Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
August 30, 2014, 04:18:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bottom board ?  (Read 6903 times)
Rich V
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 212

Location: Northern Illinois


« on: January 13, 2005, 11:22:56 AM »

Does the screened bottom board replace the regular bottom board? Do you use them  together, or individually ?  What is bearding ?

Rich V
Logged
Lesli
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 420


Location: Upstate NY


« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2005, 12:38:40 PM »

I use the SBB alone. Others may use it over a solid bottom board, or replace it / use it with a solid bottom board in winter. Ask six beekeepers, get six answers.

I use the SBB alone, even in winter. The prevailing theory is that bees don't die from cold, but from wet. The SBB together with top ventilation keeps moisture from building up in the hive.

I just checked on my bees today. It's just under 50 F, and the girls were flying. I opened the hive--just a peek--and saw a whole heck of a lot of bees. I used a paint stir to clean out the bottom board, and as expected found a fair number of dead--to be expected, right? My only worry is whether they have enough stores. I should probably take a flashlight out there and peek a little closer. There's no reason to think they lack stores; we had a fantastic goldenrod flow in the fall. But I'm new to beekeeping, and nervous.   Cheesy

Bearding is when a large number of bees start hanging out at the entrace, usually because it's too hot in the hive for everyone to be inside. Kind of like porch sittin' in summer.
Logged

**************************
Lesli
http://beeyard.blogspot.com/
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2005, 01:22:01 PM »

Quote from: Lesli
I use the SBB alone. Others may use it over a solid bottom board, or replace it / use it with a solid bottom board in winter. Ask six beekeepers, get six answers.

I use the SBB alone, even in winter. The prevailing theory is that bees don't die from cold, but from wet. .


Awfull theories.

SBB is developed to keep hive more dry. It is not mentioned to use at summer.

There was Canadian research just now and it reported "Nothing good to say about SBB during summer" .


Six answers. 5 stupid ones.  cry

You use the SBB alone, even in winter. - It is just good in winter, not in summer.  shocked

Many think that it saves from varroa. Look at wild hives. They are dead.

I use solid bottom, the but upper finger size entrance must be open during winter.

Wind is very bad in winter and in summer. It keep cool brood. They will get chalk brood.
Logged
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2005, 01:44:59 PM »

see now thats one of the six beekeepers you get a answer from and , finman knows his stuff but Canada and Finland do not ever see the temps that we get down south and about 80% of the commercial beekeepers down here only use the SSB and the main reason is that help with ventalation in the summer months , of course you have to have ventalation in the top of the hive also and they also use it for against SHB.
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6403


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2005, 02:01:00 PM »

I disagree or agree, depending on how you look at it.

I use screened bottom boards in the summer with and upper ventilation box as well.  It totally eliminates bearding for me.  I do close them off in the winter.

Differnt methods are required in different climates,  so I don't think one can conclude SBB are no good anywhere because they don't work in your particular climate.

I do believe that SBB are over hyped for the varroa control aspect, but that is just a personal opinion.

I see no more chalk broad using SBB than I did before, but I do see a lot less of my bees frantically trying to move air to cool their hive.

Just my 2 cents.

Just as a side note,  I experimented with not using a bottom board at all on one of my hives this year, and it was my biggest producer.  I know a sample size of one doesn't really prove anything, nor am I trying to infer anything other than it couldn't have hindered then too much.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


golfpsycho
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 244

Location: salt lake city


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2005, 02:52:24 PM »

I'm interested in your bottomless hive Robo.  If I recall, you said they were on a barn roof, and left the bottom comb undeveloped.  I was wondering how they managed with any wasp/hornet problems, or if you found them generally more or less defensive.  I think the higher production you mentioned is another nail in the queen excluder coffin.  Less hinderances, more honey.  I'm guessing you put the bottom back on for winter, but are you planning on removing and testing the results again this year?
Logged
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2005, 03:12:48 PM »

Our winter is really different that on yours. Normally hives are half covered with snow, ventilation on winter is different than in open space.

Many are 2000 km south from me or from  Canadian.

I can se, that you have a lot of winterin difficuilties but I do not have.

Why ? - Our winter is not same at all.  I feed them at the beginning of September durin one week . Next I look the at the beginning of March. They just are there and I do not worry them, because it doest not help anything.

I have 20% extra hives. If something happens to hive or queen, it is normal for me.

Many professional beekeepers have screened bottom on winter in Filnad, but it is closed in summer.

BUT REMEMBER. BOTTON DOES NOT BRING HONEY.
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6403


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2005, 03:29:02 PM »

Quote from: Finman

BUT REMEMBER. BOTTON DOES NOT BRING HONEY.


Very true.  But neither does a bee who is on the front of a hive fanning to keep it cool or dry honey Cheesy
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6403


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2005, 03:39:49 PM »

Quote from: golfpsycho
I'm interested in your bottomless hive Robo.  If I recall, you said they were on a barn roof, and left the bottom comb undeveloped.  I was wondering how they managed with any wasp/hornet problems, or if you found them generally more or less defensive.  I think the higher production you mentioned is another nail in the queen excluder coffin.  Less hinderances, more honey.  I'm guessing you put the bottom back on for winter, but are you planning on removing and testing the results again this year?


Yes they were on a barn roof.  They seemed to only use the top half of the bottom super.  It was completely drawn (before being bottomless).  

You ask very good questions, and I will try to answer, just keep in mind there was nothing scientific about it, just a sample of one and my opinions.

I did not find them any more defensive than other hives, though it is a bit different trying to work a hive that has bees coming and going from all 4 sides.

I don't really have any wasp/hornet problem to speak of.  I think they were less prone to the fall bumblebees looking for food/hibernation.  The bumble bees seemed to be looking for an entrance and mainly tried the screened holes in the ventilation box.

Yes I put the bottom back on for winter.  Haven't really thought much about whether I'll do it again next year or not.  It is more manipulation to remove/restore the bottom board, and it does disorient them quite a bit for a day or two.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2005, 03:55:56 PM »

Quote from: Robo

Very true.  But neither does a bee who is on the front of a hive fanning to keep it cool or dry honey Cheesy


Helping ventilation is not problem at all.  - To dry honey is necassary for system.

Somethimes they are hanging outside and it is difficult to get them work after that. It takes few days. You are right
Logged
golfpsycho
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 244

Location: salt lake city


« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2005, 05:31:53 PM »

I'm just interested in the results and if they would be duplicated.  I know a bottom board doesn't make more honey.  I also know I have kept swarms in cardboard boxes for months when I was too poor to buy equipment.  The bees didn't mind a bit, however, when I started thinking I might be on to something, they chewed holes in the box.  Now I see cardboard nucs being sold.  hmmmm...
I've said before, I think we as beekeepers are much more particular as to their digs than they seem to be.  They'll set up housekeeping in just about any protected space, and occasionally, build comb in the open.  AHB is supposedly even less discriminate, and reportedly will build comb in an mty soda can.  I find it interesting the things that happen, and enjoy trying to sort out what really caused them, or if the results are just part of the 7% of the times the bees didn't do what they normally do.
Logged
Rich V
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 212

Location: Northern Illinois


« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2005, 07:37:50 PM »

Ok! let me see if I get this. A bottom board is used by its self. It is use in a hot climate, Southern States to cool the hive,as long as their is ventalation on the top. It can also be used in the North to help ventilate moisture. It should not be used in the spring when brood is starting, because it could cause a chill and kill the brood.

Rich V
Logged
Lesli
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 420


Location: Upstate NY


« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2005, 10:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Rich V
It should not be used in the spring when brood is starting, because it could cause a chill and kill the brood.

Rich V


 Cheesy I haven't heard that one before. Bees can apparently keep the cluster in a cold winter at a pretty toasty temp (warmer than I keep my house) according to... I think it was the Dec. Bee Culture or American Bee Journal. In any case, the bees are pretty good at keeping things warm, provided that warmth isn't blown away by the wind.

I can't claim any real experience with overwintering on SBBs. This winter has been positively abnornal, with temps, as today, as hight as 50 F. That's just plain weird for Upstate NY. But I do notice, looking under the hood, that there is no moisture in the hive, though we've had freezing rain for a few days.
Logged

**************************
Lesli
http://beeyard.blogspot.com/
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2005, 04:01:23 AM »

Quote from: Lesli
Quote from: Rich V
It should not be used in the spring when brood is starting, because it could cause a chill and kill the brood.

Rich V


 Cheesy I haven't heard that one before. Bees can apparently keep the cluster in a cold winter at a pretty toasty temp.....that warmth isn't blown away by the wind.

I can't claim any real experience with overwintering on SBBs.


Here in Finland we have a lot experience. We are near edge of the world, or at least of Europe.

Last summer beekeepers, which did not care about  their hive temperature, they got bad chalk brood. Also Canadian reserchers had bad chalk brood.

I had electical heaters in my hives  to the middle of summer. I got good yield, my hives developed fine. Some are broud about their "fine" bee construction systems, but they got nothing.

It is same to me, if someone like "hives as fine  machine", I just look for big honey yield!  Americans have learned it to me.
 
I have fighted 10 years against chalk brood and now I know the reasons.  I am going to manage chalk brood better and better.  Chalk brood ruins easily summers yield if you do not care. It also make combs dirty and larvas become sick.   -

That open bottom board is really dangerous, at least for beginners. I don't say nothing for Texas people. But also in Australia chalk brood is a bad desease.
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6403


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2005, 09:43:32 AM »

You CAN have too much of a good thing.  Ventilation is very important, and although the bees can manage to keep the cluster warm even when fully exposed, it is not the most efficient on them.  

Different locations call for different means.  I really like using the SBB with the slide in tray.  Like the one from BeeSource
 
or my rotated version.

Click image for larger view


 This way I can easily open and close the openings.
I usually open them up when the temps get into the 80s and close them off in the fall when the temps start to drop.

Finman is right when he talks about chalkbroad, any chilling of the brood can easily cause it.  In early spring it is very easy for a late cold snap to hit and there just isn't enough bees left from winter to keep all the brood warm.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2005, 10:18:10 AM »

Quote from: Robo

  In early spring it is very easy for a late cold snap to hit and there just isn't enough bees left from winter to keep all the brood warm.


That is important when weather is vague. The number of bees can collapse , when temperature is near 10C, it is windy and when sun comes in and goes behind clouds. Many times during  one week number of field bees are collapsed 50%.   They go out for flower and not get food and they die on journey.  


Bees can stand one week bad weather but after that they you can see problems in brood area.

When deseases attach in hive, it takes many weeks to get rid of it and your sumer goes by.

I have seen plenty of beekeepers who does not care about hives proper warming economy. When my hives have 5 box, they have 2.  It is easy to see when I drive my car in June.  

I need good ventilation only on turnip rape fields when bees get 100 lbs honey during 2 weeks.  

Also remember. You can turn your hive openeing to north, it helps ventilation but does not affect on hive temperature.  

BUT We use to say: "In Finland summer is short but there is too little snow".
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6403


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2005, 10:54:49 AM »

Quote from: Finman

I have seen plenty of beekeepers who does not care about hives proper warming economy. When my hives have 5 box, they have 2.  It is easy to see when I drive my car in June.  


This brings up a very good point.  As we all know, beekeeping is not black and white,  but has many grey areas on management techniques.

Just because your bees survive, doesn't mean your management style is most efficient.  Studying other's techniques can surely help refine or support your ways.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Lesli
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 420


Location: Upstate NY


« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2005, 11:00:09 AM »

Quote
Different locations call for different means. I really like using the SBB with the slide in tray. Like the one from BeeSource


I was thinking of getting those, too, if only to check for varroa conveniently.

When I did have a solid bottom board on a hive, even tilted forward, I saw moisure building up. Of course, that was in summer, and we did have a humid summer.

Yesterday the temp was as high as 60F around here. Today it's about 30F and there's snow on the ground again (and with all of yesterday's melt, the sump in my basement is running).  At least the girls got in cleansing flights yesterday.
Logged

**************************
Lesli
http://beeyard.blogspot.com/
Finman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 440


Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2005, 11:20:26 AM »

Quote from: Lesli
When I did have a solid bottom board on a hive, even tilted forward, I saw . Of course, that was in summer, and we did have a humid summer.

.


There is no problem with moisure building up. It means nothing.

Now we are mixing very different  issues

1) Concensation of water when warm air meets cold bottom-> droplets

2) Too hot inside -->  need of bigger opening

3) Too moist on winter  inside hive and nosema will turn on

 4) Calculating some  dead mites

As you see, these things have nothing to do with each other. Only important thing is nosema. Keep upper enrance open on winter.

I treat my mites without calculating them all the time. I put oxalic acid. I save nothing i I not treat them.  I can give up to give apistan, it gives me money if I calculate and I notice that there is not need for medicine.

Too hot inside: give more space, take capped honey away, open the entrance wide, take upper openings open.

Do what you do, but don't cheat your self!
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.323 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 29, 2014, 08:22:02 PM
anything