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Author Topic: Parents of school kids  (Read 3948 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: August 29, 2008, 05:44:01 AM »

I just have to wonder how many of you always take the side of the school against your kids? You know.... the teacher sends the kid to the principle's office for some stupid little something. The principle then calls you, you go in and politely listen, nodding you head in agreement. Then tell your child to bow down to the wishes of the school.

Come on.... How many of you do that?

Back when I had kids in school they were always calling me for some little infraction the kids might have done. Many times I felt the school was wrong wrong wrong. And I certainly let them know about it. I don't know... I guess I feel schools shouldn't be run like Nazi concentration camps. I always feel the constitution of the USA should reach into the schools also.

There is this TV channel "Tru" and there is one of those stupid shows on there called the "principle's office". (or something like that) I watched a bit of it around 8:45 PM. Now here it is 4:39 in the morning and I am still disturbed, angry, befuddled, by what I saw.

If those were my kids the first thing would have been me telling them to turn the cameras off and get out. Then proceeded to tell the principle just how wrong he was. 
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2008, 06:51:27 AM »

My son isn't old enough for school yet, but the things I see in the news are so wrong it's just crazy... and you bet I would let them know about it if it were my son on the wrong side of their lunacy.  It's not just in the schools, but the school system does seem to be conducive to retaining looney people... I certainly don't know of any other job where tenure is given so that you can't be fired for screwing up.
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2008, 07:28:29 AM »

  the school called my once to come get my daughter back in the 70s because she led a protest and the whole class walked out.. I told them to keep her right there and let her take the bus home, why should she come home and watch TV all day.

 When I was in school and did anything that the school didn't approve of or disrupted the class room, i wound up on the floor or got bounced off the wall and no one called my house, if they did and i was in the wrong, i would be in more trouble. If anyone threw things around on the bus or started any trouble, the driver stopped the bus and the trouble maker got off no matter where it was or what the weather was. the teachers and driver had controll then, not the students. we had rules and everyone obeyed or they went home. I don't agree with the old methods of punishment, but they worked better than todays methods, one trip to the principlas office was usually enough back then.
  Back then, I could carry a knive, bring a gun to school to work on in the shop.
          I don't think 6 ear rings in my nose or green hair would have went over very good, also we wore our pants above our rearends, not 5 sizes to big and below,our hats came off at the door. If someone was using fowl language, they usually got a fat lip. Today most kids are wearing head phones listening to music or talking n a cell phone, when i stop in at the school today, it looks more like a carnival to see who can look the weirdest and swear the loudest.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2008, 10:11:48 AM »

Yep. When the child is in the wrong then I believe the punishment should fit the wrong doing. But when the child is wrongly accused, wrongly punished, and the punishment is excessive is what I am talking about. It is those times that the kids don't really have a voice. And of course the schools stance is that it is never wrong. And when the parent takes them to the mat over it, then the child is marked.... and they are going after him/her on every little thing. Even if it is something they made up and bot in the school rule book. Yes there was one time I used the police book against the school. Showed them where they were not going by the book but adding to or taking away as they pleased.

With kids of my own in the school I learned that all the "Bill of Rights" was suspended. First amendment  rolleyes forget it. 4th 5th 6th and 8th.... JUST GONE  shocked
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2008, 10:21:09 AM »

I agree, I send my kids to charter schools. Not private and don't cost anything extra just a charter. That way you get small class sizes, better teachers and better environment. I am disgusted by the teachers that are aloud to teach in our public school systems, but it is our own fault. Teachers go to school, get their degree and then get railroaded by the public system, have to deal with idiot principas and vice principle, and to top it off are offered less than a Wendy's line cook makes for wages.....
Got to love government run education....
Can't wait for the health care system to kick in....
Sorry, don't want to open that can of worms again
F
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2008, 12:03:26 PM »

Three places the constitution doesn't apply  School, Work and the Military,  School is where you learn about the Constitution,  Work? You have the right to work or get fired.  And the Military defend the Constitution and democracy  And I would never agree with anyone saying my child had done wrong if they hadn't.
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 08:06:27 PM »

Works both ways.

When my oldest son was in 4th grade, I got a call from his "very concerned" principal about his "disturbing behavior". Turns out they wanted to suspend him because he was drawing pictures of guns in school, and apparently his teacher had become concerned because he said he was drawing pictures of his gun. No, I'm not kidding. They wanted to suspend him for that.

I took one look at it, said "Yeah, that's his pistol. It's a Ruger 22/45. We go to the range and he shoots it just about every weekend." I thought the principal was going to faint upon realizing that she was in the presence of an actual, evil firearm owner right there in her office - one so evil in fact, that he was indoctrinating his own child by letting him touch a magic wonder death wand. So I added "If I hear anymore about disciplining my child for this nonsense I'll have you pansies in court so fast your head will still be spinning when they declare you incompetent." Then I stormed out.

That was about the last I heard of that. cool

On the other hand, both my boys have a little bit of hellraiser in 'em (I have no idea where they get it from rolleyes) and both got in the occasional mischief. Nothing major, but when it came up I always backed up the principal, and then applied a little hand-delivered reinforcement when I got them home.

But from what I've seen, parents are the problem just as often as the educators, if not more so. Schools are filled with hyper-protective parents with snot-nosed, smartassed, self-important little brats who are in the principal's office screaming bloody murder every time little miss (or mister) perfect gets called down for something.
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 09:14:07 PM »

I drive a school bus and I can tell you from experience that YOUR children (most but not all) act differently when out of your sight. Some parents when confronted about their children's behavior, never believe their child could be at fault even when shown the video tape.

Trust me, we have a whole lot more to do than pick on a well behaved child.

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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2008, 09:59:36 PM »

I used to work for a cell phone company... and while I worked there, I had a vice principal of a nearby school come in with her phone that she had destroyed via the toilet... she actually brought in a box of phone she said had been confiscated from kids at school and asked me if I would activate one of them on her personal account.  Some of them, really just don't seem to know right from wrong.  She didn't even get it when I explained to her how that's larceny... so I just told her I couldn't be a party to it.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 09:26:31 AM »

So little Billy was a good kid up until the 6th grade. Than something happened.

BULLIES!!! shocked

Little Billy was just minding his own business, as he always did, never bothered anyone, when suddenly he was hit by a spit ball that was shot through a straw belonging to Butch. Billy does not know why butch and his friends have chosen him to pick on. In fact he will never know. But seems he has somehow been targeted. Never suspected he was bully bait.

After a few more spit balls, he politely raises his hand.

Teacher ask what is it.

"Butch is throwing spit balls."

Of course Butch denies it and now Billy has really set himself up for attack. Now one of Butches friends joins in. Again Billy tells (on John this time). Again denied and nothing is done. The teacher even reprimands Billy for disturbing the class.

Later Billy is confronted by the bullies and threatened for telling on them. The little squealer. Who does he think he is.

Billy tells his parent. Parents tell Billy to tell his teacher. Billy says he did and nothing was done. Parents tell Billy the Bullies will get tired of it soon and stop.

But it doesn't. This goes on and on. Billy even collected the spit balls and presented them to the principle. Again everything was denied. No one had seen anyone doing what Billy claimed they were doing. (other kids don't want the bullies starting on them)

So one day a spit ball nails Billy right in the ear and Billy jumps up and throws a book at Butch and bings him on the head. Billy is sent to the office. Billy's Dad is called. Billy is in big trouble and is punished for his crime.

Now Billy is labeled a trouble maker.

And this goes on year after year. Billy gets into fights. His grades fall off. Sometime in high school he drops out. He can't get a good job and can't keep the jobs he does get.

Fed up with life he puts an end to it all.

Epitaph reads, "Billy was a good kid up until the sixth grade."
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 10:26:57 AM »

Well you're just a little ray of sunshine, aren't you? cool
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 08:08:07 PM »

My Son was having issues like that but we solved it, moved out to the country and now home school. Its great, getting the Constanitina Wire around the yard and searching for escape tunnels is time consuming but his grades have never been better. rolleyes
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2008, 01:31:31 AM »

Dealing with bullies is easy... just fight them.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2008, 08:46:37 AM »

Yep! Then you're in trouble and deemed a trouble maker by bus drivers and teachers.

Or in the case of my son, all three of them are bigger than you and they have you on the ground beating the crap out of you.
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2008, 02:14:41 PM »

Yep! Then you're in trouble and deemed a trouble maker by bus drivers and teachers.

Or in the case of my son, all three of them are bigger than you and they have you on the ground beating the crap out of you.

That's ok too... even little guys can learn to fight... next time, tell him to hit first, and hit hard... aim for the nose or eyes... even if he gets the snot beaten out of him after the first hit... a bloody nose or black eye every time they try to pick on him will make them stop, and a willingness to defend himself or others that they might pick on, even though he knows he might get beat, will earn their respect in time.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 08:00:13 PM »

He was ambushed. Didn't see it coming.
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2008, 05:44:55 AM »

He was ambushed. Didn't see it coming.

He'll see them at school the next day though.
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2008, 07:31:16 AM »



That's ok too... even little guys can learn to fight... next time, tell him to hit first, and hit hard... aim for the nose or eyes... even if he gets the snot beaten out of him after the first hit... a bloody nose or black eye every time they try to pick on him will make them stop, and a willingness to defend himself or others that they might pick on, even though he knows he might get beat, will earn their respect in time.

   Amen, usually a bullie will not bother you again if they know you will stand your ground and will take a beating to do it.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2008, 08:32:36 AM »

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

As for my son, one of the guys kicking on him saw the principle come out the door and those three took off. My son was given the usual punishment for fighting, which he wasn't fighting, he was just getting beat up. Not seeing the other boys for himself, the principle did nothing towards punishment. Just a warning that if they were ever caught then they would be dealt with.

And guess who got their butt kicked away from school for telling?
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2008, 09:32:16 AM »

I'll wade in since I've taught high school 8 years and primary for 3.  Your kids are out of control (most of 'em anyway).  They have no rules at home and when they come to school they think it should be the same.  They are spoiled and selfish no matter their economic background.  I don't call parents about problems many times because I will not get any support from the home.  The kids are always right!!  Bleeding hearts took corporal punishment out of the school and that was the end.  I got one paddling in school and that was all it took for me not to get another one, because when I got home I was unable to sit for a week.  School has to be run "like a concentration camp" because there is essential no recourse for bad behavior--what can we do except call you?  They are here to learn, not to entertain or disrupt others.  Maybe home school is a good alternative for some who think otherwise.  The republicans passed a law here that said anybody can home school--it was great because all those whose children could not behave went home!!!  Tired of being called, I guess?   Don't get me started about the collapse of the family and divorce and children out of wedlock.  My rate in class right now is 75%.  Is that the school's fault too?  Make no mistake those three thing have a tremendous affect on children.  Finished.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2008, 10:42:43 AM »

Your kids are out of control (most of 'em anyway).

I drive a school bus and I can tell you from experience that YOUR children (most but not all) act differently when out of your sight.

Here is a teacher and bus driver saying the same thing. But as you read further you see that the "not all" doesn't apply to the rest of what they say. This is what I am trying to get across. The "BAD" kids suck in the "GOOD" kids. Now the good kids are punished. They got caught the one time they stepped out of line. Where as the bad kids, who are use to sneakiness and getting away with things go unpunished. And as soon as these "good" kids get caught, the faculty takes the above stance. (they are not good, they are bad little goody two shoes that have mommy and daddy wrapped around their little finger blah blah blah blah....)

I am not talking about just my kids. My kids got punished, deserved it, and I extended the punishment at home. But there were times they were not at fault.

But I suppose that goes along with what people say about wrongly convicted criminals. They might not be guilty of this crime but they have probably done something to deserve it.

Back when I was in school. I would see people get punished for things they didn't do, good kids, just because the teacher "THOUGHT" they did it. And some times another student would advise the teacher that that person had nothing to do with it, and then that student was also labeled a trouble maker and punished, just for saying the teacher was wrong.

When you (everybody) and even more so teachers, principles, bus drivers, throw all the kids into one pot, that being all kids are bad, then the system is failing them. There is more to learning than reading, ritiing, and rithmatick. Are you teaching them to distrust authority? They will be punished wrongly, or excessively.

Now to one of the examples I saw on the television show.

It is always wrong to be talking in class. If the kid was in trouble for that than great, wonderful, he deserved it. If he was trying to answer questions directed at him in a language the teacher couldn't understand and refused to answer her in English, then deservedly he should be punished.

BUT.... Mr. Principle was telling this kid that he could not speak Turkish to his Turkish friends not only in class but not in the hallway or anywhere on school property.

Come to Texas and tell them they can't speak Spanish to their friends.  rolleyes 
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2008, 11:28:33 AM »

I agree with everything JerryMac said.  I by no means mean ALL kids.  I have the best class I have ever had this year.  Where we are failing is in common sense.  It's all this equity crap.  If both kids are fighting then they both get the same punishment no matter what-BS.  But the way that came about is administrators got tired of being constantly harassed by parents who would not believe their child was wrong--so just throw them all in the same boat--like you said.  There is a lack of backbone at the top.  I'm old school-I guess.   That not speaking English in the school is rubbish--sounds like communism.
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Stephen Stewart
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2008, 01:49:42 PM »

It all comes back to the parents.  If parents really talk and listen to their kids, then the teachers won't automatically assume that the kid's bad and his/her parents are worse.  If the parents show up for conferences, are involved and help out with schoolwork and seem to genuinely care, then these issues shouldn't come up very often.  And yes, there are some exceptions.

I know my kid's teachers well.  I know my kids well.  I listen to them, and try very hard to balance out the competeing sides.  And yes, most of the time my kids are wrong (5-20 y-o's don't have the best judgement!)

The teachers problems now days has more to do with the parents not every believing that little bobby can do any wrong.

But then again I'm choosing the school and paying a lot of money to send them there.
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2008, 02:14:04 PM »

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2008, 02:37:27 PM »

But the way that came about is administrators got tired of being constantly harassed by parents who would not believe their child was wrong--so just throw them all in the same boat--like you said.  There is a lack of backbone at the top.

I have to respectfully disagree with the source, though I certainly agree that the problem is a lack of common sense in the school administrations.  I think the source of that problem though, is all the "zero-tolerance" crap.  Zero tolerance leaves zero room for common sense.

Here's an example of zero tolerance in action:
Several years ago at a school kinda near here, a student had a seviere asthmatic attack, but had left her rescue inhaler at home.  Another asthmatic student thought fast and gave her his rescue inhaler to save her life.  He was expelled over the incident, because he was "distributing prescription drugs".

Now, I wish I could say that principal and school board lost their jobs over that, but they didn't.  How can we expect our kids to learn how to think for themselves when our school officials refuse to do so?
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2008, 03:23:22 PM »

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.

I guess I will have to go into detail.

Day #1. Bully calls kid names and shoves him into locker.

#2 Bully trips kid in hall way

#3 Bully shoves kid

So on and so forth...  just shoves trips name calling

Finally Kid gets mad and jumps onto Bully and gets in some really good hits.

Next day three guys jump on kid and he spends some time in hospital.

And that is better some how than the daily shoving and picking? What is your reasoning here?
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2008, 04:27:23 PM »

I am a school bus driver and have been for the last 18 years. Around here the school administrators are responsible for discipline both in school and on the bus. In the elementary schools its the principal and in the high school its the assistant principals. Some of these administrators are caring individuals and are willing to take the time and make an effort to thoroughly investigate bullying incidents and to punish the wrong doers properly. Others are just interested in taking the minimum action they feel is necessary to cover their own ass.
If I had a kid in school (all my kids are adults) and my kid was subject to bullying and then disciplined even though he/she did nothing wrong I would be in the principals office reading him/her the riot act. If the bully(s) was not disciplined I would do the same. If the principal did not satisfy my demands I would meet with the school superintendent.  My next step would be a lawyer. Teaching your kid to be violent where violence is against the rules is poor parenting.
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2008, 04:37:03 PM »

Is this about bullys, teachers, or the police?

Spitballs or beatings?

Is this a real situation or a hypothetical?

Getting in trouble for goofing around or getting in a scuffle is a lot different from a ruptured spleen and assault charges.

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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2008, 06:51:40 PM »

These are real situations. These are the situations that cause things to happen, bad things, think Columbine. Many many years ago a kid shot another over 25 cents at one if my old schools.

The superintendents and school boards and cops all say basically the same thing people have said here. Your kids are not the cute cuddly things you think they are. You can't arrest or prosecute under aged kids. Here the school policy claims that the school, on school days, is responsible for the child from the time it leaves the home in the morning until the time it gets back home in the afternoon. You are fighting the system. Some of us can't afford lawyers, time off from work and all the other crap it would take to take care of the problem legally.

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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2008, 07:41:11 PM »

so you're saying that money is more important than keeping the kids safe and raising them right? Maybe money is the root of all evil.
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2008, 10:09:16 PM »

so you're saying that money is more important than keeping the kids safe and raising them right? Maybe money is the root of all evil.

 huh huh What  huh huh
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2008, 11:27:27 PM »

I guess I will have to go into detail.

Day #1. Bully calls kid names and shoves him into locker.

#2 Bully trips kid in hall way

#3 Bully shoves kid

So on and so forth...  just shoves trips name calling

Finally Kid gets mad and jumps onto Bully and gets in some really good hits.

Next day three guys jump on kid and he spends some time in hospital.

And that is better some how than the daily shoving and picking? What is your reasoning here?

My reasoning comes from having grown up with that scenario... being the one that got picked on frequently, at least until I outgrew my antagonizers... anyway, the ONE thing that I truely regret from my school experience, is not haivng decked one of those bullies when he was picking on another kid.  Even if I had spent a month in the hospital, it would have been worth it.
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« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2008, 04:49:16 AM »

I will agree that some of us can do something totally stupid and get away with it. But it doesn't work in all situations for everyone.

One of my tormentors wanted me to meet him at a certain place after school. I told him "nope, that won't do." I then told him what door I went out of after school and the route I took to get home. And if he wanted to kick my but he could meet me anywhere along there.

I left school just as I told the guy and sure enough he was waiting for me. I walked up tp him and stopped and waited. After a bit I told him he needed to get started kicking my *** because I really needed to get home and get my chores done. He did nothing. I said that I had to go and went around him and proceeded home. And he never bothered me again. It is true he was one that would torment someone as long as they were afraid of him. He either thought I was totally nuts or there was something there he better not mess with. But that was me against one guy.

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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2008, 05:42:39 PM »

You know, the thing to remember about childhood is that it's a temporary, treatable condition - and most people get over it eventually. cool
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2008, 06:32:06 PM »

From personal experience what you are saying is wrong. When you have a bully with a few friends, they will give back twice what you give them. If you get one of them by himself and even manage to best him, the next day... or in the future... you will be visited by him and his friends.

That's what we're trying to tell you... he's gotta be willing to get beat up... his only goal is to get 1 good punch in... because he's going to get beat up anyway.
Obviously you were never one of the ones that was taking the beating.these jerks don't go away just because you got in 1 good hit,and you rarely ever catch them alone.
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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 12:32:31 AM »

My approach was that if the Principle wanted to punish my kid for fighting in school it was okay as long as everyone else involved was punished too.  If my child was the only one caught and selected for punishment I would tell the Prinicple he could punish my child at the same time and to the same degree as he punished everyone else involved.  No punishment for others ment no punishment for my child or I would see him in court.   2 of my kids got expelled for 3 days each for fighting, along with 10 other kids.

My kids were not bullies and they were not bullied because they never got punished for being the victim.
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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 09:04:38 AM »

Obviously you were never one of the ones that was taking the beating.these jerks don't go away just because you got in 1 good hit,and you rarely ever catch them alone.

Oh I took a lot of beatings from about 4th grade up into about 8th grade... mostly because I didn't fight back like I should have.  It really doesn't matter if there's one of them or ten of them... you can always get one good shot in before you get pounded to the ground, and since you're going to get pounded into the ground anyway... you might as well blacken one of their eyes... or bloody one of their noses.  Believe me, they will move on to easier prey that won't fight back if you do that every time.
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