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Author Topic: SHB Observation  (Read 8056 times)

Offline Metrobee

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SHB Observation
« on: August 30, 2008, 04:50:15 PM »
I just made an observation regarding the SHB: Earlier this year I drilled a 3/4" hole in the center of the top brood box per some instructions I read in a beekeeping book. The theory was it would increase air circulation in the hive. Soon after drilling the hole I found my first SHB. For whatever reason, I didn't link the two. I began trapping them in AJ's beetle eater but was still finding them hiding under the inner cover. On August 21, I killed about 20 under the inner cover and found about 12 in the beetle trap. On August 24 I decided there might be a correlation between the hole I had drilled and the SHB problem as I had never seen a bee come in or out of that hole and theorized that it was unprotected and thus an easy entrance for the SHB. That same day I closed the hole with a wine cork. Today I went into the hive to administer a powdered sugar shake against Varroa and only found 1 SHB hiding under the inner cover and 3 SHB in the trap. My theory is that too many openings may give the SHB unhindered access into the hive. It might be interesting to do an experiment with hives having only bottom entrances vs. hives having both bottom and top entrances--would the SHB load be the same or different within the same bee yard? Of course, this all may very well be coincidental and have nothing at all to do with the hole I drilled and plugged up. Any ideas?

Offline sc-bee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 05:20:47 PM »
>Of course, this all may very well be coincidental and have nothing at all to do with the hole I drilled and plugged up.

A guy here in cooperation w/ a university changed his entrances to just a piece of PVC pipe. Don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Some folks don't like SBB for the same reason you stated.

All I know is I hate them :-x!
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Offline dhood

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 09:06:30 PM »
You may be on to something there :?, if they will seek out unguarded entrances than you could do as you stated and build a trap that they will enter into. It wouldn't catch all of them but it may help in controlling the numbers.

Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 11:48:41 PM »
I have a little problem with SHB.  I have watched them late in the evening (seems like they are most active then) fly right into my bottom entrance which is only 3/4 x 3/4 inches.  They are so quick and the bees attack them but it does little good and they just run right in.  I also think my 1/8 SBB is letting the smaller ones in. 

Here is my question:  Why has no one invented a chemical scent trap for these things?  Do they find their sexual partners by scent?  We have scent traps for everything except SHB and wax moth.  Seems odd to me with Billions attributed to pollination.
Stephen Stewart
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Offline TwT

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 02:45:27 AM »
if you want to catch some get a empty hive with a pollen patty, you can catch buckets full in a few days especially this time of year. seems the best attractant to them is pollen patties. down south you just put enough in to last the bee's a day or two, if you put a whole one in they will lay eggs on the pattie and a few days beetles and larva everywhere.
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 11:19:41 AM »
So could you put in the pollen patty, kill the adults by smashing them, and then put the patty in the freezer to kill the eggs, take it out and just keep doing this over and over?  Any chance the bees would go after the patty too?
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Offline TwT

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 11:38:05 AM »
not sure but you can try, I believe that some bee's can handle SHB's and others can't (could be wrong but thats what I believe), it just like some bee's being resistant to V-mites and T-mites, I haven't had a problem with SHB's or mites, maybe because the hives I have are mostly from removals, now I see SHB's in my hives but no problems with them. I do kill what I can like most everyone. 
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
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Offline Metrobee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2008, 11:57:32 AM »
Update: My latest hive inspection revealed zero SHB's hiding under the inner cover and 3 were drowned in the trap. All this since I reduced the number of entrances from 2 to 1. I agree about the scent traps, it would be great for one to come out on the market. It wouldn't necessarily need to be positioned in the hive either, the trap could hang outside the hive in the beeyard and act as a lure to beetles in the hive to go out and seek the trap as well as to those heading for the hive to make a pit-stop at the trap.

Offline rast

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 09:56:32 PM »
 My observation so far, four hives get full sun, (Fl.) two only get late PM sun. The four getting full sun have no beetles detected. The two shaded ones have beetles. I have read elsewhere that they don't like full sun. 
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Offline greenismycolor

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 02:16:11 AM »
Hi all

What happens to the Beetle in the winter months?

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Offline sc-bee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2008, 10:21:40 PM »
They winter in the cluster :(!
John 3:16

Offline greenismycolor

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2008, 02:44:19 AM »
thanks sc-bee....but that is not what i wanted to hear grrrrrrrrr.... :(I only have one hive left from these little booooggggers + robbing by hornets, bumble bees, yellow jackets. It is war!!!!!

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Offline SgtMaj

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2008, 03:16:26 AM »
SHB's are kinda like wax moths... although, yeah, they pile on, they are more a symptom of an already weakened hive, as opposed to the (sole) cause.  If all else is right, they'll kick SHB's butts.

Offline sc-bee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 10:52:24 PM »
>If all else is right, they'll kick SHB's butts.

I disagree!!!

I feel this is true in some cases not all. Just like having bees in full sun. I think it helps but dosen't necesdsiarly elimnate them. Soil content sometimes has a bearing on the issue. I think alot depends on the agression of the bee. Some bees just don't chase and corral them. At least that has been my observation.

A stong hive definitely does help.

What have others  observations been?
John 3:16

Offline TwT

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 11:31:28 PM »
from what I have seen its the bee's that handle or doesn't handle the SHB, SHB's can take over a strong healthy hive in a week but this is rare but does happen but a strong hive does help, sun helps but I think soil helps more, SHB's just don't like red clay, I can have a weak nuc here and not have a problem but in most area's it would be doomed fast.

me and a few others here in Ga have been talking about this awhile, certain bee's handling SHB's and others don't, from what we seen there are just some hive's of bee's that beetle's dont affect like they do others. but any week hive in certain area's are doomed know matter what bee it is.
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Amateurs built the ark,
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Offline greg spike

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2008, 08:59:56 AM »
I had a minor outbreak a few months back. One thing I observed, they hide well in the bottom rail of split bottom frames. Sure, the bees will probably plug them up, but it takes time, giving them time to reproduce. I'll only buy groved frames from now on.

As far as control, I did signboard/borax traps, ground treatment with DE and crowded my weaker hive. I think the crowding really worked best. I went from seeing 10-20 beetles to one or two. The DE killed the five or six ant mounds within a ten foot radius of the hives, so hopefully it's getting any larvae that manage to get out.

I just don't think 100 percent control is possible.

Offline sc-bee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2008, 10:18:35 AM »
Some folks are also opposed to screened bottom boards because they think it allows two much free access. I will remove screened bottom boards if I begin to see too many shb.
John 3:16

Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2008, 12:41:58 PM »
sc-bee

I am starting to wonder if my SBB are letting the smaller SHB in the hive, too.
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2008, 02:00:47 PM »
sc-bee

I am starting to wonder if my SBB are letting the smaller SHB in the hive, too.

Different areas, I find that my SBB actually keeps the beetles OUT of the hive.  The 1/8 inch screen will let all of the beetles except maybe some really large ones through.  The bees will chase the beetles out of the hive, through the SBB, where they will actually freeze to death.  We aren't freezing yet but will be soon,  I usually find a few on the bottom board .
Rick

Offline sc-bee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 10:24:33 PM »
Freezing is the one thing I don't have to worry about :)!
John 3:16

Offline dhood

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 12:14:52 AM »
I have hives with SBB and ones without. I have seen them go right thru the screen. But based upon what Iv'e seen this year, the ones with the SBB are dealing with the SHB's better.

Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2008, 08:48:28 AM »
I'm about to move my weak hive into a OB hive in the garage (enclosed).  Do you generally see a reduction in SHB because of the length of the entrance (tube) that goes to the outside?  Mine is about 1.5 feet thru the wall.   I am going to try to remove all the SHB I can find on the frames before I put them in the OB.  My probelm will be when I see a SHB through the glass and will not be able to SMASH IT!   Because the hive is at the house, I may cork and uncork the tube each night and morning until it gets cold enough that SHB are gone.
Stephen Stewart
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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2008, 03:28:14 PM »
I'm about to move my weak hive into a OB hive in the garage (enclosed).  Do you generally see a reduction in SHB because of the length of the entrance (tube) that goes to the outside?  Mine is about 1.5 feet thru the wall.   I am going to try to remove all the SHB I can find on the frames before I put them in the OB.  My probelm will be when I see a SHB through the glass and will not be able to SMASH IT!   Because the hive is at the house, I may cork and uncork the tube each night and morning until it gets cold enough that SHB are gone.

No change...the SHB scoot through the tube like anything else!

My observations: SHB like the warmer area, they will stay there all day long, corking would be ineffective.  Make sure that there are no areas where the bees can't get to.

If you can go with Plexi instead of glass then you will have the opportunity to drill holes and remove/kill the little beasts.  (it is more $$$).  I have two small areas that the bees can't get to: one along the side between the glass and the wood, and that was nice because they'd squeeze in there, then I'd just push the glass in and smash the beetles.  The other are was next to a frame and I drilled some small holes and vacuumed them out :)

The key is to keep them well fed and not stressed, that will get the SHB going more than anything will.

Rick
Rick

Offline ArmucheeBee

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2008, 11:07:15 AM »
I put the bees in the OB hive last night.  It went really easy.  I only lost about 30-40 bees that I could not round up.  I see one SHB now.  I have the white PF 120 frames and that makes them really stand out.  I also have two black PF frames.  Don't buy those if you have SHB.  You can see queen eggs easier but not beetles.  So tonight after they calm down I'm going in with my little flat bladed screwdriver and smashing some SHB. 

I also may move my queen.  She is on an old comb frame of honey I put at the very top of eight frames and there is an empty frame in between her and the drawn frames.  I wanted to weed out this frame after the brood hatches and get rid of it.  I wonder if she will come down on her own?  Any thoughts.  8-frame med. OB.
Stephen Stewart
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Offline SgtMaj

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2008, 07:18:34 AM »
Re the SBB, if you're concerned about it, seal it off with a mite count board and something to cover the open side.  When I built my SBB, I made the open-side face forward, and built a removable landing pad that seals the SBB off.  The seal isn't 100% perfect, but it would prevent most things from coming through.

Offline greg spike

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2008, 12:34:23 PM »
Yeah, but even if perfectly sealed a sbb could give them tons of room to hide inside the hive. They don't seem to have much of a problem getting through the front door.

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2008, 11:20:06 PM »
True, but you could coat the mite board in some kind of substance that kills them when they come in contact with it.  Would have to be very strong though, wouldn't want half-dead beetles tracking whatever it is through the hive.

Offline SlickMick

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2009, 08:46:43 AM »
if you want to catch some get a empty hive with a pollen patty, you can catch buckets full in a few days especially this time of year. seems the best attractant to them is pollen patties. down south you just put enough in to last the bee's a day or two, if you put a whole one in they will lay eggs on the pattie and a few days beetles and larva everywhere.

This brings up the potential to use a control measure for the SHB outside the hive by lacing the pollen pattie with an appropriate bait.

Of concern however, (disregarding the use of a chemical bait) would be the introduction of large numbers of SHB into the region of an apiary. I sure would not want to have to deal with increased numbers in the vicinity of my hives having sufficient numbers at present for me to be continuously vigilant. It may however present an opportunity to attract the SHB away from a hive/s if bait stations were positioned around the perimeter of the apiary.
On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2009, 07:48:33 PM »
if you want to catch some get a empty hive with a pollen patty, you can catch buckets full in a few days especially this time of year. seems the best attractant to them is pollen patties. down south you just put enough in to last the bee's a day or two, if you put a whole one in they will lay eggs on the pattie and a few days beetles and larva everywhere.

This brings up the potential to use a control measure for the SHB outside the hive by lacing the pollen pattie with an appropriate bait.

Of concern however, (disregarding the use of a chemical bait) would be the introduction of large numbers of SHB into the region of an apiary. I sure would not want to have to deal with increased numbers in the vicinity of my hives having sufficient numbers at present for me to be continuously vigilant. It may however present an opportunity to attract the SHB away from a hive/s if bait stations were positioned around the perimeter of the apiary.

And run the risk of poisoning your own hives that attempt to make use of the bait patty.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline SlickMick

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Re: SHB Observation
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2009, 08:10:50 PM »
That is true :oops: unless the bait station allowed only the SHB access ie a 1.5mm entry.
On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html