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Jerrymac
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« on: January 10, 2005, 10:18:24 PM »

I have just got off the phone with a guy about 120 miles from me. He has bees in the attick  So now I have two colonies to collect soon.
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2005, 12:21:25 AM »

Good Luck!
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2005, 09:34:17 PM »

I might just have to cancel my package orders with R. Weaver. Got another call today from Brownfield about bees bugging the meter readers. Will go down Thursday to check them out.

I have not paid for the order of bees yet, would someone want me to redirect them to you, however that might be done, if I should decide to cancel?

They are the All American that R. Weaver has.

Also wondering if someone would be interested in sending me about ten sheets of foundation. Will gladly pay for them. Or could be drawn comb. I might have to get these bees pretty quick if I can and hopefully they will make it to spring time. Weather isn't too bad around here. Anyway I got foundation ordered, just found out the Credit card is messed up again, and won't get fixed until Tuesday of next week. As I haven't seen this colony yet I don't know if they have any comb or how much. The lady didn't even know how long they have been there. Just trying to open up some options should I need them.

Got about enough stuff together for two three deeps hives or three two deeps hives, or A combination of several sized hives. Got now three ferals colonies to collect. I think, the lady didn't even know if they were honeybees. They are in a duplex I guess she rents out. She sounded elderly on the phone and I think one of her tenants saw my sign I put up and told her about it. I should know more in a couple of days.

Yesterday I checked on the first colony I had phoned into me. It was late enough in the day that the sky was just starting to turn orange, and my temp-o-meter Cheesy  said it was 64F. The girls were flying and carrying pollen. They were probably also out searching for water. I have thought about putting out a feeder and make sure they have water, but then thinking I might want to see it they manage to pull themselves through until spring time with out any help.
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2005, 11:55:31 PM »

Jerry-
You mentioned a need for foundation? But then said something about ordering some. I've got some new foundation in frames, if needed. But no clean comb - only what the bees are using. Smiley
If in a pinch, and no company can get it to you quickly, I could send it off to you. Even overnight if needed - but that always cost too ...... just an option.

Let me know if you need it.
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2005, 03:45:54 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
I
Also wondering if someone would be interested in sending me about ten sheets of foundation.


If you are going to get so much new sbees, don't you need at least 50 foundations at first.  Every hive needs 4-5-6 box during season . It depends how good those feral bees are in brooding.

When bees start to raise brood the first enlarging must will be needed   4-5 weeks later.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2005, 04:37:55 AM »

Thanks guys. I got it Beth you can erase it now if you want.

I do have foundation on order but I might not get it here for a couple of more weeks and this woman might want me to get these bees out of there in a few days. She says they bother the meter readers. I should know more tomorrow.
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2005, 04:51:37 AM »

I was asking the above because I figured if I got the bees in the box with empty frames they could start makeing comb all over the place. I have thought of a couple of options. There is a Hobby Lobby close by. They have wax foundation for people that want to make candles, probably not cheap. I could get a little of that and and make starter strips out of it or, I read someplace about placing a bead of melted wax along the top bar where you wanted them to work from and let them go at it.

Any thoughts?

Do you think the wax from Hobby Lobby is the real stuff?
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2005, 05:06:50 AM »

If you are going to save in wax cost, you should know that when bees produce 1 kg wax, they need 6 kg honey.  10 langstroth foundations weights 1 kg.  They need another 6 kilos honey when they build foundations to combs.

That is why there is no reason to break combs when you take honey off.

As you see, comb building of hive takes a lot of honey.
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2005, 06:16:16 AM »

I've got 5 new frames with new wax foundation.
You're welcome to them.
give me a pm.
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 09:39:49 AM »

Thanks Rog, I'll let you know soon.

Finman, I know what you say is true but this is a possible emergency situation, for the bees. If I don't go get them now, they probably will be exterminated soon. Why not give them a chance, as apposed to none at all.

Well as I was writing this I got another call. Got bees in the barn want them gone. Down at New Home. Possibly if colonies are not very big I can combine a couple. Will check out both of these tomorrow.

Now where was I???  OH yeah, about the honey consuption to produce comb. What is different from what I mentioned and what the top bar hive people do?
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2005, 01:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Jerrymac

Now where was I???  OH yeah, about the honey consuption to produce comb. What is different from what I mentioned and what the top bar hive people do?


Nothing is different,  you don't see any top bar commercial beekeepers because it is not as efficient as Finman explained.

There is nothing wrong with what you plan on doing, as long as you understand the consequence.   There are two type of folks here.  Those that enjoy bees as a hobby, a get away from their normal stressful life, or as education  and those that are in it for profit.   Depending on what you are looking to get out of beekeeping will dictate what you do.

Folks in these fourms have to realize not everyone is in beekeeping for the same reason as them. So cut people some slack when their methods don't agree with yours.  They may be wrong for you, but not for them.
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2005, 09:44:14 PM »

Hey Robo,

 I wasn't jumping down anyones throat, and I know Finman makes his living from bees and expresses his oppions along those lines. I sure don't plan to start as a brand new beekeeper collecting wild hives, and in an experimental mode, and make money.

I also know that Finman is a serious person, and I am on the other end of the spectrum. I told someone the other day I need to practice putting in the smilies because I know how expression is not transmitted via the keyboard. I also told that person not to ever take me serious, OK enough of that. We all kiss and make-up now???  

It was a question, hoping someone would correct me if I was wrong. Because if these last two people want those bees out of there like NOW, I am wondering how I should go about it at this time of year, with no foundation. I am assuming that the bees do have some comb, possibly brood, pollen for sure, and perhaps some stores left.
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2005, 09:58:57 PM »

Jerrymac is right, you all need to kiss and make up, lol, me and him did. At first we kept wanting to kill each other but we never showed emotion and thought each other where out to get us, now we might be partners in a company, we just talked and now we are friends. bye
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Ryan Horn
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2005, 10:04:32 PM »

No Ryan, I wasn't after you, I was just joking around with you. You sort of remind me of a couple of my sons. Man they had a hard life with me picking on them all the time.  cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2005, 10:09:15 PM »

Thats why I say you are more like an older brother, lol, bye
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Ryan Horn
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2005, 03:24:44 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
.. and I know Finman makes his living from bees and expresses his oppions along those lines.


I am not serious at all but if someone is delevering wrong advises to beginners, that is nice at all.

I am working truly in public works of City of Helsinki. I just run hobby with serious manner.  My measure of succeeding  is volume and quality of honey.  You can make all fool tricks, but how do you know that you are A GOOD BEEKEEPER? I dont want be MEDIUM . How do you know and how do you get feedback if you something wrong?  To whom are you listening, your bees or other beekeepers? - Boath I can say.

I am making wrong all the time, because bee do not act like you want.

To you Jerrymach I say, that you have no experience and you see your own truth (what ever it is) piece by piece, not as a whole.  Beekeeping will not go that way at all.

You must first learn how bees live over the year. When you have learned 3 years,  then you can try to leed them according your desire. Bee is stupid creature and some will not like the idea that you try to be their master. If you learn during 3 years, you are relly good.  To most 10 years are not enough and they never learn.

The way you read anothers opinions, fact, true stories, and you argue with your minimum knowledge , it is nice communication at all.

I like to teach beginners but not with your style. I keep hand off.  I am not here earning  bad mind to me or to others. To be like Berline wall between East and West.  You are a good writer, it makes nobody a beekeeper.  

Take a new course , please  rolleyes

Quote
It was a question, hoping someone would correct me if I was wrong.


No one run after you and correct all what you are writing.

Quote
............with no foundation.


You can surely get foundations from hundred place. That cannot be any problem in our big country. It takes 2 days when post carries to me so much foundations as I order. Or I jump to car and pick them. Last I bought 150 lbs foundations and I gived my own wax to seller 120 lbs.
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2005, 04:51:49 AM »

I stand corrected as to how you make a living. embarassed

But now I am confused. Here I am talking about rescuing some bees to give them a chance before they are exterminated. We are not having the ideal weather for transfering bees. I don't have any foundation and the closest place I know of to get some is six hundred miles away. I have some on order but, as I learned, for some reason my credit card is messed up and not going through. My wife, who takes care of all that stuff, tells me it will be taken care of probably Tuesday. Then "if" the card works, someplaces (perhaps all) won't ship until there is warm weather to keep the wax from breaking. We could send a check but that will take a few days to get to them, then several more days for the check to clear the bank, then they process the order and at some point finally send it out.

Glad you like my style of writting.

As far as being a beekeeper and getting the job done I guess we will find out. How can you say I have failed when I haven't started yet? I have read much about various ways of beekeeping and with these different ways people claim success. A lot of them are different from your way of doing it. When I discuss, debate, argue about something, I am just trying to find out why a particular way is the "right" way. You are afraid us beginners are getting all the wrong information and you want to make sure we get the right information. I appreciate that. But I don't understand why some of this information is so wrong if people are doing very well with some of the "wrong" ways they are doing it. Just because it isn't your way?


You have kept bees for 40 years in Finland. Have you done it in West Texas? I think the climates are very much different and perhaps your way won't work here. Perhaps you way will work here, but a lot of it would not be needed.

Will you give me a chance to raise bees and see if I can make it to this time next year at least.
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2005, 05:25:13 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
I
 How can you say I have failed when I haven't started yet?


I wonder, how you can you blame me zero-head after my 40 years experience and after my biology graduate in University? Just the way you attitude to others knowledge.  I read your lessons about genetics. Awfull!.

The is no right way. They are many, tens. Just you must learn to listen and then you pick the proper method from you tool box.

I use many tricks to my hives, not one or right. I have a big tool box. Not always with hammer.  

Quote

I have read much about various ways of beekeeping and with these different ways people claim success.  A lot of them are different from your way of doing it. When I discuss, debate, argue about something, I am just trying to find out why a particular way is the "right" way. You are afraid us beginners are getting all the wrong information and you want to make sure we get the right information.


Now it begans again.........blaa blaa...............

Just like discussing: Who has the best car!

Quote
Just because it isn't your way?


Blaa blaa. You have not abilyty to listen. You see only right or wrong way, not many or variations.

WE ARE NOT TALKING FROM ADULT TO ADULT. LOOK AT OUR AGES!


Quote
You have kept bees for 40 years in Finland. Have you done it in West Texas?


Surely Texas is much more easier to raise bees and in many ways  it is not different. But it was question about your knowledge, not Texas. You need many years practice, where ever you are.  

When you get medium yield 200 lbs from your hive, would you tell me how you did it.

I know that in your levels it is easy to get 600 lbs like Australians do, but first 200 lbs, try it.
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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2005, 06:00:07 AM »

I must say that I have been quiet during this post - for not particular reason, just being a good reader. But my strange beliefs in all of us being creatures of conscience and energy, I have known many younger people with personalities way beyond their years.

It is interesting that there could be generations of age between people, but they can still have similar ethics, hobbies, movie and film preferences, food tastes, etc.. I'm not saying that REINCARNATION EXISTS, I think that does not occur, it is more like the thoughts and personality of other people and event the energy created by events which can find their way into empty vessels: like new borns, people with tramatic head injury and even aminals.

It is a human trait to "see" human-like traits in pets, I think that many of the time pets are born or make their way into families where the pets personality is needed to BALANCE the family - the term BALANCE is the key.

So could someone like Ryan have wisdom or a conscience well beyond his years - I think he can. I have seen this before and if he has a deep feeling of being "more of a brother than a son (or grandson) then maybe there is some small part of his being has had surpressed life experiences, which made its way into him at birth or some other time.

Just some more creepy Beemaster stuff to ponder. But I'm a firm believer that we are all the compilation of all that has come before us - and that energy makes its way into a balance across the Universe.
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2005, 08:25:13 AM »

I was gonna post in another topic that I was beginning to think Ryan has been pulling our legs. That he is actually many years older than he says he is.

Once again Finman I did not know that I was, nor did I intend to, insult your intelegence.

I didn't know I ever gave any "lessons" on genetics. Unless you are talking about my thoughts on evolution.

What you mentioned in your last post is what I do. I read a lot of stuff, I "listen" and absorb the information. Then I choose a direction I think I want to go from that information, that is what you are saying one should do, but when I anounce it, you come in saying it is wrong, wrong, wrong. Then you talk about all this stuff that is the right way to do things. Others have the right way of doing things, it works for them.

Two hungred pounds!?!?! shocked Per hive??? I wasn't even dreaming of getting that much from four hives this first year. But if it happens I will sure let you know.    

Can we drop this and get on with discussing beecatching?
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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2005, 09:14:34 AM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
Hey Robo,

 I wasn't jumping down anyones throat, and I know Finman makes his living from bees and expresses his oppions along those lines.


Jerrymac,

My statement wasn't directed at you per se.   It was just a fact that I think a lot of contention on this site is based on people not considering what other true beekeeping intentions are.   If anything, I believe what you plan on doing is probably the best approach for you.

Sorry for any confusion
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2005, 09:26:29 AM »

That's OK I'm a confusing person, I think I am any way... OH I don't know. cheesy
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 11:32:38 AM »

Hey Jerry-
This is getting to be a really long post.... one of those "beating a dead horse" things. But, I had a thought.

Noticed something a few posts up. These are active hives right? Just hives in the wrong place, or in a place that a person doesn't want them. Not really swarms.

I'm not sure on the answer to this, and wondering about it, so there's the thought. Don't both swarms AND active hives being moved need some brood to make them stay in the new place?

I could be wrong about that - for instance, a package of bees you buy doesn't need brood to start their hive.

Any-hoo...... if you DON"T need the brood, then you have lots of options on frames/wax/foundation. And if so, then yes, you can use just strips of wax for starters on the frames. Certainly not the most efficient way. They'll take a long time to build up the wax, but you're mostly just looking to buy some time till your frames come in the mail from somewhere, right? I've done Top Bar frames in my hive, and didn't even use a strip of foundation. I only melted a little bit of wax onto the top bar - and only on about half of them. It's alot more work for the bees. I'd much rather use foundation when I can. But in a pinch, I'd use top bars.

 smiley The basic thing I'm getting at, is what makes the bees STAY in the hive you placed them in? (Not so much asking you Jerry, but just dropping that question out for ANYONE to answer.) With a swarm, I know they really want some brood in there to make them stay. Maybe it's not a full requirement, but very helpful. I've read of people starting a swarm in a box with no brood, but I believe they used SOMETHING to make it SMELL like an active hive so the bees would think it's a good home. I even read of someone taking brood and comb, smashing it up, putting it in a cheesecloth sack, and laying it in the new hive box. They said this would actually draw a swarm into the box.

For my own experience, we tried to hive a swarm with bare foundation, and the bees wouldn't stay. So is it different with an active hive that is caught?

Beth
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2005, 01:33:05 PM »

Beth,

Yes brood does help keep the bees in place.  When you don't have brood,  you can put a queen excluder between the bottom board and the first deep to keep the queen inplace until she starts laying and you do have brood.
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2005, 02:44:55 PM »

Hello Beth,

I do believe all of these are active hives, not just swarms, and I am hoping they have some brood I can get out and place in the box. I just figured if I ended up with a couple of frames of stuff from their hive then I would have a vast empty space that those bees would go helter skelter with. If I wasn't going to come up with any foundation then perhaps I could get a sheet or two of the stuff I saw at Hobby Lobby. I'm pretty sure it is bee wax. WOW!!! Just remembered that they do have bricks, bars, chuncks, of bee wax. Anyway thinking of getting that as emergency back up as I have no other source of wax close by, and run a beed along the fromes to guide them where to start.

Also hoping there is brood incase I squish poor queeny.

I would say brood will make them stay. Perhaps if you had the queen in there and she couldn't get out they would stay. Also incase of swarm, if the empty box suits there needs and they have no other option at the moment they would stay. After all they did move into a plastic box that covers controls of the well and stayed.
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2005, 04:53:50 PM »

Ok.... it looks like you've got a pretty good handle of what your plan is. I think it all sounds good.

And yes, if you had a frame or two of brood from the old hive location, wired or tied on in some way, then "open space" isn't a huge problem. You could do like you were thinking - make top bar frames. It's not the best way to do things, but it WILL work (or CAN work).

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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2005, 09:37:36 PM »

I've been following this long post... let's not lose site that doing bee removals takes some experience and there's sustantial risk at someone's residence.

Jerry, Please be careful. I get the feeling that you don't have a lot of experience handling bees. There's a million variables when you do a removal at any residence/structure. Without having your basic fundamentals down with beekeeping my *opinion* is that doing removals is not a good place to get your bees.

Get some experience with packages or catching swarms before venturing into the exponentially more complex world of removals. I don't want hear about you on the news for a serious stinging incident with yourself or the public. None of us want bad press for beekeepers in general.

I've done some easy removals and they have never gone as planned. I'm no expert. I've been a hobby beekeeper for 5-6 years and helped dispatch an Africanized hive, but would not touch bees in a residence/attic because of the liability and risk.

Are you going to cut away their siding? Who will do repairs? How high up? Is it a populated area? Who will seal up the area to ensure bees don't return? When you start cutting into a hive everything is sticky, angry bees are everywhere - everything needs to be ready for the removal.

Jim
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2005, 10:17:55 PM »

this is a long post and :

      evil

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! wink
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2005, 10:22:43 PM »

Hi Jim,

I appreciate your concerns and take them to heart. It isn't set in stone that I will do all of these captures. And I do have a habit of make plans B, C, and sometimes D. Plan E is leaving the scene while using a beevac to pull the bees from the vail to see where I am going. I will have the areas evacuated for peoples safety. I have a full bee suit and plan on wearing extra garb under it. Got bee gloves from Betterbee, a helmet and zip on vail. I will double duct tape any openings and around the boots and gloves. If anything I will be over protected. I don't want to be stung.

As far the ones in the walls they are in an old barn and old pump house. The owners have said they will cut/tear out the walls. I mentioned the plan of approach for the pump house. I went to see the barn today, it was too cold and damp for the bees to be flying. Again the outside is currogated metal on 2X4s. Thw inside wall is the slotted wood type where one side of the bottom board slips into a slot on the side of the upper board. This only extends about six and a half feet up from the floor. So it is not a full inner wall. I believe the boards can be removed one at a time with no damage to the wood and later nailed back up.

I am really debating about the one under the house. There is a way to get under there I just wasn't able to check it out today. I am a small wirery guy. But the thought of having to crawl out if things go wrong isn't to appealing, but again I will be bundled up. The big thing is how will this big round hat work under there?Huh

I haven't gotten to see the attic one. I imagine it is simply going through the attic opening and over to where the bees are. Pretty much standing up. And shouldn't be any walls or stuff to remove, if this attic is made the way many other attics i've been in were made. Just as long as I don't fall through the ceiling. Been there, done that.

As I said, I can always back out anytime.
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2005, 01:06:35 AM »

I suppose both you and the other person could make up some small contract stating - any damage is not your resposibility, and any injury is not their's - and stating that if the job is too much you have the right to back out - job undone.

Huh?

Beth
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wanabee
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2005, 01:31:23 PM »

I know   a way that you can take care of the feral  bees with no foundation. all you need is a hive and some empty frames. It can be messy  but thats ok.  find the combs and cut them out put them in the empty frames and wrap 100 percent cotton string around the frames to hold the combs in place. feed the bees some sugar water. they will draw the combs to fit in the foundation. You probobly won't be able to fit ten frames in there depending on the width of the combs but that is ok. The reason the string has to be 100 percent cotton is because the bees will chew thru it eventually. Then when you do get your foundation in the mail,put ten frames in a deep super, find the queen and put her in there. put on a queen excluder so she can't get back up in the old comb. keep feeding sugar water so the bees draw out the foundation quicker.The nurse bees won't abandon the brood so when they all hatch out of the old comb if the old comb is to messy or whatever just melt it down for the wax
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Robo
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2005, 06:22:53 PM »

Quote from: wanabee
 find the combs and cut them out put them in the empty frames and wrap 100 percent cotton string around the frames to hold the combs in place.


Rubber bands work well too.  String tends to let the combs wobble to one side or the other unless you get it tight, which can be a chore in itself when your dealing with stick combs.  Rubber band provide tension that keeps the combs in place.  

Once the bees chew thru them, just pick them off the bottom board.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2005, 06:52:03 PM »

Wonder how the bee feels biting through a tight rubberband.

 zpwang!!!! shocked
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