.
I don´t know if the corruption on a large scale began in Iraq, but the money blew and is something incomprehensible.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 01:07:29 PM »

I don´t know if the corruption on a large scale began in Iraq, but the money blew and is something incomprehensible.
No, it didn't start in Iraq or over Iraq, at least here in the USA.  I think it all started in the early 70's, with the first visible to the public symptom being the 'gasoline shortage' so many of us sat in long lines over. 

I call all of this mess Fast Eddy accounting.  W need business to get back to basic, real accounting, which is, after all, to track and count money made for goods provided.  The guys at the top have further to fall before things start to turn around, and, unfortunately, we're going to be dragged down with them.
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 10:36:18 PM »

if they'd just let these da$'# businesses and folks fail, the honest and sound would survive and thrive.  the markets would correct.  instead, we prop up these losers and they carry on as before.  my tax dollars at work.
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asprince
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 06:01:09 AM »

I am seeing my life savings dwindle but I am with you kathyp. I am self employed and if I make a poor decision no one will be there to bail me out! This is where I disagree with my President.

A lot of our problems (maybe not this one) would be solved if we had term limits and congress had to play by the rules they set......social security and health care.

Worried in Georgia, Steve
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 07:18:25 AM »

This bill needed to fail. It was a bad bill even after the clean up they attempted to make with it. Putting up a unified front on a bad bill doesn't change the fact that it was a bad bill.

While the fact that AIG, Lehman, Fannie, Freddie, and Morgan are all going to take hits. The idea of bailing out corporations to me is reprehensible. Especially at taxpayer expense. 700 Billion in addition to the already existing levels of debt. Sorry I can't afford it.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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EasternShore
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 10:28:00 AM »

I've been saying that all along understudy!!  I can't afford to bail out the greedy *******'s who put themselves into this position.  I constantly hear grumbles of "the revolution" is coming.  I'm in a rural area.  We're farmers and everybody looks out for each other.

I'm waiting for the fallout and everything to come crashing down.  I think it's necessary.  The dollar is worthless, and our status across the world, it seems is pretty pathetic.  Like someone else said, I have my chickens, my garden, my veggies I canned/froze, shotguns, dog, Mark and our bees!  We won't starve.

Becky
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Big John
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »

the new bill they are considering today still needs to fail, they can sugar coat it all they want, bottom line they are still trying to give their rich friends 700 billion dollars!
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reinbeau
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 11:17:15 AM »

Well, they're getting bombarded with e-mails and phone calls running 50:1 against any kind of a bailout.  I've been hearing all about Jeffrey Miron's take on all of this, so I searched out his commentary.  A small snippet from that commentary:

Quote
The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.

The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.

Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.

In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.


Sounds right to me!  The thought of the failure of thse companies and what happens to the economy then is scary, but the thought of giving all these corporations and their fat-cat executives (who get huge rewards for driving corporations into the ground, for pete's sake!) is far scarier.  Where is the incentive to succeed if all you have to do is run up huge bills and cry for a handout?

This thought just occurred to me - this is the epitome of the 'no one fails' BS that the intelligencia has been spouting for years now.  Look where it's got us?  We need failure to force people to succeed.  Without bailouts!!!

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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 11:24:22 AM »

this is an interesting article...a little long maybe

www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6553.html
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EasternShore
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 03:48:31 PM »

I've been flooding my representatives with emails.  I've also hit up CNN's posting site.  What I want to know is WHY THE RUSH to pass this thing?Huh  Why isn't our government listening to us?  Our markets and economy will recover eventually.  I'm so grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....................... MAD!!!
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asprince
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 06:30:54 PM »

With over 50% against any bail out, I heard someone on the radio today say that passing the bill is like giving a sick child medicine when they do not want it. We are the sick child and congress is trying to give us some nasty medicine!

Awaiting the Revolution!

Steve   
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EasternShore
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 02:54:13 AM »

From Mark...

Much talk of the "R" word down at our country store....ya never want to piss off the farmers...ever...
They rarely get hand outs OR bailouts....go figure.

Hope you all are well armed if this whole thing goes south..I know WE are...hehe and Becky's a wicked good shot...
Rem 870 is proped up and loaded...take my bees and chickens...I think Not!
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Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
We are the keepers, it is our duty to preserve life.
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