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Author Topic: dinosaurs in recent history - filmed by CNN  (Read 3960 times)
Beth Kirkley
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« on: January 05, 2005, 03:09:27 PM »

My husband found this web site a few days back, and I've had a great time reading all the links on it.
The web site is: http://www.nwcreation.net/dinosdragons.html
It has many different sites to look at for proof of dinosaurs in "modern" history, and proof of a reletively short life of our earth. Such as some proof that the earth can not be older than maybe 10,000 years. One of these scientific evidences is that the sun is shrinking at a rate of 5 feet per hour - http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-082.htm Here is a quote from that site:
Quote
Assuming (by uniformitarian-type reasoning) that the rate of shrinkage has not changed with time, then the surface of the sun would touch the surface of the earth at a time in the past equal to

t  =   (93,000,000 miles) (5,280 ft/mile)  
 (2.5 ft/hr) (24 hr/da) (365 day/yr)  

or approximately 20 million B.C.
However, the time scales required for organic evolution range from 500 million years to 2,000 million years. It is amazing that all of this evolutionary development, except the last 20 million years, took place on a planet that was inside the sun. By 20 million B.C., all of evolution had occurred except the final stage, the evolution of the primate into man.


Another scientific proof of a short life time of the earth, around 6,000 to say 10,000 years old so far - is this:
The magnetic pull weakening. http://www.apologeticspress.org/faq/r%26r9306a.htm
Quote
If we project backwards in time, we will get to a point where the magnetic field is impracticably strong. This occurs no more than nine to ten thousand years ago.

And 7 reasons for a young earth: http://www.evolutioncruncher.us/site/574808/page/235985
On that site you'll find out about:
1) LARGE STARS
2) SOLAR COLLAPSE
3) MOON DUST
4) LUNAR RECESSION
5) COMET WATER
6) EARTH ROTATION
7) MAGNETIC FIELD DECAY

But here's a really cool thing to see! Modern day video of an apparent dino filmed by CNN. The link to it is about halfway down the page on the first link I gave you. It's called - Monster in Turkey: Download Video From CNN. Here is the direct link for this video - http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9706/12/fr...ster.18.3.6.mov
And here is the story on CNN, received directly off the CNN web page: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/08/02/monster.mysteries/index.html

I had a blast reading about all this. Check it out.
Beth
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2005, 03:55:44 PM »

I think it interesting that the first dinosaurs weren't found until around 1894. What's THAT all about?

My dad always said a guy walks into the dessert with a chistle and hammer and a month later comes back with a dinosaur - you could probably put an order in for a particular species and if you give him long enough, he'll come back with it - lol.

I don't know about carbon dating. They say it is so accurate, because of the decay rate - but tell me, how can you prove that carbon has the same viable shelf life after just a few hundred years, let known thousands and millions.

Everything has a life span or shelf life, why do we assume carbon is the one exception to the rule?

But as far as the BIG BANG - I lean to the thought that IF the Universe was created by a big-bang, then it was the way God Intended, then the Bible broke it down to relative terms from there.

I don't know when dinosaurs were here, all I know is I've never seen one running around and I'll never forget that when I reached over the ropes at the Natural History Museum in Philadelphia to touch a fully reconstructed dinosaur, the whole think moved and I believe it was made of hollow plastic. I carefully read the marker plaque and NO WHERE did it say that this was a casting or mold of a dinosaur from another museum.

How old is the Universe and is the sky just a big wasteland of stars placed there to humor us, or is it a connect the dots puzzle leading us to a trillion other worlds of advanced or primative life forms? I don't know, but I'd hate to think we are the only planet out there because what a waste of space that would be.

Again, the Bible is one of mans rule books, but I'm hoping that a few trillion other books with similar rules are found throughout the Universe.

But I really believe that Astrology (what I like to call the study of gravitational pull on things in space) has some validity - but don't get horoscopes and astrology confused, one is more of a parlor trick and the other is a science.

Interesting post Beth.
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2005, 10:46:23 AM »

Well now you guys have done it. Had to bring this subject up didn't you.

John - If we all agree that God created the heavens and the earth then can we not contend that he was/is decorating his house as He sees fit. Get up out of your chair and walk around your house. Is there really more room there than you really need? Sure there is. Just get rid of all the useless stuff you have lying around. You got pictures on the wall? Why? to cover up empty space. Do you not wish sometimes that your house was bigger, so you would have more room, and could poke in more stuff? Useless stuff.

To us the vast endless emptiness of space is just over whelming. But let us not reduce God's vision of it to our perspective.

Now my mother likes to point out that there can't be other people out there because the Bible says God sent his ONLY son to us. To wash away our sins. Now could Jesus have come to earth only and that would take care of all men through out the universe and beyond?

Perhpas God has made other creatures with inteligence on other plants. Would they have free will? Would they have sin? Would there be more than one fallen angel (Satan) to spread evil through out those worlds, or could Satan cover the whole spectrum of space himself.

And if you were God about to create something, wouldn't you start it off with a big bang?

Now I suppose one can point his/her telescope towards the night sky and pick out the furtherest point of light and say it take so many billions of years for that light to reach the earth, therefore earth and all other heavenly bodies have had to exist that long. But in the Bible God created the light. He could place the light He created anywhere He pleased. He could have created that distant star right here next to the earth and then flung it out into space. OR just point his finger and say "right there" And have the star and its rays of light all in one POP.

But let us say the earth has been around for billions of years. And started with the Big Bang. how long would it have taken for the earth to get to a point where it could support life. How can us lowly febble minded humans ever really know the answer to that?

I'll give you that a few billion years is a long time, until you throw in a few details I never hear about.

That septic pool of who knows what, where the first flicker of life began. How long after the earth got to the stage to support life did it take for that flicker? Was it a successful one time only event? Or did it take several tries to get a surviver? And then one day one finally pops out of there and decides this starting over and over is rediculouse, and figures out how to reproduce. Now I'm no genious but to me that would take a very very long time. So after a few million years, after the earth could support live, we finally have a single celled something that can reproduce by splitting. I wonder what it fed on? Rocks? Some mineral or chemical that some how it was instantly born to consume? After all, every living creature has to eat. And there was no organic matter on the earth. If there was, where did it come from?

Now I wonder how long it was before these first creatures developed a sense of touch? How would they have known there was anything to touch? And if that is a hard one. After touch came along there must have been a recognition that there were viberations out there and they could develope ears to hear it. WOW. That must have taken a long long time, as it is envisioned that plants were first, then some slimmy sea creatures, which by the way figure out there was a whole vast land mass to explore. But first they had to figure out that there was light that reflected off of objects and could be seen IF they only had some eyes. How long would it take to develope some sort of eye, and nerves, and the part of the brain that brings it all to an image. Do you suppose that happened all at once?

Now remember. Some of these mutants in this whole long process was bound to get eaten or somehow killed before they were able to pass alomg these new found genes to make it all possible, so they would have to wait several who know how many years before another mutant came along.

By now we have gotten this reproduction thing down to a science, but now let us figure out how to attract the opposite sex. Whoops! Wait a minute. Now we are not just splitting, we now have different sexes? How did that happen, and when did they figure out how to copulate. Wouldn't that have meant there were two mutants? Male and Female? OH but never mind that. We have ears. Let us make noises that the opposite sex will find alluring. Or we'll dress our selves up in fancy colors. But what if, just what if there were a way to produce an oder and be able to smell it. So now how long before we get a nose? Just knowing there is something out there to smell?

Let us take the honeybee and flower since we're on a beekeepinf web-sight. The bee. The honey stomach. The pollen bags, the capability to make wax. Knowing how to work the wax and make comb. Propolis. Knowing where it comes from and what to do with it. And on and on and on. And then the flower developing in such ways to attract honey bees with looks and necter because the flower figured it needed the bee to pollenate.

Which came first the flower or the bee?

So we can figure it was a long drawn out process to evolve a bee into what it is today and also the flower. Those billions of years start seeming pretty darn short. And then there are the theories about how many times the earth has had mass extinctions where just about everything died off. Meaning some things would have to start all over.

Now being conditioned, or trained, is a lot diverent from being able to reason and think. I know how much the animals lovers try to put animals on the same level of man, but I for one believe they can not reason dispite the amazing things that some animals have done. It's just a conditioned, trained, instinctive, response. If I thought other wise I would have to become a vegitarian.

It's hard to imagine that man has been around all these few thousand years and just recently figured out steam power. Just imagine how long it must have taken to develope the mind from the very first spark of thought.

Now you take all of that, and that it's just a fluke that earth can support life at all, and another fluke that life started and survived, is it too hard to imagine there is very little if any kind of intelegent life out there?

Personally I don't think evolution is possible in the time frame given, unless it was something going on a lot, because of the magnificent possibilities of one not making it. And woould have to start over and over. And if there were all of these evolutionary changes starting at different times in different places, we should see a stagering amount of different spiecies than what we have today. And why isn't the an evolved man stepping out of the jungle?
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2005, 11:27:46 AM »

Ouch!  my head hurts from thinking too much.
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2005, 06:49:15 PM »

I have to agree. We (species on earth) have been evolving for a very long time.
I hate to offend my Christian frends here but this everything is recent stance flys in the face of accepted science.
You who would accept a mri diagnosis for a problem, would reject the same evidence for evolution. I'm sorry this stuff while amusing doesn't fly. One thing I find very funny is that if you read revelations our President fufills all of the requirments of being the anti-christ. Yet all the Born agains support him.
I have been brought up in a religious education. Free will is all important in everyting. If fyou are only good to obey laws it does nothing for your soul in Gods eyes. If you are only good to reap the final reward it really doesn't help you to much either. You must be good in your heart plain and simple.

Trying to legislate moral behavior is like trying to legislate personal hygine.
It just doesn't work.
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2005, 06:49:41 PM »

When I have about 4 hours to explain my version of the Universe and what it really is, I promise to do so - but be warned, it's strange to most. Let me just say that EVERYONE and EVERYTHING is a cohesive entity - like parts of a clock, All people and all living things are conscious bodies - many of which are limited by their brain's development - but all with conscience and THAT is the important issue.

My www.beemaster.com/obe.html is just the tip of the story, but it explains the energy part of our being - the conscience part, the part NOT effected by gravity because it is nearly weightless. But there is much more from gravatational effects, multiple universes, The endless subparticle universe (not that M-theory stuff, or the H-theory - although it is close) and don't forget astrology (the gravity part which effects mood across the galaxies as do crystals have effects on certain energy fields).

And yes, this all from a Christian Man who believes Jesus was the ultimate understander of the way in which all things works together, he may have not been able to put it together in mathamatical terms, but he understood the reality of spirit and taught positive thinking. And although I think most of the Bible is presented as parable, it does the best job it can do given the lack of understanding ANYTHING science related whe it was written.

I often wonder what the Bible would look like if written today, or if written a few hundred years from now when there is even greater understanding of the world and universe. We are all connected, the good and the bad are connected differently, and serve different purposes - but the good energy is a collective conscience which is part of God, thus Godly. The Satan collective is just as real, because all things have a Yin-yang relationship, I don't know why, but it is how God made it.

REMEMBER: choice is our greatest gift from God, but just like all other issues we deal with, energy attracts our thinking and we need to overcome bad energy: thus the power of positive thinking - which all great philosophers believe is the number one force we can control.

When I post my lengthy philosophy: It will be long, detailed and I'm sure enough content to rip apart for decades. But people have done that with the Bible, so I figure there is no harm in scrutinizing my collective theories (not comparing the two here either)  I'm just saying I don't mind being under a microscope.

So I don't believe "Science" can ever fully explain the myster of life, the formulas would be too massive and science always hits road-blocks when trying to measure apples and oranges, and frequently things which appear to be "the same" are only "similar" and the math falls apart. But I DO BELIEVE that using science will prove that God create the Universe and it will even (with some degree of explanation) show how God did much of it.

Why do so many people think that JUST because God created EVERYTHING, that MAN cannot break it apart mathamatically or scientifically proving HOW God did it. Afterall, all the LAWS of SCIENCE explain how THINGS work, and someday I believe we will be able to explain how all things work. We are slowly learning NOT how the Universe was created, but how GOD created the Universe - I think science is on a quest FAR BEYOND what it thinks.

I don't think God is a magician, God created us using his own principle WHICH I believe are STANDARDIZED and permanent. No one just floats around or teleports or travels time (at least in the phsyical body) because God created a universe where Objects in motion stay in motion, where gravity pulls all things equally to the earth, where sound and light travel at measurable and predicable speeds - these are things God did, but also things MAN has been able to calculate using math and science. Just because God made all of this, doesn't mean we can't eventually figure out how, and in a way that will be EYE-OPENING to all evolutionists.

So I think that eventually, all things will be understood - there is a formula out there to explain all God's wonders.
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2005, 08:08:44 PM »

I wanted to add this link http://astralinfo.org/ for some interesting out of body stuff from the world foremost expert in the topic - and (I might add) the guy who answered all my questions after experiencing out-of-body symptoms which I could not explain as they were happening to me.

Search Willian Bulman in the forum's search feature for other posts that I have made concerning OBE.

OBE proves to me that the conscience being is the real person we are NOT the body that our conscience (spiritual being if you prefer) occupies. The conscience is the spirit body, the part of ever-lasting life that the Bible promises. Jesus is a catalyst to achieving enlightenment and understanding.

There are many religions in the world and all the positive ones have a common goal even if the means to get to there differs greatly. Once you understand that our bodies are vessles in which the real us travel around in, you have to believe that a spiritual existance is more than a place to go after we die, it is an eternal rhelm that all around us and we are very capable of interacting with it - and while alive and firmly planet on the Earth.

Death though is the ultimate out-of-body experience. There is no longer a PLACE to dwell and we have to move on - which I think is a very smooth transistion, one that can be felt if you make the efforts to understand the REAL conscience/body relationship.

I think Jesus is a catalyst to conscience understanding - a door to the universal connection with God and all-being and ever-lasting. It's not witch-craft or voodoo or mumbo-jumbo to believe in conscience independence from the body, it is a belief that we are more than flesh and bone - and why do most Christians have such negative reactions to anyone seeking to better understand the spiritual side of our exisitance.

Maybe that is why (to me) repeating mass in church and repeating verses over and over again seems a bit pagan or compusive disorder at the very least. I firmly believe that Repeating Biblical text 200 times doesn't get you any closer to God than believing in it once!
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2005, 10:39:19 PM »

BigRog,

"I have to agree. We (species on earth) have been evolving for a very long time."

Who are you agreeing with? I was pointing out that if evolution was as scientist say it was, there was not enough time in only a few billion years. Evolving is a long slow drawn out process. I just can't imagine how suddenly some creature had the gift of sight. Which developed first? The eye, or the part of the brain to recieve and translate the information. Then the development of the optic nerve. The evolution theory deals with things that improve upon a creature and discards things that are useless. How long would an eye remain if it was useless? Just thinking about the small intricate changes that had to take place in evolution I can't see that the eye and that part of the brain slowly developed uselessly for millions of years. When either one of them was useless it would not have developed further. And I can't imagine evolution just suddenly developed an organism with sight.  

BigRog - "I hate to offend my Christian frends here but this everything is recent stance flys in the face of accepted science."

What is accepted by science is only what has been proven by science. Just in my lifetime science didn't "accept" other planets outside our solar system. I remember hearing that way back in my younger years and remember wondering why they thought that way with all those other stars out there. There are other things in our life time that science didn't "accept" but now they do. But I can't think of what they are.

John - Some thing you mentioed brought to mind what I always think about religion. There are those that believe, have faith, or are religious. Religion to me is an empty act performed as directed by.... what ever.

God could have done things in such a way as to be mathmatically disected but to say matter of factly that He did it that way to me is once again reducing God to the limits of man's imagination. I think it takes more than magic to make something out of nothing.
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2005, 07:58:34 PM »

I have to agree with the creationist point of view. Every site that i've becom a member on thats had open forums I've had to fight the point. But this site is different. We're here to have a good time not to blast each other.
When i look at the world around me. Everything is too fine tuned. Everything is to perfect to have come around by chance. Look at a atom in out bodies for example. If the electrical charges of the atoms were off off by 0.00000001% they atoms would instantaneously explode. I mean just that, how could that have evolved like that? How could that be by chance. Also as soon as i've seen those intermdiate forms. I'll be a believer, all those millions of years and not a single intermediate form.





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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2005, 08:00:29 PM »

I forgot to mention, if you guys are looking for good info on this go to www.ICR.org They have tons of info.




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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2005, 09:05:26 PM »

Beeboy:

Glad to see a young fella with faith, that is something I hope we see more and more of - there is too much hate and disbelieve in the world.

I'm a little more open-minded in that God is the creator of all, but I also believe that man can MENTALLY evolve (you see it in our technology everywhere you look, we may not read minds BUT we can communicate instantaniously anywhere on the Globe) and every day we get closer to understanding that all things are created, rather than evolved (with a major important difference) being that someday, we can use technology to explain how God did all of this.

Faith is a very important part of believe of a supreme being - but proof (through the advancement of science) is where I believe we are headed.

Add Proof through science with advances in moving the conscience spirit away from the phsyical body "MAGNIFIES the believe" in a supreme being, it does NOT lead you away from it.

If a UFO were to land in Times Square and fifty 4 foot tall grays walked out with technologies that are beyond out comprehension - suddenly we go from Faith or Belief in UFOs, to proof in life elsewhere in the Universe. Technology will do the same for better understanding God.

If scientific principles explain gravity and motion and sub-atomic particles and quarks and the speed of light and sound and on and on - I believe we are explaining how God made things work, his laws of science: the way things work on God's Earth.

People are too busy trying to separate Church and State and Science and God - meanwhile, what is wrong with "Christian" Scientists (no that is NOT an oxymoron) will be using science to PROVE God's existance to non-believers. Why are people so paranoid to think science is STRICKLY used to prove evolution over creationism.

My thought is that is evolution is real, and it is part of God's long-term plan. Is THAT so hard to believe?

I mentioned the Empirer Crab which was a species of crab that 1 out of 10 looked something like the Empirer, and these 10% were constantly tossed back in to the ocean as a respect to the Empirer. After years of crabbing and tossing all the ones who looked like the empirer, no crabs were left in the sea EXCEPT those who looked like the empirer - thus MAN created an "evolved species" through selective breeding where all the off-spring carried the same look as the parent and these crabs still have the look of the Empirer today.

Women in Africa and other starving countries, who rarely eat and never get good nutrician are still as fertile (or more so) as Western women who would miscarry or lose their monthly cycles if they had the same poor nutricianal intake - the African women have EVOLVED to breed under extreme conditions. Evolution doesn't mean you need to pop-out a 3rd eye or fifth limb, it just means something has changed to adapt, and often that involve minute changes.

Creatures either evolve or parrish when drastic changes in the enviroment occur - can't that be part of God's plan?, to make most species adaptable to an enviroment which MAN has done nothing but polute for generations.

Maybe I'm nuts thinking God just didn't dump a ton of creatures on the Earth and say "you are now on your own - good luck" I would hope God made these magnificent creatures of this world adaptable to change and NO MATTER WHAT "SYNONYM" YOU USE: Adapt means Evolve.

So, I'm hoping that I'm on the right track in my understanding. I think God is real and has made us adaptable to the enviroment which we destroy with our waste. Other than God, only man can kill off the planet as we have come so close to doing so many times. But in the same light, I think God has given us the brain power to someday understand the methods he used to create everything. Heck, we already know that atoms are enormous compared to the minute particles they are made of.

I saw a comparison where that said the smallest particles of atoms (string theorist love this) are as small as a tree compared to the Milkyway Galaxy. Imagine all the trees you could fit in a box the size of the Milkyway and that is how RELATIVELY small strings are to the atom. So there is no such thing as BIG or SMALL - only things of relative size.

As an avid Out of Body traveler believer and occasional voyager, I know the conscience body is real and VERY separate from the phsyical body - and it is the spirit that the Bible talks of on nearly every page,the spirit is the part of us that best reflects the "Man" that God created, not the phsyical body (which is nothing more than a suitcase that holds the real ever-lasting creation of God - our conscience being) the Holy Spirit is the collective of all positive energy in the Universe a great pool of conciousness.

I don't think God has much to do with the sufferage of the phsyical body, his interest is in the spirit (the conscience being) because it is eternal, even science agrees that energy cannot be destroyed only changed - I think THAT is a great step toward science accepting God.

So I hope your generation understands that science isn't ANTI-GOD. There are people trying their damndess to disprove creationism, but I think they will fail and many scientists are going to prove creationism in terms BEYOND faith, and doing it with real math and formulas. And once the die-hard believers who argue that evolution is NOT possible will start to bend and I think eventually EVERYONE will meet somewhere in the middle with EYE-OPENING awareness where God comes out shining in the eyes of athiests and agnostics alike.

I hope I have made some sense - I just think that people are always drawing lines in the sand and choosing WHICH side of the line to stand - the only problem with that is that MAN drew that line, not God. I think it is a seemless intergration from one theory to the other, it takes understanding and flexiblity on both ends of the spectrum - but when enough proof is placed on the table, we will all be Godly People and it will be then that man is ready for the NEXT step of his exisitance.

I'm ending my input on this topic, it is way off the main thread. I think I've covered a lot of stuff here and if I haven't made any valid points which lit of a bulb in your thinking, then I doubt I ever will.
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2005, 09:46:08 PM »

I have to say, I beleive there are many theories that attempt to explain evolution, most all falling short.  However, evolution is a fact.  One which at this time, can no more be explained than the resurrection of Christ.  Some things in this life have to be accepted..... much as people with a religious bent, accept the stories of the bible.  Neither side of the issue can prove or dissprove the others position, so FAITH becomes the hinge or lynch pin.

I dissagree that evolution is a slow process.  I believe it is a violent, explosive release of energy, which when a trait is selected for, quickly replaces the stagnating lifeform currently occupying that slot in the natural order.  I think that the "long time" is the periods during which the creatures, grow, spread, and reach the limits of their existence, before some other trait is selected for.  Mans evolution, or growth, has quickly eliminated many species, in both flora and fauna.  Perhaps, these extinctions will prove to be our undoing.   I believe that this possiblity is at least as viable as any other.

Who knows what will be selected for next time?  If there is a divine being, who can say he/she/it, will not select insects, as the predominent lifeforce on this planet?  How vain must we be to think we are the only ones, capable of living this life?
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Location: Upstate NY


« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2005, 03:07:06 PM »

I've learned over time that nearly every religion starts with these familiar basics: Love your neighbor. Treat others as you wish to be treated.

From many religions, including Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism, I also see another common theme: worry about the beam in your own eye rather than about the speck in your neighbor's. Maybe that's a correlary of the first law.

Everything else is just a detail.  Tongue
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Lesli
http://beeyard.blogspot.com/
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