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Author Topic: Sooo disillusioned  (Read 4792 times)
buzzbee
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2008, 08:16:01 AM »

All bees will draw comb if and when they need it.They build comb for brood expansion area or storage.If there is a sufficient flow and the bees are assuming normal growth and are healthy the colony should have increased in size early in the summer.The bees may just be maintaining colony size now.The  bees she has may not be enough to cover much brood while the others are out foraging.The best scenario here would be if you were able to get a couple frames of brood and bees from another colony.
Don't give up,they may still surprise you.
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bmacior
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 08:57:24 AM »

the bees are Minnesota Hygenics.  I bought a 3 lb package.  Isn't feeding sugar water supposed to simulate a flow?
Sugar = carbs = wax production = comb.  What part of the equation am I missing? huh

You all have have given me a ray of hope that my bees can kick into high gear and become a strong colony before winter.  They are such calm bees (of course they have no excess stores to defend) I would hate to lose them.

question about light syrup.  Is light syrup with less sugar?  I am feeding 1:1.

When do they start producing fat winter bees?
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kathyp
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2008, 09:24:06 AM »

Sugar = carbs = wax production = comb.  What part of the equation am I missing?

need

if they don't need it, they won't make it.

the trick is to find out if they don't need it because something is wrong, or because they are in a natural slowdown.

one other thing from you original post.  don't count on the behavior of the bees to tell you if they are queenlees.  some hives are quiet even with no queen.

can you take some pictures of your brood area and post them?  if you do not have the time on here to post pics yet, one of the moderators would do it for you.  it would be a way for all of us to take a look and give you some ideas.  take many and we can sift through them.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2008, 11:58:47 AM »

Hi Barb!
 I really like your tenacity!..Bee stings, emergency rooms,......getting more hives anyways...!
 You are ONE TUFF COOKIE!!!
 There sure was a lot of input on your situation huh?..I was thinking about the honey bound reason myself, but I've been pretty lucky so far with my bees..I've seen my boxes get so jammed full of honey in a weeks time it made my head spin almost!
 I hope you get things going good in short order..I dont think you have a major problem though.
Dont forget to tell us what works!

your friend,
john
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bmacior
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2008, 01:21:45 PM »

Thanks for the support John.

December 1999 I went on a cruise, had a great time.  Xmas day I went into the ER with the "flu".  (Missed all the 2000 fireworks around the world, dang it).  6 weeks later I woke up from a coma, quadraplegic.  ARDS (adult respiratory syndrome) is what they said, what started it they didn't know (they did call the CDC but no on else from the cruise was in my shape), most people don't survive it.  9 months later I went back to work 1/2 days.  3 months later back to work full time.  A bee sting ain't going to slow me down!  cheesy

My new hives are going to be 8 frame mediums.  Plan on doing wax and rosin finish.  Really leaning toward foundationless because I want small cell.  Do they make small cell foundation for mediums?  Besides I think most recycled wax (that they put on the plastic foundation) has chemicals in it and I don't want that.

Will take some pictures.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2008, 03:53:07 PM »

hi barb,
i got some medium small cell from betterbee.
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bmacior
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2008, 05:43:06 PM »

okay, got pictures.  Now what do I do?  Box 1 has 5 frames drawn both sides, 1 frame that hasn't been touched, and the others drawn on 1 side.  Box 2 has 1 drawn both sides, 1 frame drawn on one side, the others not touched.  Box 2 frames pulled up from box 1.  Didn't take pictures of them.

Barb
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kathyp
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2008, 06:13:30 PM »

PM buzzbee or another moderator and see if they can help you get your pics posted. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
buzzbee
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2008, 06:34:34 PM »

Barb,
I sent you a PM.
I would put all drawn frames in 1 box until 8 or 9 frames are drawn and remove the second box until then.
And keep the syrup fed to them. Make sure the syrup doesn't get too old.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2008, 06:49:33 PM »

>My new hives are going to be 8 frame mediums.

Cool.

>  Plan on doing wax and rosin finish.

It's the best I've found...

>  Really leaning toward foundationless because I want small cell.

That would be my preference.

>  Do they make small cell foundation for mediums?

Yes.  They do.  But if you want to use foundation, I'd buy the unwired deeps and cut them in half.  But you can buy the vertically wired mediums.

>  Besides I think most recycled wax (that they put on the plastic foundation) has chemicals in it and I don't want that.

Not on purpose.  But yes, the entire wax supply is contaminated.

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Michael Bush
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jojoroxx
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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2008, 11:21:35 PM »

Side note:Sgt Maj said, "You shouldn't ever plan on harvesting anything from package bees the first year anyway... "

Not anything? That's what I thought too, but one of my hives from a package installed in April are very strong, and they have completely filled their upper deep body with honey. I added a super under the full body, and was planning on harvesting a few frames of the honey from the full box to open it up some, and return it to its position below the super. Would you? Or should I just leave it, and keep adding supers below?

I feel for you, Disillusioned. In bees, there are so many things to consider, and aspects of their care we can, and should control. But their intimate link with nature reminds us who is really in control... not us!

One other question, Hooeyaman said, "...if you keep feeding they will get lazy, so quit feeding and let nature take its course...." Do you really think feeding them will make them lazy? Not all the bees are at the feeder after all.

I love this forum.



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bmacior
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2008, 12:08:36 AM »

I was going to pull box 2, but the semi commercial guy I bought my bees from said to leave it.  While the bees bees really haven't done any more in the way of building comb in box 2, they keep the brood covered.  He said they would hatch out and all go back down,  They haven't done that.

I put 2 2qt syrup containers on that I stagger so they are never out of syrup.  I read somewhere (I believe at Michael Bush's site which I really like), they don't get too concerned about a little mold (not a problem).  Granted with smaller containers I'm in there once a week replacing one of them, but I enjoy it.  I only have the one hive (there was supposed to be 2 but that is another story) so it's not bother.  God willing they survive me and the winter, I won't be feeding all summer long next year.

jojorox: I think pulling honey from first year hives all depends on the individual hive. 

Still working on the pictures.
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bmacior
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2008, 07:57:35 AM »

P.S.  I put on the entrance reducer, but due to my work schedual it'll be 2 weeks bfore I get back the hive to pull box 2.
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kathyp
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2008, 10:48:53 AM »

some think feeding will make a hive lazy.  my experience is that they will ignore syrup in favor of nectar.  right now, i have syrup on my observation hive and on the last swarm i picked up.  the swarm is taking some syrup as the outside sources are dwindling.  my observation hive, installed a couple of weeks ago with some honey, is taking no syrup.  they find enough for their numbers outside.

don't worry about pulling that 2nd box until the weather changes.  it is important to reduce space when the weather is cold.  it is less important when the weather is warm.  my neighbor stacked his hives high before the raspberry flow.  granted, they probably used it all, but it was certainly more space than they needed at the time. 

don't plan on getting honey from a first year hive. it's a bonus if you get it.  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »

Here are some pics from bmacior:
http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s346/bmacior/
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2008, 07:03:51 PM »

i see two problems i think.  one is that you used plastic foundation?  the other is that you don't seem to have many bees to be drawing out that foundation.  however....on pic 9 it looks like you have larvae, and you have capped brood.  not knowing how many of those pics are of the same frames, i still think your population problem will reverse itself shortly if nothing goes wrong. 

my guess is that your bees got off to a slow start drawing that foundation well.  the queen didn't have enough room to lay well.  the population dropped before she got things caught up.  they are backfilling a lot of the brood area with syrup.  i don't know....maybe try not feeding for a week or two?

wait for other opinions.  that's just my thoughts off the top of my head.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2008, 07:59:50 PM »

Kathy,
Don't you think that if she got 4 or 5 frames of drawn comb that would make all the difference in the world? Let me know of your thoughts. I live a few miles north of Barb (about 70) I have a ton of drawn comb so I thought I could sell her a few and it would make a big difference. Based off of the pics that we just saw, it confirmed my thoughts. They just don't have any room for brood now.
Let me know.
Frantz
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bmacior
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« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2008, 08:09:40 PM »

All the pictures are of different sides, except for the close ups.  All the drawn out frames were totally covered in bees.  I shook them off so we could see what was in the cells.  When I blow them up, it looks like larvae to me.   If it is larvae, I'm due for a population explosion.  If it's honey, it's definitely time to stop feeding.  I would be happy to email anyone a full size picture for another opinion.

My hive came as a package with the plastic foundation.  My new hives next year won't be using it.
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kathyp
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« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2008, 08:17:13 PM »

drawn comb sure wouldn't hurt.  not an offer i'd turn down!!  smiley

Quote
All the drawn out frames were totally covered in bees

that makes a big difference.  in that case, things don't look so bad.

as i look at the frames, it looks like all the shiny stuff is nectar/syrup.  i see larvae in pic 9, so there is no doubt more.  i would agree that you are due for a population expansion.  in that case, the drawn foundation that frantz is offering will be great for your hive.

i don't think you are in such bad shape. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2008, 08:21:43 PM »

I started my first two hives with 10 frames of plastic foundation. I don't mind so much, although the burr comb can be annoying. My first attempt at building wooden frames was short on nails and glue, so I'm happy to have some of those plastic frames in those hives to give me a solid frame to lever out. I think the bees follow the idea that if a little propolis is good, a whole lot is better! Eventually I'll work those poorly constructed frames out, but I'm unwilling to scrap the investment the bees had made in the comb to just toss them.
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