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Author Topic: Is this type of clover a big honey producer  (Read 5206 times)
Keith13
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« on: August 05, 2008, 09:28:23 AM »

Trifolium incarnatum (Fabaceae)  common name crimson clover
Its the large red clover growing along the roadways here in the south. Its cheap to buy seed and I was thinking about planting some in my food plots this year. I also heard it takes over pretty quick so it could probably stand up to the deer eating it down.

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Keith
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dpence
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 02:14:29 PM »

There was a nice article in ABJ about crimsom clover.  It is supposed to be a great honey clover.

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ArmucheeBee
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 05:29:36 PM »

I just asked a similar question on the General Forum.  But, first, what is the ABJ website?  Second, everything I have read says the Crimson bloom is too deep for honey bees.  Just do a search on these forums and you can find that out quick.  Third, white clover (Danish) is best for bees.  I plan to plant Durana and Yucchi this fall.  Go to the General Forum and look for my question last night.  Hope this helps.
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Stephen Stewart
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 12:16:38 AM »

crimson clover is ok for the bees although i notice that they prefer the white.  it's the red (purple) clover that they don't use.  bumble bees use it.  i have all 3 growing here and rate them 1. white 2. crimson and 3.  red....just because it gives the BB's something of their own.  smiley
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 02:02:50 AM »

ABJ is the American Bee Journal.

http://www.dadant.com/journal/
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 12:18:54 PM »

White Dutch clover, yellow sweet clover, and the crimson clover are all rated great resources for bees. Kind of like Kathyp rated them, 1 white, 2 yellow sweet, 3rd crimson.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 09:07:26 PM »

Red clover is different than Crimson clover.  They seem to like the Crimson.  They seldom work the Red as they can't reach the nectar except under rare circumstances.
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ArmucheeBee
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 09:43:57 PM »

Also, yellow sweet clover is not a true clover.  If you think of clover as being the "3 or 4-leaf" variety, associated with little Irish people, and gold.   I might add some alfalfa to my mix.  What time of year is alfalfa planted in the South? 
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Stephen Stewart
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Keith13
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2008, 09:41:02 AM »

Also, yellow sweet clover is not a true clover.  If you think of clover as being the "3 or 4-leaf" variety, associated with little Irish people, and gold.   I might add some alfalfa to my mix.  What time of year is alfalfa planted in the South?  

Good question
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qa33010
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 12:17:59 AM »

    I didn't know they had any strains that successfully grew down here. huh
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HAB
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 12:24:34 PM »

Tried planting Crimson and Yuchi Arrow Leaf Clover here in S. Alabama about ten years ago to help provide nitrogen for our hay crops..  Spent about $5,000.00 learning that they won't grow very well here unless you can get them ever so lightly disked into the ground at just the right time.  The first year had a fair stand, second mediocre and very poor the third year.  Ten years later still have scattered patches that volunteer to come up each year.  With yearly replanting they would probably do a lot better.

If you can work the seed in at the optimum time those two clovers will grow as far south as planting zone 9 but not nearly as well as they will just a hundred or so miles north of the Alabama/Florida state line. 
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ArmucheeBee
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 06:36:04 PM »

HAB, I read they only need 1/8 inch cover.  I guess I could use tweezers.  I'll only put in 1/4 acre this fall, what did you mean by the "right time?"  Should do better in NW GA. then?
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Stephen Stewart
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HAB
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2008, 07:43:28 PM »

HAB, I read they only need 1/8 inch cover.  I guess I could use tweezers.  I'll only put in 1/4 acre this fall, what did you mean by the "right time?"  Should do better in NW GA. then?

NW Ga should do well.
Disking in at the shallowest setting with a tractor mounted disk in an established grass/hay field is how we do it.  Been told that a good raking will work or allowing cattle to "walk" the seed into the thatch.  When planting in bare ground a "drag" made of 15ft of chainlink fence with some old tires for weights will work.  You need the seed to be in the ground when the fall rains start here.  For us that is a very busy time of the year.
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Ross
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2008, 09:35:52 AM »

Crimson is an excellent early year forage for bees.  Unfortunately, it will not take heat and burns out here in April.  Mixing it with arrow leaf or ball will give you a longer season.  White Dutch won't take our heat either.  Crimson only produces about 30% or less hard seed, so you don't get great reseeding from year to year.  I do get some every year from a planting 8 years ago.  You can broadcast Crimson on untilled ground in late fall and get a decent stand. 
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ArmucheeBee
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2008, 08:40:47 PM »

Since we have less than a 1/4 acre, we used herbicide and killed the grass then plowed.  I'll wait for a couple rains before sowing the clover.
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Stephen Stewart
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qa33010
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2008, 01:19:26 AM »

   Sorry.  I was talking about alfalfa not grown successfully down here.  While it blooms, earlier in the spring, crimson is covered and the white blooms a little later and stays until about mid/late-July before it's gone.  There is a short intermission and then the Crepe Merts started, getting worked pretty good right now, and the knockout roses are all late spring and summer.  Then the white clover comes back a little with the asters and golden rod.  Since ragweed has started the this should soon begin.  The red clover blooms right at the end of the crimson, but doesn't last too long and the honey bees leave it alone.
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Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)
TwT
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2008, 09:42:43 AM »

I usually plant crimson clover ever fall, the last 2 years it has come up good in the spring but with the drought's we have had the last few years it hasn't produced much, normally it produces very well and is some very nice honey, I like it because I can buy a 50# bag for $55.00 and white clover cost more than double that! crimson clover usually doesn't bloom to long maybe 3-4 weeks but is dies off before it get hot here! it is just a spring bloomer not all year...
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Shawn
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2008, 04:51:38 PM »

TWT, where do you buy your clover? Do you know if they will ship? The only place I have found that seemed reasonale was the below link.

http://www.outsidepride.com/?cat=314
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TwT
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2008, 10:39:08 PM »

my local feed store has it, most feed stores have it or could get it for you....
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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