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Author Topic: Are you increasing varroa population with your screened bottom board?  (Read 15902 times)
SgtMaj
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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2008, 06:16:35 AM »

Dallas, Don't laugh but what is a "clipped pallet?"  embarassed (well, you can snigger a bit if you want..) rolleyes  Jody

Don't feel bad Jody, I was wondering the same thing.  From the sounds of his description though, it seems like I wouldn't know or need to know anyway, because it sounds like a commercial beek thing instead of a home beek thing.
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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2008, 08:28:02 AM »

Here are two different types of pallet clips.  one lets you stack hives back to back and the other leaves a 1/2" space between hives.   They just get screwed to the pallet and the deeps are placed over top. The clips prevent the hives from sliding off the pallet.

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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 10:05:08 AM »

Thanks Robo, now I understand.  Makes sense if you have a lot of hives & move them differrent places.  I have no way to lift the whole pallet but am thinking about those little trailers you put together to use, to see how many I could get on one of those W/room to work em to take to the organic farm I buy from or other places so I can tow & drop.  Have a solar charger for fencing that I could put around the whole thing to keep critters out. What are the pros & cons of each type of clip?  I would think that the 1/2 apart would give a little wiggle room to take tops & supers on & off..Jody
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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »

In Rob's picture the clip on the left is a "w" clip and gives space for the hive bodies to dry out and not rot. The other is a "u" clip and boxes can be placed close together.  A trailer is a great way to go if you don't have a way to pick them up all at once.
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2008, 06:27:10 PM »

Thanks Dallas, here in the PNW we have to really work at keeping things dry! rolleyes  BUT it's better than 90 degrees w/90 humidity!  If it gets over 70 w/50 humidity we think we are "braising"! cool  Jody
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Gware
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 09:44:11 PM »

well if this temp theory is true it sure did not help the feral bees that was inside a thick tree trunk with only an opening the size of a silver dollar. I am sure it got hot in that tree trunk but it seemed to not stop the mites from reaching a level enough to kill the hive.
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annette
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2008, 11:18:11 PM »

Ok, I feel pretty happy with my SBB on the hives. I know that mites drop off and through the screen and are gone far away from the hive. It just seems cleaner to me than closing up the bottom. Whenever I place my tray in to monitor the hives, I find so much debris falling down. I like knowing it is away from the hive.

So I believe it helps with the varroa mites that naturally fall off the bees. I do not know if the temperature differences between open SBB and closed SBB  make any difference in mite population. Maybe it doesn't matter either way.

One thing that I noticed this summer is my bees have gotten much smaller due to letting them draw out their own combs. And I have not had to do any powder sugar dusting this summer because the mite population is also very little. My bees are regressing in size and this may have something to do with the mite population. I will have to check this out further to be sure.

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Robo
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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2008, 09:21:22 AM »

well if this temp theory is true it sure did not help the feral bees that was inside a thick tree trunk with only an opening the size of a silver dollar.


Another anecdotal response.  That is like saying wearing a seatbelt didn't help the guy who died going off a cliff when his brakes failed.  Unless you know what was the demise of said colony,  and the other issues involved,  your are just using your bias in judgment.

The ferals around here are booming.  I know others on the forum have strong feral populations as well. All the survivor stock (been in the location for more than 1 year) that I have removed have sealed up every little hole in the cavity except the entrances. 

Quote
So I believe it helps with the varroa mites that naturally fall off the bees. I do not know if the temperature differences between open SBB and closed SBB  make any difference in mite population. Maybe it doesn't matter either way.


Or maybe it does.  Maybe the mites that naturally fall off are insignificant compared to the increase of mites that are raised in the cooler/drier environment. You can easily get the so-called "advantages" of SBB mite separation without taking the heat away.

It amazes me some of the hoops people will jump through to be "more natural" in their beekeeping but will just ignore, or justify to themselves it is not important, that the natural temperature/humidity aspects of feral colonies.   I don't know if it is just "we know better", the human need for visual stimulation, or we are just sheep to what others believe.  My experience has shown me that heat definitely plays a big role in a hive. I admit it is not "the answer" and I don't know the full extent, but I'm not willing to discount it. The bees seem to think it is important, and despite all our knowledge,  I tend to believe them more than man.  When I put a 7 watt night light on the bottom board,  the queen will move right down above the light to lay. Hives that I heat build up faster in the spring than those that I don't.

Here is an interesting read on nest scent and heat -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,17318.0.html

 Sometimes I just wonder if we are just cutting the nose off to spite the face.  My ancestors where fishermen and I can remember my grand dad telling me that when they clammed and caught a star fish,  they would cut it up to kill it, because star fish eat clams, and throw it back into the water.  What they didn't realize was that each piece would regenerate and they where actually increasing the star fish population. 
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Gware
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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2008, 04:30:56 PM »

There also has been scientific  quote quote research done on screened bottoms as well. You can find any research to support a particle veiw.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2008, 01:48:30 AM »

I nearly lost my bees to starvation this spring (lost 3 of 5) and have checked for mites weekly using a mite board.  I have yet to find a single mite on either board.  I have bottomless hives, using a slatted rack as a spacer board at the bottom.  I also use natural sized comb as I use foundationless frames.

I could argue that I am miteless due to having bottomless hives.
I could argue that the smaller cell size of the natural comb limits the mite population.
I could argue that I am miteless due to the brood interrupting during the near total starvation.

I credit all three.  The smaller the cell means there is less room and time for mite reproduction.  What mites are coming back to the hive from being passed bee to bee are falling out of the hive and unable to climb the 8 inches of open space between the ground and the hive.
 
I've found, in my 50 years of beekeeping, that there is never a silver bullet and it's a waste of time looking for one.  However, a combination of several ideas can work just as well as the proverbial silver bullet.

If you're using only one approach to the problem you're being myopic and narrow minded.  If you rule out something you don't think will work, you're being myopic and narrowminded.  I wear glasses, I'm myopic, but I'm not narrow minded,
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2008, 02:58:00 AM »

[Another anecdotal response. ]

I just find this whole post a little brain damaged.
You can post your opinion, but its crap listed because its 'anecdotal'.

Excuse me, but you aren't going to get university study responses asking the crew that posts on this board (no insults meant to any of us!)

So what sort of response are you looking for?

Or purhaps this is posted to cause some sort of uproar?

Just because a paper has some words typed on it just doesn't make it so.
And your avoiding believing anyone's opinion because it isn't proven in a scientific method.
But when the replies come back in quantity saying one thing, it has to imply a little truth.

I don't understand the purpose of this thread...
There's no reasonable room for reply or expression of opinion.
If I was the moderator, I think I'd move myself to: [REPRINT ARTICLE ARCHIVES]

[ I wear glasses, I'm myopic, but I'm not narrow minded]

Well my eyes were laser corrected, so I'm a little better then where I started from.
Some days if I was any narrower minded my ears would rub together and catch fire.
Other times I don't know how to wrap my mind around everything.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2008, 06:59:30 AM »

Either way I think it warrants further investigation.

No matter which way you lean in the debate over whether SBB does more to reduce or promote varroa... doesn't really matter, so long as you're aware of the other side of the coin... while it may not prove to be valuable info for beeks in Arizona or Florida, where the outside temps are close to the brood temperature anyway... it might make a big difference for a beek in Alaska who's dropping the hive temp. by 20+ degrees by opening up the bottom of the hive.

I keep noticing on here that people frequently forget that other beeks don't live in the same climate... I've been guilty of it, too.   Those differences have huge impacts on the methods used that are successful.
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« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2008, 07:29:11 AM »


I keep noticing on here that people frequently forget that other beeks don't live in the same climate... I've been guilty of it, too.   Those differences have huge impacts on the methods used that are successful.

this happens some times but not much, most questions on here have little to do with climate or location but there are some, what works best in your area sgtmaj? have of my hives had SBB's and the others had regular BB's, I still use SBB every now and then but not much, I have gone to what I call a pollinators BB, it is open on 2 sides, they still beard a little but not as much as a regular BB.
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Mickey
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« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2008, 05:56:06 PM »

Hi Rob Mickey here , Just had the State Bee Inspector here and was told I have  a weak colony with fairly heavy Varoa Mite population... Do have a sbb  . But more importantly I would like to treat the mites with some Oxalic Acid i had for a few years now. Couldn't give me the exact dose or exposure time, but did mention someone he knew heated up a large spoon , filled it with OA and put it under the sbb. Do you have any thoughts on this? Also got info on health certificate but I'll Email separately
thanks
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« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2008, 08:49:34 PM »

Do NOT heat a spoon and fill it with Oxalic acid.  You will get a faceful of fumes.  The safest is to buy the evaporator from Heilyser http://members.shaw.ca/orioleln/Vaporizer.htm and stand way back.  But I've made evaporators from brass pipe fittings, drilled a hole in an old shallow super and threaded it in and heated it with a torch while standing (carefully) up wind, using a smoker to validate that direction.  You do NOT want to breath the fumes.
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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2008, 09:04:17 PM »

I will continue with SBB'd as well.
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2008, 08:27:17 PM »

Do NOT heat a spoon and fill it with Oxalic acid.  You will get a faceful of fumes. 

I lent Mickey my vaporizer to use.  I think it is kind of interesting that the state bee inspector would recognize oxalic acid as a viable treatment since it isn't register.  The scary part is that he tells of heating on a spoon Lips Sealed
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« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2008, 10:28:22 AM »

Do NOT heat a spoon and fill it with Oxalic acid.  You will get a faceful of fumes. 
I lent Mickey my vaporizer to use. 

Nosey ol' me, who is Mickey?  Beautiful day in this great life, Cindi
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« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2008, 10:58:07 AM »

Nosey ol' me, who is Mickey?  Beautiful day in this great life, Cindi


http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,16851.msg133357.html#msg133357
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 09:13:20 AM »

Rob, oh brother!!!  Sometimes one can't see for lookin'.  Have a great and wonderful day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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