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Author Topic: About those wild bees...  (Read 4656 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: January 17, 2005, 10:56:32 AM »

One of the colonies I am planning on  capturing is located in a pump house wall. The outside of the wall is currogated sheet metal and is rivited  together at the seams. There is a hole in the metal where the bees go in and out. Right above the hole you can see a board running horozontally. I believe this board is a part of the framing of the wall and the beehive is below this board. There is another hole down close to the ground that they use, and a big rip to the left of all this on the other side of a wall stud. I believe they go through a hole where the currogated matal doesn't touch the studd. You know how that metal is. Wavey.

The inside wall is that plywood looking stuff.... No plywood but made out of what looks like wood shavings. And not particle board. I know the name of this stuff it just escapes me right now. ANYWAY... That stuff is in real good condition.

Plan one;

Seal up the holes outside at night. Then go inside and cut the wall at the verticle studs. At this point I will screw a board to the section being cut out and secure that to both sides. then cut along the horizontal board I mentioned. and along the bottom. Being this is inside the pump house, and there is nothing in there, like walking into a large empty closet, I run everybody out and close the door. Will need a lamp for light I suppose. Now I unscrew the board I attached and use it as the handle to get the cut section out of the way. AAAHHHH now I'm in a bee hive.

From here should I Beevac the girls, or go about my business of cutting out the comb and wiring it into the frames, placing them into the new hive and yadda yadda yadda. And then eventually they will all go into the new home.

Plan two;

Seal up the outside holes except the top one. Run a short PVC pipe from the hole and rig it to a hive body making them go through the hive to get out. Would they ever possible move into the new home that way?
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NCSteve
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2005, 05:49:37 PM »

Cant say I know much about bees yet, but I think the plywood you're talking about is OSB. Orientated Strand Board.

 Not that its important to your question, but heck I cant answer any questions about bees.  rolleyes
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2005, 06:04:23 PM »

Yeah!!! That's it. Don't know why I can't remember that.
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 06:20:25 PM »

You need to go with plan one or something similar.  It is hard to judge the easiest way from the description. Would  it be hard to drill out a couple of the rivets and pull back the corregated metal?  I guess I'll leave it up to you the best way to cut in the wall.

The problem with plan 2 is that you will never get the queen that way AND even if you do get most of the bees (baiting your hive with a new queen) you are leaving the comb/brood/honey behind that will make a mess/stink if there are no bees left to tend to it.  I'm assuming it can get pretty hot there.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 07:18:14 PM »

Well I didn't put the whole thought process down on plan two. I would go back in and get the comb out. But if that queen ain't gonna leave I guess that is out. I was just wondering what would be easier on the bees.

Plan one. THis pump house was probably built way back when-ever. It is thick metal and tough looking rivits. The owner is the one that suggested cutting the OSB.

This last summer I kept waiting for it to warm up but it hardly ever got above the mid 90Fs. Perhaps this year it will get into the comfortable mid 100Fs.
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2005, 07:27:58 PM »

Heck, if the owner is up for cutting the OSB, have at it.

Smoke them really good and then give them some time to gorge themselves with honey.  Just take your time, a bee vac helps, but there will be casualties regardless.

Have fun and take plenty of pictures.
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NCSteve
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2005, 07:33:02 PM »

Im not catching something. If the metal is riveted, whats holding it to the walls?

 The reason Im asking is corregated metal is usually installed with a thick large headed nail on lapped seams. Mostly with neoprene washers to prevent leaking. Now this IS a pump house so theres no telling how it was installed from this side of the monitor. huh
 BUT, if they are nailed in some way is there anything stopping you from pushing in on the metal and either pulling the fasteners or snipping them off?

 Im guessing any cutting with a power tool is going to get most of the bees wondering what youre doing.

 Snipping any fasteners carefully would be the least intrusive way to get to the hive. AND it could be replaced after the bees are removed.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2005, 11:16:41 PM »

As mentioned above, this little pump house was built years ago. You know, when they didn't scrimp on materials. Plus the fact it would have been out in the open west Texas flat lands where 55 mph winds are common. Heck it ain't windy until it hits sixty around here. ( OK a little streatch on the last part)  But we just had some of those 55mph winds a couple of days ago.

So this is a wooden frame with heavey guaged metal. Nailed to the 2x4s but where the metal comes togeather it is rivited. Strong macho rivits. As far as pushing in on it to warp it a little, you could run head long into it and not cause it to give much. At the corners are cover pieces that are also rivited to the rest of it. Have you ever seen one of those old metal stock tanks. That thick metal stuff? That's how it is.

How the inside has been redone with that OSB and I suppose the pump was removed many years ago. It is roughly 6x6 ft.

As for the cutting, I was thinking just deep enough to almost get through the wood where I will have to tear the last thin pieces to get it out. Let it set for awhile for the girls to calm down. Then go after them.

Question, would night time eviction be better?
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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NCSteve
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2005, 06:06:33 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac

As for the cutting, I was thinking just deep enough to almost get through the wood where I will have to tear the last thin pieces to get it out. Let it set for awhile for the girls to calm down. Then go after them.




 Thats a good idea.
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Jay
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2005, 10:05:30 AM »

I dissagree. OSB is almost more glue than wood and therefore is going to be next to impossible to " tear apart " by hand. It's not even like plywood where one ply of wood is laid on another with a healthy dose of glue. The " strands " in oriented strand board can float between any "layer" of the thickness of the piece. In other words what I'm saying is that you are going to have a tough time cutting down to the last eighth or sixteenth of an inch and then tearing everything off except that last sixteenth.  And even if you could, how are the girls going to react when you are ripping and tearing away at the piece. Cut the whole thing free, prop it in place, then wait for the girls to calm down. Come back later when they are calm, smoke them up good and then just remove the whole piece you have cut away, slick as snot!  As far a night time adventures, if you do this in the day, you will have far less bees to contend with. All the field bees will be out collecting!  My two cents.  Good luck and let us know how it goes! Cheesy
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2005, 10:26:42 AM »

Jay,

You make some good points. Wondering about setting up a feeder outside just incase there isn't much for the bees to collect at the time of doing this. Or would they still be out looking?

I'm willinig to bet that when I pull the wood is it gonna tear some comb in the process. The construction is OSB, air space (where hive is) and the metal outside wall. Airspace being the width of  2x4s.

Then the part about plugging up the entrances is probably out also as I might have to pump the smoke into the bottom hole and let it drift up. These holes are just about enough to stick your finger in and the top on is half covered by the verticle board. Then the big ripped hole is on the other side of a stud from where the hive is, unless it has bleed over. I don't rule that out.

If I pull the bottom of the panel out and it does rip the comb up would that be too late for smoke?
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Jay
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2005, 04:37:01 PM »

Jerry,

 I don't know all that much about Texas winters, but if the temps are above 60 and there is forage out there, you can bet the girls will be out looking for it! Are there things that bloom all winter down there like in Florida and California, or do you go through a shorter time of dearth like we have here in the northeast.  Right now in Concord, MA  the ground is white and the temp is 10F!  Not much forrage out there right now!  

I would not block up any holes, instead I would smoke them in both holes, wait 30 seconds or a minute and then smoke them again. Then they will be pretty well honey gorged and docile for you.

I would also be willing to bet that the outside wall gets pretty hot when the sun shines in the middle of the summer and therefore comb would not be able to stay attached without melting. So my bet is that most of the comb is attached to the inside cooler osb wall. Again, this is only my guess but I would think that metal must get pretty hot in the summer. If this is the case, then you shouldn't get too much tearing of the comb when you pull the wall in because it will mostly be attached to the osb and not the metal outer wall. I could be wrong about this, I was wrong once before. It was this time when I thought I had made a mistake but I actually haddn't.  But seroiusly, figure out which wall this is and if it is a north wall it will  naturally be cooler, facing away from the sun. But if is is a south wall, immagine how hot it gets in the middle of  the summer, and then try to immagine comb stuck to the inside of that hot metal wall.

Let me know what you think about all this I'm curious now!! cheesy
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By the rude bridge that arched the flood
Their flag to Aprils breeze unfurled
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world
-Emerson
Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2005, 05:41:35 PM »

"I was wrong once before. It was this time when I thought I had made a mistake but I actually haddn't."

You stole that from me didn't you?

It is on the north side, and the heat is probably the reason. On the south they would probably fry anywhere inside the wall. You can get burned around here just by leaning up against metal in full  direct rays of the summer sun. I'll kick a wrench into the shade and wait awhile before picking it up.

Until reasently I hadn't paid much attention to the plants this early in the year, but there is some sort of weed growing right now with little yellow flowers on it. They're everywhere.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Jay
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2005, 06:10:52 PM »

So forrage probablly isn't much of an issue, nec'st pas?
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latebee
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2005, 09:38:21 PM »

Well I don't consider myself that great of a beekeeper,but I do have the experience of removing five established colonies from buildings last year(2004). Personally tried plan "B" or 2 and met with dismal failure and resorted to plan 1. I opened up the colony a little at a time bee-vacuuming all the while. (of course I smoked them pretty heavy and let the smoke take effect for about 4-5 minutes and used smoke during extraction also). When the large majority of the bees were vacumed I then started to cut and remove the comb,putting it in empty frames with rubber bands holding it in the same orientation that it was taken out.(ie vertical-up and down instead of sideways-and also try to keep the brood frames together. I think even though I might have missed capturing the queen at the moment a new one was possibly raised from an egg or larvae. These five were combined into two colonies and medicated by late October. They did extremely well until late January of 2005 when it became 24 and 27 degrees below zero(I checked them Jan. 17th when it was warm and they were fine) and then all I received for my hard labor was two colnies of dead bees --but they drew out 6 supers of frames and I have about 30+ pounds of honey also left.Good luck!
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