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Author Topic: small hive beetle control  (Read 18738 times)
bailey
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« on: August 03, 2008, 04:47:21 PM »

well i have been visited by the small hive beetle!! they are busy making a mess of my weaker hives.
i have deployed traps but i am wondering something.

the larvae look much like wax moth larvae.  so will the certan  ( bt )  controll the hive beetle larvae as well as it controlls the wax moth larvae?

looking foreward to any and all answers.

bailey
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2008, 06:12:51 PM »

so will the certan  ( bt )  controll the hive beetle larvae as well as it controlls the wax moth larvae?

No! The larva are extremely hard to kill. I have washed them out on my asphalt drive and they will live for days. Fire ants won't eat them! I have even frozen them and when thawed, they come alive!

They are demons straight from HELL!

Is that plain enough or do you want me to tell you how I really feel about SHB's?

Steve 
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bens
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 06:31:03 PM »

I had them last year, This year I used traps from Dadant and this year two strong hives with no beetles.  The traps I used are the ones that you put under the hive and fill with veg. oil.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 10:27:38 PM »

Different BT target different grubs etc. The Bt in certan will not target shb.
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2008, 11:00:14 PM »

I am with YOU asprince, The only real way to kill these mosters is with a hive tool, and that goes for their moms too!!!!! I just lost a hive due to shb and robbing Cry
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 12:53:40 PM »

The BT in milky spore lawn treatment *might* help, but even then I wouldn't stick that in my hive, only on the ground.

I'm pretty sure that a couple of days in a deep freezer will make sure that they don't come back to life.  Wax moths, however, can survive better in a freezer, but they still can't compete with 0F...
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 08:06:00 PM »

Once they take over and the larvae are working the combs hard and you smell the rot, the combs are ruined and its shake out time, especially if they are queenless which they usually are when they get to that point.

If they aren't queenless you could set them up in a nuc with drawn comb from another colony and some brood to boost their numbers.

Put the infested combs out in the open away from the hives so the bees can rob what they want and the shb can suffer a slow and painful death.


...JP
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ArmucheeBee
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 08:32:59 PM »

Does a hive go queenless due to SHB or does a hive go queenless and then go SHB?
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Stephen Stewart
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asprince
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 09:32:58 PM »

If the hive is queenless and gets weak the SHB's will take over. If the hive is queenrite and gets weak, the SHB's will take over and the bees will abscond.

Steve
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 01:58:32 AM »

hi heard that some hobbybeekeeper her are making up tray es putting somesort  poison on the bottom covering with soil when the lava comes out to go in the groundthey fall in the tray es bury down  and the poison get them. heard one fella using ant powder.put it on the bottom sprinkle the dirt over the top. he told me he thinks he is having a win as he has started to break the cycle as they have to get to the ground to  finish their cycle.
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JP
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 08:33:04 AM »

hi heard that some hobbybeekeeper her are making up tray es putting somesort  poison on the bottom covering with soil when the lava comes out to go in the groundthey fall in the tray es bury down  and the poison get them. heard one fella using ant powder.put it on the bottom sprinkle the dirt over the top. he told me he thinks he is having a win as he has started to break the cycle as they have to get to the ground to  finish their cycle.

Have to be very careful about what you put under a hive, you can get fumes that go airborne and rise up into the hive from liquid applications and dusts are notorius for drifting, I would cover any type of dust application as well.

This is a no brainer, but I will state the obvious anyway. Before any type of application under a hive, I would strongly recommend it be moved before the application, then it can be put back.

One more thing, with the use of any type of chemical application read the label and follow it to the T, accidents and mishaps usually occur when applications are done without adhering strictly to the label.


...JP
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 06:04:27 PM »

hi
    i made my test one up in away from hive, i can see your point .let you no how it go's as we are coming in to spring in a month.sprinkled ant dust over the bottom  than put inch soil over the hole tray.[yes the dust need to be put in away from hive as it does rise dont do it in the open in wind]. my tray is the full length of the hive.
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catfishbill
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 05:28:09 PM »

i once read that putting 20 mule team borax in a piece of corrugated cardboard and putting duct tape on it then tape it to the top will kill them.any one else tried this?
bill
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sc-bee
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 11:25:21 PM »

> from website:Borax (from Persian burah), also known as sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate, is an important boron compound, a mineral, and a salt of boric acid.
 
"Borax" and "Boric acid" are not the same.
Borax is Na2B4O7-10H2O, Hydrated sodium borate
Boric acid is H3BO3

I have heard of people using boric acid but not Borax.
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JP
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 05:40:51 AM »

> from website:Borax (from Persian burah), also known as sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate, is an important boron compound, a mineral, and a salt of boric acid.
 
"Borax" and "Boric acid" are not the same.
Borax is Na2B4O7-10H2O, Hydrated sodium borate
Boric acid is H3BO3

I have heard of people using boric acid but not Borax.

You can use either one.


...JP
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2008, 11:04:12 AM »

i think i read it on this site.who was telling us about it?i can't remember.thanks
bill
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 07:39:46 PM »

I ran a pest control department for 5 years and held a Georgia Pest Control license.  What Boric acid does is act as an irritant to the exoskeleton of the an insect.  They begin scratching at their exoskeleton which causes a lesion that becomes infected and then they die of the bacteria infection.  We used boric acid in the largest kitchen in the US, Central State Hospital (Milledgeville) because it is not a poison to humans and can be used in a food service area without harm to us.  It can also be carried by an insect into their hiding places and spread to others.  So if a bee gets it on them then it will transport it to many others in the hive--that would not be good.  In my previous life I actually sprayed honeybees out of a house because we could not find anyone to cut them out--every sting is my punishment now! evil
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JP
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2008, 10:16:19 PM »

Boric acid and borax chiefly work as stomach poisons. When using it for shb it is placed in corrugated plastic such as real estate signs and can be sealed with a little crisco and placed between a top cover and inner cover with great results and no harm to the bees.

PCO for 18 1/2 yrs.


...JP
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sc-bee
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2008, 11:24:29 PM »

Don't run inner covers JP --- I understand you can staple it to the bottom board. Do you see any problems arising from that?
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JP
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2008, 06:27:53 AM »

Don't run inner covers JP --- I understand you can staple it to the bottom board. Do you see any problems arising from that?

Can do that as well. I hear great things about the AJ traps as well, it uses no chemicals just vegetable oils to drown the beetles, pretty ingenious.


...JP
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jesuslives31548
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2008, 12:18:45 PM »

or use zipocide under a piece of roofing felt in the bottom board... evil
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Hayesbo
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2008, 10:47:51 PM »

or use zipocide under a piece of roofing felt in the bottom board... evil

What is zipocide?

Steve
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jesuslives31548
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2008, 09:02:36 AM »

Actually it's called zipicide Dust. It is used to treat flies on cow and in cow lots. Can be puchased at most Farm feed supplies without a pesticide license. Like mentioned before, I'm sure this is not an approved method for control in Bee Hives. But, I know it will work when done properly. Make sure the the 4x4 square of felt roofing paper in secureed to a cornor of the bottom board. Staple it in a way that the SHB can go under it, but the bee's can't. Use 1/2 teaspoon per 4x4 square. Some mix it with peanut butter.

The hives I have seen it used on had no effect on the bee's. But like any pesticide I would use Caution. The use of the roach motels proected with hardware cloth seems to be a good method aswell. I have use it in several hives and seen a decrease in the SHB. I have also learned that placing my hives in hot sandy area is very helpful. I run screen bottom boards on these hives for ventilation.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2008, 12:35:00 PM »

Zipicide:

Manufacturer: Chem-Tech
1% Co-ral®
active Ingredients:
coumaphos: 0,0-diethyl 0-(3-chloro-4-methyl-2-
oxo-2h-1-benzopyran-7-yl) Phosphorothioate 1%

inert Ingredients 99%

TOTAL 100%
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JP
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2008, 01:28:33 PM »

Zipicide:

Manufacturer: Chem-Tech
1% Co-ral®
active Ingredients:
coumaphos: 0,0-diethyl 0-(3-chloro-4-methyl-2-
oxo-2h-1-benzopyran-7-yl) Phosphorothioate 1%

inert Ingredients 99%

TOTAL 100%


This stuff has lots of precautions, ALWAYS follow the label directions on any product. Scroll down a little to view the info on this product.

http://www.drugs.com/vet/prozap-zipcide-dust.html


...JP
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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2008, 06:35:07 PM »

I've been told Co-ral is some more bad stuff. Never used it!
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2012, 12:28:58 AM »

I have sinked the larvas of SHB in salt water. It took a while to kill them but it does work. Tip them into salt water, and watch them not climb out. they will die finally.
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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2012, 08:17:29 AM »

Ome of the people that visited my local association last year said he has great luck coating the ground in about a two foot area around his hive with powdered lime about an inch or two thick.

 When the larva crawl into it the abraid themselfs and the lime acts like a dessicant to dry them out.

 I really want to try this out.
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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2012, 05:51:07 PM »

Are your hives in full sun???   that's the best single treatment here in SC...   I have a beek friend who's hives are eat up with hive beetles in partial shade...   mine are in full sun and I have none...    of course you need to think ventilation.  With the 100 + degree days last year I decided to put screened inner covers and it must be screen not hardware clothe...   beetles can get away from the bees through #8 hardware cloth...  when I pull the top cover I can see the top of the frames and look for beetles right away...   Of course if you use #8 hardware cloth you can do what JP suggested with the boric acid/crisco thing...  but remember that hive beetles love crisco...    You might look at Freeman traps...  good luck 'cause beetles are a pain in the arse!!!

John
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orvette1
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2012, 02:56:13 AM »

JP you are right about AJ's Beetle Eater. I love mine! But no one sells them in the US anymore, and shipping from Australia costs more than the item. I saw a guy on youtube put a oil trap under the screened bottom board, then he powered sugared them. He caught lots of SHB. I have lost several hives because of those monsters.
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 01:51:32 PM »

So far I've had good luck with putting my hives in full sun, getting rid of inner/telescoping covers with replacement migratory covers, and managing how much space I give the bees.  My day is probably coming.

I need to make some traps for that occasion.
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2012, 02:01:37 PM »

My big questions in all this is...

How many adult beetles is too many? When should I start to worry about them?

If I see 10 beetles? 20? Beetles crawling on comb?

Obviously slimed comb is too late.
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« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2012, 04:08:43 PM »

When I expect my hive if I see more than 5 , I put in a bettle blaster (with oil) like the AJ trap.  IF I see 10 or more, I put in several traps and seriously consider the number of bees vs space etc.  All my hives are in full sun.  You just about cant keep bees in shade around here.
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Charlotte
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2012, 10:39:20 PM »

I want to get a vac like used on keyboards and just vac them out when ever I see them in my hives. I wouldn't fix the problem, but it would make me feel better afro
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« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2012, 09:45:42 AM »


I just read this pdf and gonna give it a try.  Looks interesting.

Since we had the warm winter, I've seen more SHB in my hives then previous years. Not overrunning but more than usual.

...DOUG
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« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2012, 10:11:30 AM »

I tried that system early last year with some success. Not great, but it did kill a few beetles.

Scott
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« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2012, 08:45:26 PM »

I'm a newbee.  I started 2 hives with packaged bees the first week of April.  After 2 weeks I noticed my first beetle.  Now they are in both hives, but as far as I can tell, they are under control.  When I first noticed them and did my research, I freaked out!  The future seamed quite dismal.  I immediately ordered 2) Freeman traps (he's a really nice guy) and installed them.  They are probably the best oil traps as there is no way your bees can get in and drown.  The traps have all kinds of critters in them and the SHBs are in there too.  I usually find a couple of them on the inside of of my top cover but have not seen them on the frames yet.  This evening I removed the top covers, but didn't see any at all.  The other nite around dusk I killed about 4 trying to fly into the entrance.  From what I've read, they like to lay eggs in sandy soil.  Here in this part of North Carolina we have clay soil, so that theory is not correct.  I also removed some of my empty frames so that the bees will populate the remaining frames much more densely and give the beetles less room.  I then add back the frames as they are needed.
I have no idea why I have what seems to me as a heavy population of these monsters.  I have an inspection coming up on Saturday where I'll take a good look at my frames.  I will continue to monitor the extent of this plague and hope the bees and traps will keep things under control.  Treating my lawn or the hive will be the last resort. 
I am hoping to eventually have a total of 6 hives, the other 4 will be populated with Russians which will control the beetles much better, but if I can't maintain the 2 hives I have now, I will probably have to find a new hobby although beekeeping is about the coolest thing I've done in a while.  I love my girls!
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