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Author Topic: And it begins  (Read 5570 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2008, 10:22:46 AM »

keep us posted.  i'd be interested to see if you get a response and what it will be.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
lovelyembalmer
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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2008, 11:59:38 AM »

I'm a vegetarian. It does not mean I have to push my right to choose on anyone else. Same goes with every other fad.  As for our public schools, unfortunately even if we don't have kids in public school our taxes pay the bills. Our kids were home schooled (the youngest from 1st grade to 6th grade & oldest from 4th to 8th). Public school was never an option with us as we decided before they were born to do private school and if that didn't work home school. Parents who do send their kids to public school have to be very diligent and active in their kids lives.  If they don't all kinds of mis information can be given to the kids and they will believe it.  Follow the majority and don't get ridiculed for not believing the same thing, is the mentality of the kids.  We as parents have to teach them that the majority is not always right.  My mom and dad always said, "If everyone else is jumping off the mile high bridge without a parachute, are you going to jump too?"  I did attend public and private school, and without my parents support in my choices I could have gone a different direction than where I am now.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2008, 04:43:32 PM »

Unfortunately, I've had more experience with lawyers and the judicial system than I care for. Chances are, it wouldn't be "worth it".  First, you hire a lawyer ($$) who draws up and files papers ($$). The the school district lawyer responds (note: teacher hasn't paid a dime), the the lawyers begin filing more papers ($$). Judges are busy, and will push very hard for the lawyers to reach an out of court settlement. More talking ($$). The Judge might direct you to mediation, then you get to pay not only your lawyer's hourly fee ($$), but that of the mediator ($$$$). After several hours ($$$), when both your lawyer and the mediator make it clear to you that: 1) going to trial will require many more billable hours ($$$$$); 2) that "slander and defamation of character" are difficult to prosecute; 3) that even if you win, the teacher will likely get reprimand and not much more; and 4) that you are very unlikely to recover any of your costs; THEN you realize that you've spent thousands of dollars that you could have spent on bee stuff.

First mistake... don't hire a lawyer for something like this... You can do everything yourself when sueing for up to $14,999.99 At $15,000 though, you must have a lawyer, so go without a lawyer.  Yes it does cost about $76 to file the suit here (that includes service).  Also, you're not filing suit against the school district, you're filing suit against the teacher.  You can do this because the school district never told her to slander anyone... so it would be her lawyer, and in all liklihood it would be her union lawyer... however, unions are funny things, they aren't likely to stick by her if she's going to cost them more in legal fees to defend her than she's likely to continue paying in dues over the course of her career.  Now there's not really anything for them to depose you on, since you weren't directly involved in the incident, but they may want to depose your grandchild... and that's fine, that'll just cost them money.  Then if the judge sends you to see a mediator, it's just you and her and her lawyer... so the $$$ is only being paid out by her (remember that up to this point, the only two things you might pay for is 1, filing suit to begin with ($76), and possibly hiring a lawyer for an hour or so to be with your granddaughter if they depose her (but that is optional).  Now if by any chance, you happen to be friends with or are a lawyer, then depose every student at the school... cause that'll cost them some more. 

It's kinda dirty tactics I know, but this isn't a contract dispute or something similar, this was personal to begin with.
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Pond Creek Farm
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« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2008, 06:32:46 PM »

With all due respect Sgt., that is bad advice. There are serious costs, and the most serious is the deposition of a little girl.  While you seem to treat this as a necessary evil, it is not.  Such a process would likely cause no small amount of stress for her and her parents.  Moreover all of these depositions you suggest to bleed the union are a two edged sword.  Who do you think has to pay the court reporter to show up?  That would be the party calling the depositions.  Moreover, the time investment alone makes it too costly for a pro se litigant.  You likely would never get to mediation or to depositions because the attorney would bury you in motions and written discovery.  Moreover, the procedural elements of litigation are typically the downfall of the pro se litigant and the unskilled attorney alike. Different courts have different rules, but when the stakes get high enough or certain relief is requested, the case is always put in a venue where the full blown rules of civil procedure and evidence will apply.  It is not logical to assume that the case would stay in a division with relaxed rules.  The lawyer would be foolish to allow it and would file something to cause a transfer. Meanwhile while the pro se litigant is busy trying to research the law and figure out how to respond to the the pounding being dealt out by the attorney, that attorney is smiling as fees are earned and sport is had at the same time.  They may even take the opportunity to train a younger lawyer on the case and get even more benefit out of the deal.  Knee jerk threats to sue are simply not effective because the threat is hollow.

Litigation is an avenue of last resort.  Litigation never solved any problem, but people talking to one another does. Even if the problem is solves by heads rolling, that process will be a political one more than a courtroom one. I look forward to hearing how the school deals with this next term.
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Brian
johnnybigfish
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« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2008, 07:03:29 PM »

 Ok,...heres a little story....
 About how kids nowdays think (at least my 16 yr old son)

he gets picked up late at nite, for curfew violation.
 He cant understand WHY...All he sees is that him and his buddys got picked up, for doing nothing,... at 3 in the morning.
 He gets 28 hrs community service...He still whines that hes done nothing wrong...he also gets "Jury Duty" in a "Kids Court" Three trials. ..(This is, to me and Janelle,is pretty cool actually),
Ok,..I'm standing in the back watching whats going on....Most the hearings are over and the kids (about 25 or so) are all sitting and chatting and just carrying on like a mess of kids do.
 The bailiff say at this point,"The faster you be quiet, the faster you can go home"...My son and his friend Austin, are still yapping..So are a few of the girls...The bailiff then says after about 15 minutes,"Theres only a couple of you holding things up here". Finally, we all get to leave.
Now this is what kills me.....On the ride back home, my son says..."I dont see why he made us stop talking"...Us talking had nothing to do with the hearings and they were over anyways!"( by the way, the judge is still on the bench discussing things with the kid attorneys and prosecutors...Like I said, it really is a good program)
So,.....( I could kill this kid sometimes..... angry)..Janelle has to explain the whys of court etiquette..
My answer, simply stated was,"Brad, if someone with a badge on, or wearing a robe in court tells you to do something, you just DO IT!!!".
 He still walks around telling all the people who bring this episode up about the great injustice that has been done to him.
 No wonder I'm so high strung nowadays, huh?....Him and his peers are going to run the country soon!

your friend,
john
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2008, 07:20:04 PM »

Since you brought it up.... and this is way off topic. Has been for awhile. I been hijacked grin

I was picked up way back in the day when I was 16 for being out around 2 am. I never heard of a curfew, but there it was biting me on the butt. And I still to this day will agree with your son. If your parents allow you to be out at that time then the (whatever) year old has the right to be out.

I wasn't doing anything wrong and wasn't going to do anything wrong. Also had some buddies picked up right in their own front yard for being out after curfew. Dragged all the way to the cop shop and parents called to come down town. Man those parents were PO'd. At the cops not the kids. Wouldn't even bother to knock on the door. Just a basic kidnapping.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Pond Creek Farm
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« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2008, 07:46:53 PM »

sorry about the hijack
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Brian
johnnybigfish
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« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2008, 08:22:31 PM »

 Oh,...I forgot to mention, he was spending the nite in town..he got a break when his "Kid lawyer" brought up the fact to the "Kid Prosecutor" that Brad was from the country and had no idea there was a curfew. I told Brad that the big deal was not the cops, but the fact that he KNEW he was doing wrong when him and his freinds snuck out to meet other friends after Austins momma went to bed. Brad knew about the curfew as some of his friends have also been picked up in the past.

Ohhhh....And talk about terrible timing...The 3 nites before,(consecutively) the naborhood which he was at, was vandalized BIG TIME!..200 cut tires, lamp posts knocked down and mailboxes knocked down...And, right before he left the house I had asked him if he thought Austin had done these things!!! Lips Sealed
ok,..thats all about that Smiley

your friend,
john
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Irwin
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howdy all


« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2008, 07:48:03 AM »

I'm sorry about the hijack to. I will start a new post when the school year starts I will put      my granddaughter's school        in the subject heading
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2008, 09:28:09 AM »

Yeah I won't even talk about public schools any more. They made me so mad.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

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