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Author Topic: Ike??  (Read 6623 times)
Gena
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« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2008, 11:55:40 PM »

Right back at your off subject, JP - how did you fare with Gustave?? I've thought of you and all the other people out there preparing everything from bees to cattle for the hurricanes.
I broke my hives down to 2 deeps or 3 mediums depending on the setup, wrapped a ratchet strap around each one, put a concrete block on top and a bale of hay to block the wind...locked my chickens in their house w/boarded up windows....turned the horses out to pasture....They ALL did great.  The day before Ike struck I watched @ five of the hives and the bees were behaving weird - they knew the hurricane was coming.  I have loads of honey that I haven't yet extracted!! 
  Greg - I think you're safe regarding the insect to chicken mite transfer not being reasonable...Gena Wink
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« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2008, 12:53:08 AM »

Right back at your off subject, JP - how did you fare with Gustave?? I've thought of you and all the other people out there preparing everything from bees to cattle for the hurricanes.
I broke my hives down to 2 deeps or 3 mediums depending on the setup, wrapped a ratchet strap around each one, put a concrete block on top and a bale of hay to block the wind...locked my chickens in their house w/boarded up windows....turned the horses out to pasture....They ALL did great.  The day before Ike struck I watched @ five of the hives and the bees were behaving weird - they knew the hurricane was coming.  I have loads of honey that I haven't yet extracted!! 
  Greg - I think you're safe regarding the insect to chicken mite transfer not being reasonable...Gena Wink

Just some tree branches down, lost about 4-5 hives, haven't done a complete inventory check, just went by to cut the grass yesterday at my buddy's where I keep my bees on his 13 acres.

Haven't harvested but a little bit, got my work cut out for me. Glad you are ok.


...JP
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2008, 10:16:58 AM »

These people should have been under a mandatory evacuation, I blame the government of Texas for not getting them out.

This storm has been on target for the last 3 days so everyone in its path has had fair warning.

I have not looked at this until just now.
It was a mandatory evacuation.
Why do people always blame the government? The people were told to get out or die. They had a lot of warning and plenty of time to leave. I know I sure don't need the Government or any body else to tell me to go.

Now those folks that did stay behind. They are all whining like a bunch of babies. I just can't feel sorry for them. Suck it up folks, you made the choice. Appreciate what you managed to survive with. Next time get out.

Now I really have to wonder. Those that did leave now want to return. And they want to start getting things cleaned up. But they won't let them in. Seems to me the more people working the faster the place will get to going again. Weird how the folks that live there can't go back but volunteers from other places can go in.
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« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2008, 10:25:12 AM »

Quote
Now I really have to wonder. Those that did leave now want to return. And they want to start getting things cleaned up. But they won't let them in. Seems to me the more people working the faster the place will get to going again. Weird how the folks that live there can't go back but volunteers from other places can go in.


i think i can answer that part.  the week after the disaster, whatever it is, is dangerous.  depends on what is going on, but you have issues like leaking gas, shifting junk, deep water, critters, etc.  there are also many roads that are blocked, and emergency workers trying to get in to do their thing.  no water, no stores open, no gas stations open.  areas have to be identified as dumps, and heavy equipment brought in. 

it is faster in the long run, to let the emergency workers, utilities workers, and folks like red cross, to get in and set up.

at this point, what are people really going to be able to do? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2008, 10:39:17 AM »

These people should have been under a mandatory evacuation, I blame the government of Texas for not getting them out.

This storm has been on target for the last 3 days so everyone in its path has had fair warning.

I have not looked at this until just now.
It was a mandatory evacuation.
Why do people always blame the government? The people were told to get out or die. They had a lot of warning and plenty of time to leave. I know I sure don't need the Government or any body else to tell me to go.

Now those folks that did stay behind. They are all whining like a bunch of babies. I just can't feel sorry for them. Suck it up folks, you made the choice. Appreciate what you managed to survive with. Next time get out.

Now I really have to wonder. Those that did leave now want to return. And they want to start getting things cleaned up. But they won't let them in. Seems to me the more people working the faster the place will get to going again. Weird how the folks that live there can't go back but volunteers from other places can go in.

Jerry, the mayor of Galveston was very nonchalant in her entire approach to this Hurricane for too long before the storm and lots of people were not taking this hurricane as seriuosly as they should have.

My point is, if the people are in eminent danger, the powers that be should order the mandatory evacuation and emphasize that if anyone stays, they are on their own, and 911 calls may not be able to handled.

No, I don't blame the goverment for people not evacuating, but some people need a push, and there are those that in the back of their minds think, well, if I stay and get stranded, help will come along.

They need to know that after the storm, if they decided to stay, help will not be there, perhaps when they need it most.

Other than that, I don't feel sorry for people who stay for any evacuation of a dangerous hurricane that is forecast to wipe them out, I don't wish that they suffer, but they had their chance to go, but decided otherwise.


...JP
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« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2008, 11:04:44 AM »

Quote
Jerry, the mayor of Galveston was very nonchalant in her entire approach to this Hurricane for too long before the storm and lots of people were not taking this hurricane as seriuosly as they should have.

My point is, if the people are in eminent danger, the powers that be should order the mandatory evacuation and emphasize that if anyone stays, they are on their own, and 911 calls may not be able to handled.

she wasn't.  she was up there over and over again telling people to leave and telling them what help was available to them in evacuating.  she appears not to have an excitable personality and may have come across a laid back, but she didn't look laid back.  she looked frustrated, and in the end, resigned to the fact that many would not listen.

they did and they ran busses and went door to door to try to get people to leave. 

then, because people didn't leave, many 1st responders risked their live over and over to try and get people out as the water came up. 

i was just reading some comments from folks bi#@*&%*$ about no one coming to help them.  makes me want to not even go back down there.  i  know most aren't like that and the press love to find them and post their comments.  even so, it really ticks me off. 

one of the first and best lessons we teach our children?  there and consequences for the decisions you make. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2008, 03:24:19 PM »

Guess I have to amend the body count, it's apparantly risen to 40 now.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2008, 03:54:54 PM »

Most of the bodies were not in Texas.
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« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2008, 06:53:32 PM »

Yeah, it rose pretty quick yesterday, too... wonder why. 
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« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2008, 11:17:43 PM »

Ike-related storm deaths state by state
By The Associated Press – 7 hours ago

Authorities have reported a total of 41 deaths in 10 states as Ike moved from Texas northeastward across the U.S. midsection:

Texas — 11, including one person found in a submerged vehicle in Galveston and a 4-year-old Houston boy dead of apparent carbon monoxide poisoning from an emergency generator.

Louisiana — six, including a 16-year-old boy trapped in rising water.

Tennessee — two, both golfers killed by a falling tree.

Arkansas — one, a woman killed by a tree falling on a mobile home.

Ohio — six, including five by falling trees and one person electrocuted while working on a generator.

Indiana — seven, including a father and son killed helping children escape from a ditch.

Illinois — two, including an elderly man found in a flooded backyard.

Missouri — four, including a woman struck by a tree limb and an elderly man suspected of drowning in a flooded yard.

Kentucky — one, a 10-year-old boy struck by a tree limb while mowing a lawn.

Pennsylvania — one, a 46-year-old man struck by tree limb while helping remove a large tree from a house.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2008, 08:33:23 AM »

Ike-related storm deaths state by state
By The Associated Press – 7 hours ago

Authorities have reported a total of 41 deaths in 10 states as Ike moved from Texas northeastward across the U.S. midsection:

AHH... inflated figures... the main staple of news networks everywhere...

Let's separate them in legitimate and illegitimate claims...

Texas — 11, including one person found in a submerged vehicle in Galveston and a 4-year-old Houston boy dead of apparent carbon monoxide poisoning from an emergency generator. - Legitimate

Louisiana — six, including a 16-year-old boy trapped in rising water. - Legitimate

Tennessee — two, both golfers killed by a falling tree. - Illegitimate, because seriously, how bad could the conditions have been for them to be out playing golf? 

Arkansas — one, a woman killed by a tree falling on a mobile home. - Legitimate

Ohio — six, including five by falling trees and one person electrocuted while working on a generator. - 5 Legitimate, 1 Illegitimate, because electrocuting onesself while doing something you're obviously not trained for, is not storm related.

Indiana — seven, including a father and son killed helping children escape from a ditch. - 2 Legitimate, 5 still in question

Illinois — two, including an elderly man found in a flooded backyard. - 1 Legitimate, 1 still in question

Missouri — four, including a woman struck by a tree limb and an elderly man suspected of drowning in a flooded yard. - 2 Legitimate, 2 still in question

Kentucky — one, a 10-year-old boy struck by a tree limb while mowing a lawn. - Illegitimate, because if it's nice enough to mow the lawn, you can't call it a storm death

Pennsylvania — one, a 46-year-old man struck by tree limb while helping remove a large tree from a house. - Illegitimate, obviously the storm had already passed by this time, this falls under the person doing something stupid category.  If you don't know how to remove a tree properly, call a professional.

So my tally is:

28 definate deaths from Ike, 5 deaths due to idiocy instead of Ike, and 8 unknowns (not enough information provided to make any determination).
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« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2008, 09:30:07 AM »

inflated, or confused info.  the second is the more likely.  in this country we demand instant info on any subject we choose to 'google'.  we expect our news to be accurate and to be complete.  when the press intentionally slants stories, i cut them no slack.  they do that by choice.  when they do not get numbers in a disaster, i don't worry about it to much.  we will be revising numbers for months.  it will probably be weeks before every area is even walked and evaluated.  it is a monster of a task, and one i did not understand until i saw what katrina did to the Mississippi coast.  that was a true disaster.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2008, 10:29:02 AM »

At first the numbers slowly trickle in, and then there will be a big influx. Then they will trickle in again. And then there might be the very few that turn up next year.

I mostly preview the head lines on the Yahoo news page. Once there was four headlines with four different numbers. I think this had to do with the floods earlier this year.
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« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2008, 06:09:21 PM »

[Indiana — seven, including a father and son killed helping children escape from a ditch.]
[ 2 Legitimate, 5 still in question]

[5 deaths due to idiocy instead of Ike]

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE....

People are dead, regardless of how, and you want to trivialize it as statistics. Unbelievable.

[...including a father and son killed...]

Who happens to be the father and broth of my friend of my family.
She works in a funeral home that compassionately laid many members of my family to rest.
Now unfortunately she has to stand as family next to TWO caskets.
And why? because someone wasn't a responsible adult watching their children.

I don't think anyone outside the situation is in a position to JUDGE what is idiocy and what might be good samaritan in nature. We all do stupid things or have an accident, fortunately it doesn't normally cost us our lives.

I don't know, maybe if you have a child swirling down a drain towards certain death, I hope someone doesn't reconsider because someone on some forum might construe the statistic of their death to be inflated for press. Just unbelievable the level of compassion. 

Might just want to think about this when the most petty thing to worry about in your life is how many knot holes your blessed hive bodies might have, might you be able to pawn them off on someone on ebay.

Utter disgust...



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« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2008, 07:36:09 PM »

i believe the comment was about which deaths could be laid on the storm, and which were deaths that might have happened anyway.  it is a fact of human nature that deaths not directly touching us are nothing more than statistics.  it is also a fact that when people do stupid things, many have a hard time feeling sorry for them.  they are no more or less dead.  the people who love them grieve just as much.  the rest of us tend to scratch our heads...

chill....no one was directing comments at people you care about. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2008, 11:22:47 PM »

[...it is a fact of human nature that deaths not directly touching us are nothing more than statistics.]

Well, that's not my human nature.
And I think when it does become your nature, you loose touch that people aren't a number, there's a life behind all that. And that life probably struggled for a lot of things and often for a lot of people. If that's a lost sensitivity in your life I feel sorry that you can't feel that. And when your 'number' is up, I hope the friends and family around you don't just chalk you up to death #492 for the year.

Not so many years ago, when it wasn't common news to hear people killed in war by the dozens, there was much more sensitivity for the single person killed in a house fire (even if they were smoking in bed).
Why? Because the loss of some to death isn't a matter for the dead person to cope with, its the hardship that their friends and family have to endure.

This acceptance of death en mass is what drives the press to attempt to inflate the numbers to cause shock to you. Its disgusting that it had come to that, and its gross that the media recognizes the complacency enough to try to compensate for it by exaggerating. I suppose what is worse is that you don't realize why that is happening and think it's just 'a fact of human nature'.

I just wonder how families would react if you apaproached them and told them you don't accept their family members death as a statistic of the storm.  I suppose that they would really care less.
They'd probably pity the fact you never have nor never will enjoy their loved one's company.

[...it is also a fact that when people do stupid things, many have a hard time feeling sorry for them.]

Well thanks for the facts, I just didn't realize everyone here was qualified to judge the acts of others and reasons for doing what it was they were doing. I just don't know how everyone can trust what is published, and yet know all the surrounding details to that which might not be published.

To an electrican, being electrocuted in your basement trying to pump the in-rush of water might be stupid. But I suppose if everything you own is in the basement and years of heritage, you might in certain circles be a hero. Purhaps you might find it stupid to live in a basement, but some folks its all they might afford. Stupidity is realitive, and just because you find two people that might agree with you that something is stupid it doesn't make so. It just might you and the other two people have just a equal, yet little, understanding of the situation.

The numbers as numbers are worthless... and yet you'd rather be here mux it up instead of helping people that suffer some loss. Well, I've been doing it all day long, and I am wet and I'm tired, and I'm disappointed at the attitudes here. I just hope you never have to suffer the same losses, but maybe it might be what you need to change your tune and appreciation for people and things they hold dear. 

I'm not out to get an enflamed response from you, I hope to open your eyes as just how passive we have become to deaths in great quantity. Purhaps if we realize how cold we are turning, we might gain different sympathies that result in an action rather than stand around and [...scratch our heads].
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« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2008, 12:19:04 AM »

you won't get an inflamed response from me.  i have read enough of your posts to know that you often over-react to what is said.  if you want to take every death in the world personally, that is your right.  i can not deal with all the death and destruction i have seen if i personalize it all.  i find most people to be the same to one degree or another.  cope (or don't) the way you want to.  it's your ulcer.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JP
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« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2008, 12:27:31 AM »

I'm not feeling the love!!!


...JP
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« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2008, 12:41:50 AM »

Oh shut-up JP....

You're one of the people they are calling stupid....

Its your choice to live 600 feet below sea level, you if house floods and your dog floats away its your own stupid fault!  rolleyes

In fact, you are probably living there to gain some fame by being a statistic.  tongue

[I'm not feeling the love!!!]
I do give you points for at least 'trying' to feel love.  grin
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« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2008, 12:49:14 AM »

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I'm not feeling the love!!!

hummmm  but i bet you recognize what you are feeling!!   grin

Quote
You're one of the people they are calling stupid....


no he isn't.  i have no doubt that there are stupid people close at hand, but he's not one of them.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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