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Author Topic: So, a large RV resort is being built next to my apiary  (Read 3687 times)
Bill W.
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« on: August 27, 2008, 04:51:58 PM »

So, a large RV resort is being built next to my apiary

I've got 20+ hives here in the summer and it looks like my property is about to boxed in on two sides by a bunch of RV lots.  I can't help but think this is going to bring challenges.

I'm split between the idea of contacting the developer, explaining the situation, and giving him the opportunity to build fences, buffers, or whatever he sees fit to limit contact - or - keeping my mouth shut and hoping I have located them where few people are likely to notice them.

The thing is, my hives truly saturate this area during the summer.  It was hard to find a dandelion without a bee on it in July.

I'm used to having very few neighbors (who like the bees) so I am now getting nervous.

Any suggestions?
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mtman1849
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 05:57:49 PM »

If they can be placed so they can't be seen I wouldn't think it would be a problem out of sight out of mind.
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 06:50:45 PM »

It's hard to get an idea of just how close these RV's and people are going to be. Could you describe how close they're going to be.

I might venture to ask the contractor if there's any set lay out. Like will they all be facing your area or away?
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 07:23:02 PM »

I don't think I'd worry about the contractors or developers too much. After all, you were there first. It's not your fault if they didn't research the area before developing that particular piece of property - and it doesn't sound like the kind of area where city ordinances are going to be an issue.

Quote from: mtman
If they can be placed so they can't be seen I wouldn't think it would be a problem
Yeah, that's kind of my thinking too. Maybe put up a fence around the hives or some kind of visible barrier.

Just to keep nosy people from poking around, I'd go to the border between your property and the RV park and put up some big white signs that say: PUBLIC NOTICE: BIOHAZARD TOXINS HAVE NOT BEEN PROVEN TO CAUSE IMPOTENCE OR MUTATION AMONG HUMANS.
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Bill W.
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 07:29:21 PM »

They are going to be basically right on top of me.  Ten feet from the property line on 30' spacings.  According to the plot map, they will have two lots within 30' of hives (although they are concealed by brush).  There are going to be about 60 lots directly in the flight path between the bees and the fields they appear to forage most heavily.  (In fact, the field that is being turned into the RV lots is probably very heavily foraged.)

I used to back up to fields on the edge of forest.  Now there will be an RV park between me and the fields, but I don't think the bees are going to fly around the park to get there.

It just seems like the sort of situation that is bound to cause tensions with somebody, but I haven't had any neighbor problems yet, so I may be worrying needlessly.
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Moonshae
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 08:27:52 PM »

How much is the RV park going to reduce the forage? You may not be able to sustain as many hives if a substantial portion of the local forage is being wiped out. Sure, bees forage up to 2 miles away, but the farther they venture, the more energy they need to consume to collect it. You may end up having to move hives, which will reduce the numbers, and negate any impact.
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 09:11:35 PM »

My thoughts...

I'm sure the bees will be ok with the new neighbors...

They were there first...

Don't come complaining to me when you build a nice restraunt next door to my hog farm either!!!

(I really don't have a hog farm, but you catch my drift).

I'm guessing these campers will be wanting to enjoy some nature, how about honeybees, there nature too aren't they...
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rast
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 09:24:09 PM »

 Darn Bill W., welcome to central Fl. The little town I live near outlawed chickens cause the people in the new developments didn't like to hear roosters crowing in the morning. When it comes to politicians, money talks.
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JordanM
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 10:07:11 PM »

Darn Bill W., welcome to central Fl. The little town I live near outlawed chickens cause the people in the new developments didn't like to hear roosters crowing in the morning. When it comes to politicians, money talks.

HaHa, my chickens cross are dirt road every day, which is heavily traveled 2 cars a minute. To get to the neighbors bird feeder, it turns out when the birds don't like some of the feed they scratch it over the edge and there is the chickens to peck it up. And the neighbors don't seem to mind roosters getting them up at 7:00 as long as there is fresh eggs on there way.

But anyways Bill, i know how you are feeling we have a huge RV resort right next to our house about 500 sites. There were huge problems at first people trespassing and go out our driveway and misbehaving in our woods. Until we had the campground put up a fence which i would highly recommend, without a physicall barrier people don't know there limits. The fence runs right down the property line and my beehives are about 30 feet from the fence right were all the campers are. This is my first year having bees here and it seems to be going good most of the people start looking over the fence at me in my beekeeping suite and start to wonder if there is something that they should be worried about over here, so i invite them to jump over the fence and i teach them all about beekeeping and honey bees and they are very interested, this particular guy said that the bees had been earlier cleaning up some sunny D that got split. So i hope that the bees will be fine in this location.

Another thing that worried me at first to was the smoke from the campfires that would be by the bees which doesn't seem to be a problem.

I will post some pics. tomorrow to show how close they really are.
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Pond Creek Farm
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 10:47:40 PM »

keep quiet.  If they complain, it will be because your bees are a legal nuisance.  COming to the nuisance is generally a pretty good defense in most states.  You were there first, and they decided to build an RV park.  Besides, most folks in RV park are temporary enough not to have the clout to cause too much of a fuss.  (we hope)
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Brian
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 10:47:48 PM »

My vote is with the fence or barrier. Better to let people know they are not allowed to go any further. A sign would be helpful also. It is just that your hives are so darn close to the RV park. Good Luck

Annette
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JP
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 10:55:39 PM »

My vote is with the fence or barrier. Better to let people know they are not allowed to go any further. A sign would be helpful also. It is just that your hives are so darn close to the RV park. Good Luck

Annette

I agree, high fence and signage, let them do their own homework, peace.


...JP
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 06:10:27 AM »

Without a fence, I would worry more about the people being a nusiance to you on your own property... but the fence shouldn't be your expense, either.  Telling the RV park developer about your bees is a good way to convince them to bear the cost of the fence.

I would definately tell the developer anyway, as it may change their plans to put an RV park there anyway.  From the sounds of it, the bees would definately spark 1 or 2 complaints to the RV park developer... which isn't really your problem... until they decide to start spraying with chemicals to kill the bees... then it becomes your problem.  Telling the developer might just avoid that whole mess... might even cause the developer to back off from developing that property, or at least get him to move some of the lots farther away from your property, which will still help your property value if nothing else.
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greg spike
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 10:35:01 AM »

It's been my observation that most people in RVs don't actualy get out and enjoy the outdoors much. Strange but seems to hold true.
I wouldn't worry too much yet. Winters on the way; So you've got some time to think about it.
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greg spike
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 10:47:44 AM »

Also, without immediate oil speculation legislation, the price of gas will surge again with heating oil demand this winter. This summer I cruised around for a couple days with my brother in-law, in his RV. I tell you, dropping 300 dollars in gas every day wasn't exactly my idea of a good time.

A fence is always a good idea. Talk to the developer; tell them you'll put up a fence, you've got tons of rusty barb wire and rotten fence posts around your place. They'll want something more attractive, or at least safer, and probably put up their own chain link fence.

Just remeber, you can't please everyone, in this world.
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trixyb
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 11:55:58 AM »

You should register your bee yard which would give you a legal right to have them there. 
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ElDoBill
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 12:00:40 PM »

Take pictures to establish your prior use of your land.  Pictures of your hives before, during and after construction may prove useful later.   
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randydrivesabus
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 12:16:40 PM »

ask the RV park developer to fence in his park.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 03:15:50 PM »

I wouldn't wait to talk to the developer... the longer you wait, the more he or she will be set in his or her plans for the place.  An early conversation might change their plans, a late conversation might only invite trouble.  I can't imagine having an RV park butted up against your property like what you describe would be good for your property value, so I would talk to them and see if they'll move the lots back, or at least build a tall privacy fence that would force your girls up and over them, and would shield your property from having to look at the RV park, and would help retain some of your property value.

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JordanM
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 03:44:53 PM »

Most definitely get the fence if not for the bees than to keep the people off of your land and believe me there will be people all over in your woods without it. We had them put up a chainlink and up by the house they put slats in the chainlink to provide more of a private look.

Here is the pictures that i took today, you have to click on everyone to get a bigger picture of what i am talking about.

The first picture is my beehives from the front, if you look closely you can see the trailers through the trees back in the woods.

Here is the second picture it is a close up of my beehives and you can see campers back behind and a little bit of the fence.

Here is the third one to the right of the picture you can see the campers windows and directly behind the beehives you can see one to.

Here is the fourth one you can really see the back of that camper window now.

Here is the fifth one this is a picture taken right out the front door of our house. You can get a feel for how close they are here, behind is the entrance of the park. And you can also see the slats that they put in the fence here you can still see through it but it gives it a grayish look and is definitely better than having just the plain chain link. They have these slats in all the way back just be four the beehives, they only put them in up by the house. You can also see the Christmas trees that we sell during the wintertime to people and the huge ones right next to the fence that we are not selling and hoping in a few more years we wont be able to see the campground anymore once they grow up. the big tree in the middle is about 20 feet tall and the fence is about 6 feet tall.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2008, 07:08:57 PM »

Well, that's not as bad as I thought, since you have a little bit of privacy from those trees...

I want to change my vote to put up bio-hazard / superfund site warning signs...  evil
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rast
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2008, 07:59:23 PM »

 As an RV'r, I do try my best to respect property rights. gspike is right about a lot of em don't even get out and get around. I always go where I can fish. I also have cut out one trip this summer due to gas prices. I don't know how many are stopping in Ga., but good luck getting a site in Fl. during the winter. However I also know that a lot are complainers. Even if they only stay three days they will complain about something to try to get a discount. Get all your ducks in a row before it opens.
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JordanM
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2008, 08:21:52 PM »

Actually right behind  the first four pictures there is a pond, which comes in handy when it gets dry here.
All the bees have to do is go past a row of campers to get to all the water they want.
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Moonshae
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2008, 09:04:18 PM »

Until we had the campground put up a fence which i would highly recommend, without a physicall barrier people don't know there limits. The fence runs right down the property line and my beehives are about 30 feet from the fence right were all the campers are. This is my first year having bees here and it seems to be going good most of the people start looking over the fence at me in my beekeeping suite and start to wonder if there is something that they should be worried about over here, so i invite them to jump over the fence and i teach them all about beekeeping and honey bees and they are very interested, this particular guy said that the bees had been earlier cleaning up some sunny D that got split.

I have to laugh, you have the campground put up a fence then invite the folks to jump over, lol!

Of course, I understand, it's different folks who don't know their boundaries and who get invited over, but it just sounds funny.
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JordanM
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2008, 09:09:32 PM »

Ya, this guy was really concerened he thought hasmac suites and right away he thought chemicals, so instead of hollering over the fence him and his kid came over and learned a lesson in beekeeping.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 09:15:34 PM »

The development on the hill behind my house put up a fence on one side of my property.  I'm working at getting them to split the cost of a fence across the back since they have property on 2 sides of me.   Agreeing to share cost of a fence should expediate the developers willingness to put up the fence.  With so manyh neighbors that close a fence and signage is really necessary if you want to protect your interests legally.  Having the bees registered with the state (if they aren't already) also determines prior use.  A very important point if there is ever complaints.

Hopefully the neighbors will understand about the bees, those in the new development behind me look at my place as a kind of zoo.  They bring their kids down to feed grass to the goats and I often take them on tours to see the pigeons, chickens, rabbits, turkeys, and point out the hives.  Most notice that the bees are far enough from property lines to not be a major concern, they also know who to call if they ever do have bee problems.

A little PR work before the fact goes a long way.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 12:03:55 AM »

Brian, you sound like a guy that used to live up the road from me in Kirkland... ever live there?
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tlynn
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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 08:01:41 PM »

No, don't tell the developer.  Neither they or the owner are going to change their plans just because the neighbor has boxes of bees.  It's a financial decision that has been made.  If they have finished the environmental impact and have it permitted and financed it's going to happen.

And the idea that whoever was there first has the most rights is is just plain naive.  It's who has the most $ and political muscle.  Do you know why my county has an ordinance against beekeeping?  A beekeeper who had hives for years was adjacent to land that later became a Mercedes dealership.  They couldn't figure out why their brand new cars were getting all these spots all over them and found out about the bees next door.  They (or somebody) got an ordinance passed and the beekeeper had to get rid of the hives. 

Heck, it isn't like RVers are going to be permanent neighbors.  They park for a while and do their thing and think, "Man we're really in nature.  Just look at all the wildlife.  Isn't RVing great!"  And then they're off.  Fence the hives to keep them out of sight, put up some bad dog signs and forget about it.
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rast
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 08:57:28 PM »

 You can tell tlynn lives in Florida.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 10:58:29 PM »

He's right about the $ bit though... though it's not about how much $ they have, it's about how much $ they pay in taxes.  For the govt... it's usually all about the revenue.  But I wouldn't think an RV park would really bring in that much though... it's not really like a mercedes dealership... and whatever they do bring in, may be offset by the negative impact to surrounding property values.

It apparantly already is too late to get the developer to change their plans, considering that RV's are already parked there... originally he made it sound like they were planning to put one in there in the future... not that they already had it done... and apparantly a fence is already in place... so at this point, it doesn't seem to matter much... so I agree with just putting up signs... but I like the biohazard and radioactive hazard signs better than vicious dog signs... I would plaster biohazard/radioactivity signs all over... that may be kinda mean since it would almost surely drive the RV park owner to financial ruin as his tenants all leave... but at least then he wouldn't have an RV park butted up against his property. 
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rdy-b
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« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2008, 12:37:07 AM »

Quote from:  link=topic=17442.msg128352#msg128352 date=1220065109
He's right about the $ bit though... though it's not about how much $ they have, it's about how much $ they pay in taxes.  For the govt... it's usually all about the revenue.  But I wouldn't think an RV park would really bring in that much though... it's not really like a mercedes dealership... and whatever they do bring in, may be offset by the negative impact to surrounding property values.

It apparently already is too late to get the developer to change their plans, considering that RV's are already parked there... originally he made it sound like they were planning to put one in there in the future... not that they already had it done... and apparently a fence is already in place... so at this point, it doesn't seem to matter much... so I agree with just putting up signs... but I like the biohazard and radioactive hazard signs better than vicious dog signs... I would plaster biohazard/radioactivity signs all over... that may be kinda mean since it would almost surely drive the RV park owner to financial ruin as his tenants all leave... but at least then he wouldn't have an RV park butted up against his property. 
     Bill W and JORDAN M are two different post -Go back to the beginning then it should make more sense -myself i am curious as to how long the bees have been there - i hope long enough for the legal standing of GRANDFATHERING to come into play RDY-B
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« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2008, 02:25:45 AM »

Ohhh... HA!  Good catch. 

So yeah, Bill should inform the developer asap then.
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« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2008, 10:06:57 AM »

Just a heads up - if the area is already saturated, and if it's an area that experiences any kind of dearth, you need to be ready to handle complaints about bees on peoples' soda cans, bees after the garbage cans, and in their dogs' water dishes.  These locations will all be visited with varying frequency.

I hate to sound like a party-pooper, but your enjoyment of beekeeping at this location may lessen.  Try to keep the situation going in a positive direction, but be ready with a backup plan.

I mention the soda can because it's worth noting.  I had a party here at my place a few weeks back, and we were in the middle of a dearth.   Bees drinking from the lips of soda cans didn't phase the president or vice-president of our local beekeeping organization, who were among those attending, but it did make me think - what if *somebody* didn't look first, or got one in a can.  You and your family may be cognizant of the risk, and always prepared for it, but the folks at this RV park might not be as educated as you are.  You might want to check and see how well covered you are with insurance...
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« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2008, 03:06:54 PM »

I'd line up all the hives I could borrow facing the fence while they are building it.  They might get the message.
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