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Author Topic: If this doesn't make you mad...  (Read 7785 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2008, 12:38:33 PM »

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Even if it were for parking tickets, had they arrested him a few days, and possibly even a few weeks earlier for it, he might not have committed this crime.


do you think they keep people in jail for parking tickets?

Quote
But I think it's more likely that they just weren't trying before, or at least not trying hard enough. 


on what known facts do you base this thought?

i'm not trying to yank your chain.  just trying to get a handle on what you think, and why you think it.  at this point it seems to me that you have a problem with cops in general.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2008, 03:39:06 PM »

"Jaynes was contacted by Cambridge police on October 2. While he denied knowing Curley, he was arrested on an outstanding warrant and taken into custody."

It appears to say he was arrested  huh  huh
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2008, 11:26:34 PM »

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Even if it were for parking tickets, had they arrested him a few days, and possibly even a few weeks earlier for it, he might not have committed this crime.


do you think they keep people in jail for parking tickets?

Quote
But I think it's more likely that they just weren't trying before, or at least not trying hard enough. 


on what known facts do you base this thought?

i'm not trying to yank your chain.  just trying to get a handle on what you think, and why you think it.  at this point it seems to me that you have a problem with cops in general.


No I don't expect he would have necessarily been kept in jail, but having been arrested shortly beforehand may have given him something else to think about, and if nothing else, may have made him more reluctant to offend, thinking that he's on their radar already.

Just basing it on my own observations, not really any given facts from the article.  I really don't have a problem with cops in general.  I have problems with some police policies though.

We used to have a great sheriff here, he was really diligent about getting violent offenders... reluctant to write tickets unless you were doing something wreckless (not just going with the flow of traffic through speed traps)... so what did we do?  Got rid of him of course... term limits.  Oh well, what can you do.  The guy that served closely with him will likely get elected this fall, so it won't be so bad.  But the city cops around here, the only thing you can count on them for, is to set up speed traps and write speeding tickets to people who were doing nothing wreckless.  The city cops around here won't even respond to violent crimes, and you're lucky if they show up within a few hours of a break in (they wouldn't want to accidentally bump into the criminal, then they might actually have to do something).  They are useless, lazy and pathetic.  I'm not saying this as someone that's been in trouble with the law, I've never been arrested or detained, and I have a spotless driving record.  It's just what I have observed from living here.  The difference between the sheriff's dept. and the city cops isn't the people working there, it's policies governing the two departments.  Because the police cheif never has to worry about getting re-elected, he's more concerned with making life easy for himself and his buddies than he is with serving the community.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2008, 02:15:59 AM »

I have to chime in here.  Having been a cop I served a lot of warrents and arrested a good number of people.  But having a warrent and being able to serve it (arrest) the person are 2 entirely different things. 

A few things have to happen: 
No police officer is aware of every warrent issued even within their own jurisdiction, so a warrent check is done on the basis of suspecious behavior.  Something has to prompt the officer to seek the information.
No police officer is aware of warrents from another jurisdiction unnless the crime is serious enough (felony--assualt or worse) to initiate interdepartmental notification.
Once out of jail, in this highly mobile society, finding the person for whom a warrent has been issued is like finding a needle in a haystack.  Remember, more and more sexual preditors and career criminals are purposely going homeless to avoid apprehension.
Then there is flight to avoid prosecution, this flight only has to be inter jurisdictional, not necessarily interstate.

Being able to serve an active warrent is more a matter of serendipity than anything else, even for those departments large enough to have a unit dedicated to warrent service.

We used to have a great sheriff here, he was really diligent about getting violent offenders... reluctant to write tickets unless you were doing something wreckless (not just going with the flow of traffic through speed traps)... so what did we do?  Got rid of him of course... term limits.  Oh well, what can you do.  The guy that served closely with him will likely get elected this fall, so it won't be so bad.  But the city cops around here, the only thing you can count on them for, is to set up speed traps and write speeding tickets to people who were doing nothing wreckless.  The city cops around here won't even respond to violent crimes, and you're lucky if they show up within a few hours of a break in (they wouldn't want to accidentally bump into the criminal, then they might actually have to do something).  They are useless, lazy and pathetic.  I'm not saying this as someone that's been in trouble with the law, I've never been arrested or detained, and I have a spotless driving record.  It's just what I have observed from living here.  The difference between the sheriff's dept. and the city cops isn't the people working there, it's policies governing the two departments.  Because the police cheif never has to worry about getting re-elected, he's more concerned with making life easy for himself and his buddies than he is with serving the community.

Tough on Crime is more a reflection of an attitude of the local Prosecutor than the Chief Law Enforcement officer.  The Police arrest, the Prosecutor selects which crimes he will take to court and how hard he will pursue them.  I would say you need a new Prosecutor rather than a new Sheriff. 

If you rely on government to make you safe, you are a fool because the US Supreme court has decided (at least 3 times) that although governments have the authority to serve and protect and punish criminals, they are not obligated to do so.  So if the police don't respond to your 911 call of a murder in progress until next week, if ever, you have no recourse.  I pack and that's why.

I'll get off my soap box now.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2008, 08:26:26 AM »

One more time. This appears to say he was arrested.
Or am I reading it wrong  huh

"Jaynes was contacted by Cambridge police on October 2. While he denied knowing Curley, he was arrested on an outstanding warrant and taken into custody."
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kathyp
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2008, 10:41:02 AM »

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I would say you need a new Prosecutor rather than a new Sheriff. 


and new judges.  no one pays any attention to the judges,  many of whom are elected or appointed locally.  it should infuriate people when judgeships, on any level, are used as political footballs or political payment.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2008, 05:37:32 PM »

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I would say you need a new Prosecutor rather than a new Sheriff. 


and new judges.  no one pays any attention to the judges,  many of whom are elected or appointed locally.  it should infuriate people when judgeships, on any level, are used as political footballs or political payment.

Well put, K!
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
SgtMaj
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« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2008, 07:54:47 AM »

One more time. This appears to say he was arrested.
Or am I reading it wrong  huh

"Jaynes was contacted by Cambridge police on October 2. While he denied knowing Curley, he was arrested on an outstanding warrant and taken into custody."


What we're discussing is whether he should have been arrested on that warrant before the murder, instead of after it like he was.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2008, 07:55:35 AM »

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I would say you need a new Prosecutor rather than a new Sheriff. 


and new judges.  no one pays any attention to the judges,  many of whom are elected or appointed locally.  it should infuriate people when judgeships, on any level, are used as political footballs or political payment.

I can agree with both here, we definately need tougher judges and prosecutors...
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2008, 08:34:04 AM »

What we're discussing is whether he should have been arrested on that warrant before the murder, instead of after it like he was.

My bad. Somehow I read it wrong thinking this happened before, not after.
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kathyp
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« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2008, 10:17:24 AM »

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whether he should have been arrested on that warrant before the murder

hard to answer when we don't know what the warrant was for. 

in the SR of Oregon, we claim not to have enough money to open our new jail and provide beds for all our criminals.  of course, we can provide cable tv, computers, movies, hobby shops, etc....
in the SR of Oregon, we turn out anyone who has not committed a serious crime, and even some who do.

sheriff Joe has it right.  prison is a punishment.  PB&J, pink skivvies, no TV.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2008, 11:01:12 AM »

http://www.mass.gov/legis/senate/warrant.htm#endnote01
WARRANTING IMPROVEMENT: Reforming the Arrest Warrant Management System

A Report of the
Senate Committee on Post Audit and Oversight
January 1999

CHILD MURDERER WAS WANTED ON 75 ARREST WARRANTS

In April 1993, Charles Jaynes wrote a letter threatening to rape his high school teacher and her children. He was convicted of making a threat, sentenced to a year of probation, and ordered to seek psychiatric help. Only three months into his probation, he stopped appearing for meetings with his counselor and probation officer. He started accumulating default and other arrest warrants for crimes such as violating probation, robbing ATMs, fraud, and forgery. From 1994 to October 1997, when Jaynes was arrested and charged with the murder of 10-year-old Jeffrey Curley of Cambridge, he had accumulated 75 arrest warrants. During this time he lived in plain view of the police, in Brockton with his father, and then in Cambridge with his mother, apparently without any fear of being arrested on any of those 75 outstanding arrest warrants.
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« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2008, 07:24:03 PM »

There was absolutely no excuse for that waste of human flesh (Jaynes) to be out of jail whatsoever.  Unfortunately there are many Jaynes on the loose here in Massachusetts, because, after all, they had a bad childhood or some other idiotic excuse for why they are what they are.   rolleyes  Nevermind the factthat the police are so understaffed, blah, blah, blah, the courts overburdened, more blah, blah, blah.  All excuses for not doing their jobs and not following the laws they all so liberally pass.  B*lls**t.  Sorry, but this stuff just sends steam out of my ears, and I live with it constantly.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2008, 12:36:29 AM »

Ditto on the tent-city warden... We should expand tent city to however big it needs to be for the whole country, and send 'em all there.


As far as the overburdened police and courts, there's a simple solution to that... stop writing meaningless traffic tickets (of course still write ones to anyone driving wrecklessly, but stop writing them to people driving within reason)... also, legalize and regulate most narcotics.  Heck, you could probably completely free up both the police and courts with the second one alone, and the taxes brought in from the sale of narcotics would be more than enough to fill the coffers of city council. 
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Keith13
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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2008, 08:05:11 AM »

Ditto on the tent-city warden... We should expand tent city to however big it needs to be for the whole country, and send 'em all there.


As far as the overburdened police and courts, there's a simple solution to that... stop writing meaningless traffic tickets (of course still write ones to anyone driving recklessly, but stop writing them to people driving within reason)... also, legalize and regulate most narcotics.  Heck, you could probably completely free up both the police and courts with the second one alone, and the taxes brought in from the sale of narcotics would be more than enough to fill the coffers of city council. 

Really if you think about it why don't we do away with all the minor laws that get in our way. they seem so trivial anyway. that way the only thing the police have to do is clean up after murders. for that matter when we legalize  the drugs we can all sit around in inner city shooting galleries in a perpetual heroin stupor, thus further reducing speeders on the road. now I see where your headed with this one rolleyes

No just giving you a hard time SGT MAJ

Where do you draw the line at driving recklessly? I thought we did that with speed LIMITS on the roads, anything above the LIMIT was wreckless.

Legalize drugs? one of the biggest problems in our inner city and suburbs both are drugs be it inner city Crack houses or suburban and rural Meth labs. Drugs breed crime 9 times out of 10 when a drug bust goes down ILLEGAL guns are involved what do you think these people are doing with those guns? Target practice after they smoke an eight ball? I think not.
We as a society have more than enough laws on the books to prevent the crime that occurs every day. the police need to make the arrest, the prosecutors need to stop reducing the charges down and seek real time, the judges need their hands untied to have the ability to lock the scum away or be removed and replaced with Judges who will, and the public needs to stop worrying about if Billy the BongHead had a tough childhood or his mommy didn't hold him enough.

Until these issues are addressed we will continue to have the discussions about little Johny being ripped away from his family by some predator who has a long list of previous offenses or little Sarah as she sat up late trying to finish writing her school book report due the next day having a errant bullet rip through her skull from shoot out between two rival drug dealers battling it out over prime drug selling real estate.

Keith

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Jerrymac
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« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2008, 08:57:49 AM »

If you legalize drugs, the price goes way down. There wouldn't be any money to be made. At least not enough to risk your life over. There would be no drug wars. There wouldn't be shoot outs with the cops, or high speed chases from the cops. There wouldn't be the need for a lot of the crime because more people could afford to buy the stuff and not have to steal to support their habit.

More addicts would be willing to seek help knowing there is no jail time should they be found out. More addicts would be out in the open and more people (family members) would know they need help. Be pretty much the same as alcohol.
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2008, 09:02:39 AM »

HEAR-HEAR People forgot prohibition ,let the fools kill themselves . angry
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Keith13
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2008, 09:41:19 AM »

If you legalize drugs, the price goes way down. There wouldn't be any money to be made. At least not enough to risk your life over. There would be no drug wars. There wouldn't be shoot outs with the cops, or high speed chases from the cops. There wouldn't be the need for a lot of the crime because more people could afford to buy the stuff and not have to steal to support their habit.

More addicts would be willing to seek help knowing there is no jail time should they be found out. More addicts would be out in the open and more people (family members) would know they need help. Be pretty much the same as alcohol.

If we legalize murder rape and child abuse will they go away as well?
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2008, 10:13:14 AM »

That is kind of a different thing and you know it.
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kathyp
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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2008, 10:33:16 AM »

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If you legalize drugs, the price goes way down. There wouldn't be any money to be made. At least not enough to risk your life over. There would be no drug wars. There wouldn't be shoot outs with the cops, or high speed chases from the cops. There wouldn't be the need for a lot of the crime because more people could afford to buy the stuff and not have to steal to support their habit.

More addicts would be willing to seek help knowing there is no jail time should they be found out. More addicts would be out in the open and more people (family members) would know they need help. Be pretty much the same as alcohol.


the experience of those countries that have tried legalization of soft drugs and ignoring hard drug use, is that crime goes up, drug use goes up, and productivity goes down.  an addicted person still needs money for the habit.  if they have no money because they are not productive, they still steal to support the habit.  organized crime and gangs still fight for the turf.  nuisance crimes go up as the number of drug affected people goes up.  someone with no inhibitions does not care if the whiz on your lawn gnome.

in addition, the target age group is the 21 to 30 age group.  what should these people be doing?  going to school, starting jobs and families, paying taxes.  knowing that being caught using will cost a job or a career is enough to keep many from experimenting.  for those bent on using, laws one way or another will make no difference.

drug and alcohol treatment only works when the addicted person wants to get clean.  you can court order it or have family intervention until he** freezes over.  if the addicted person does not want to change, they will not.  no law, or lack of law, will change that.

we could stop doing useless and meaningless things like taking sudafed off the shelves. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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