Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 20, 2014, 04:13:50 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Langstroth vs top bar orientation Iowa  (Read 2276 times)
Ob1wizbang
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 9

Location: Sioux Center, Iowa


« on: July 08, 2008, 11:15:42 PM »

 
 In looking at various hives I've noticed that in a Langstroth hive the frames run parallel to the entrance, and in a TBH the frames run perpendicular to the entrance.

 Is there a reason behind this, or does it "just happen to be how it is"?

 Is there a general rule as to the orientation of the comb, to the location of the entrance in a feral/wild bee hive?

 Just curios. Thanks.
Logged

"When all Government, in matters foreign, and domestic, in small as in large things is drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it shall become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we are now separated!"   Thomas Jefferson
Ross
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 512

Location: Greenville, TX


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 07:09:22 AM »

You can do a Lang either way.  It's just historical convention.
Logged

www.myoldtools.com
Those who don't read good books have no advantage over those who can't---Mark Twain
jason58104
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 81


Location: lake park IA


« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 05:25:37 PM »

Stay with the langstroth hives.  Top bar hives are a pain in the tucus
Logged
utahbeekeeper
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 137


Location: Utah


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 05:35:02 PM »

Stay with the langstroth hives.  Top bar hives are a pain in the tucus

Welllllllll  Mr Bush might have something to say about that.  In fact, lemme ask.  What is the attraction of top Bar beekeeping? I am of the persuasion that top bar hives are enjoyed by some because thay are minimalist, and a throw back to yester-year much like the joy my wife gets out of making our own soap.  Measuring out lye, water and oil to the gram is anxious and somewhat dangerous, but very satisfying.  Would enjoy hearing from those who do Top Bar . . . no judgement, just curious.
Logged

Pleasant words are like an honeycomb, sweet to the soul and health to the bones.  Prov 16:24
jason58104
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 81


Location: lake park IA


« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 06:25:25 PM »

It may be enjoyable to some.  I see where you are coming from.  You also have to consider the ease of extraction, not to mention the ease of working the bees that comes with the Langstroth hive.  Top bar hives are fine if you care not about honey production.
Logged
Ob1wizbang
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 9

Location: Sioux Center, Iowa


« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 10:28:49 PM »

 Jason, I will definitely be going with the Langstroth design. I was just curious as to the difference in the frame orientation.

 Wondering how bees draw out the comb in their natural state, front to back, or side to side?

Thanks

P.S. Hope to see ya at the meeting Sunday.
Logged

"When all Government, in matters foreign, and domestic, in small as in large things is drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it shall become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we are now separated!"   Thomas Jefferson
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 11:02:31 PM »

Jason, I will definitely be going with the Langstroth design. I was just curious as to the difference in the frame orientation.

 Wondering how bees draw out the comb in their natural state, front to back, or side to side?

Thanks

P.S. Hope to see ya at the meeting Sunday.

In the past I made bottom boards where the entrance was on the long side instead of the short side as is customary, the bees didn't care.  You can orientate a Langstroth with the frames running either way.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Ob1wizbang
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 9

Location: Sioux Center, Iowa


« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 11:05:53 PM »

Thanks B2 grin
Logged

"When all Government, in matters foreign, and domestic, in small as in large things is drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it shall become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we are now separated!"   Thomas Jefferson
hankdog1
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 849


Location: Cedar Bluff, VA


« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 11:26:18 PM »

Just an observation but i think you have it turned around.  Langstroth hives run perpendicular and top bars run parallel. 
Logged

Take me to the land of milk and honey!!!
jason58104
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 81


Location: lake park IA


« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 07:12:52 AM »

The girls dont seem to care what way the frames are oriented to the entrance.  However, I always place my hives with the frames running magnetic north/south.  The girls seem to build less burr comb and draw out foundation better for me that way.
Logged
SgtMaj
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1464


Location: Corryton, TN


« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 08:02:02 AM »

The girls dont seem to care what way the frames are oriented to the entrance.  However, I always place my hives with the frames running magnetic north/south.  The girls seem to build less burr comb and draw out foundation better for me that way.

That is interresting. I wonder if that's just a one-time observation or if it can be repeated, and also wonder if it's specific to your area, or if those results can be repeated by others around the country as well.  Can anyone else verify this?
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6348


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 11:24:29 AM »

It is known as warm-way and cold-way.  When the frames are perpendicular to the entrance (most Langstroth hives) is it the cold-way.  When the frames are parallel to the entrance (like the DE Hive) it is warm-way.  I've run both with no problem.  One advantage of the warm way is that you can stand behind the hive to do inspections and not at the sides, makes life easier if you have a row of hives.  There are some claims to ventilation benefits as well. Read up on the DE hive if interested.

AS far AS top bar hive, you can have the entrance either way too.  I'm with Jason on TBHs.  I found them to become lazy once they grow to a certain size,  not sure if the bees don't like to grow horizontally or what.

Quote
Welllllllll  Mr Bush might have something to say about that.

Not sure what the point is here,  Michael seems to be a 8-frame medium Langstroth proponent. 
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


eri
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 309

Location: rural Orange County, central piedmont area, NC


« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 11:52:54 AM »

I'm with Jason on TBHs.  I found them to become lazy once they grow to a certain size,  not sure if the bees don't like to grow horizontally or what.

I'm curious if the natural preference is to grow vertically or horizontally, and with a quick search I didn't find much information.

It seems that in many of the cut-out removals photos I've seen, the top of the comb is attached to a horizontal surface and subsequent combs fan out horizontally from there. Also, in a Langstroth, the bees first fill the frames horizontally and then move up to the next box, and repeat. In a tree hollow, do they not find a 'ceiling' to attach to and build horizontally from that? And when they build in walls, they start at the top, move across, then down? These observations lead me to believe that the preference is to expand horizontally. Any research done on this?

For those of you who do cut-outs, what is your experience with the orientation of the combs (warm-way/cold-way) in relation to the location of the entrance?



Logged

On Pleasure
Kahlil Gibran
....
And to both, bee and flower, the giving and the receiving of pleasure is a need and an ecstasy.
People of Orphalese, be in your pleasures like the flowers and the bees.
jason58104
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 81


Location: lake park IA


« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 08:06:24 PM »

According to the Hive and the honeybee, the girls are programed to build their hives in a vertical fashion.  If you observe ferel colonies all the nests are built for upward growth
Logged
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6348


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 11:33:53 PM »

I'm curious if the natural preference is to grow vertically or horizontally, and with a quick search I didn't find much information.

It seems that in many of the cut-out removals photos I've seen, the top of the comb is attached to a horizontal surface and subsequent combs fan out horizontally from there. Also, in a Langstroth, the bees first fill the frames horizontally and then move up to the next box, and repeat. In a tree hollow, do they not find a 'ceiling' to attach to and build horizontally from that? And when they build in walls, they start at the top, move across, then down? These observations lead me to believe that the preference is to expand horizontally. Any research done on this?

For those of you who do cut-outs, what is your experience with the orientation of the combs (warm-way/cold-way) in relation to the location of the entrance?

It is hard to judge their preference because the shape of the cavity usually determines how the comb is drawn.  In a wall they build vertical and in a ceiling/floor they build horizontal.   I would agree that given the choice, they go vertical, and when you think about it, it makes the most sense for them.  AS they bring in honey, they store it from the top down which forces the queen and the brood down.  They start the winter below the honey and move up as the winter progresses and stores are used up. They don't need to break cluster to move vertically, but do to move horizontally.

Most of the removals I've done have comb the warm way,  though the entrance is not always near the comb,  and I think the cavity configuration has something to do with the comb orientation.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


jgarzasr
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 104

Location: Michigan


« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2008, 10:15:33 AM »

I started a TBH about 4 yrs ago - never have done anything for treatment of mites - pretty much let them take care of it.... and this hive is still strong.  It may not produce as much honey as my Langs - but the thick comb honey I get from it is the best.......
Logged
Daddys Girl
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 91

Location: Near Harpers Ferry, WV


« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2008, 01:04:27 PM »

Stay with the langstroth hives.  Top bar hives are a pain in the tucus

My TBH is fabulous.  A total joy to work and the bees are doing great.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13475


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2008, 07:20:08 PM »

Bees use whatever shape they have to.  They always have.

As far as the "warm way" (like the top bar hive) or the "cold way" (like the Langstroth), the British, who have square hives have been discussing it for years.  I've done a lot of both and think it makes no significant difference to the bees.

As far as top bar hives:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.338 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page Today at 04:24:31 AM
anything