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Author Topic: If this doesn't make you mad...  (Read 8121 times)
Jerrymac
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 12:18:15 PM »

That is exactly what I mean keith13.
It doesn't matter what type of person it is, if they are being punished for a crime they didn't commit, that is just wrong.

There is a fine upstanding family that, while there had been no convictions, arrest, or time served, their lives were turned upside down and pretty much destroyed just because of suspicions. These suspicions were brought on by police investigations and of course the media. Now because of new testing methods, they have been cleared. Do they get their old life back? Know who I am talking about?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25608543/

No it is not just bad guys that get punished wrongly. I know a few good guys that served time for something not their fault.

criminals have too many rights and society is breeding career criminals, its downright scary!


Those are not just criminal's rights, they are your rights. They protect you also.
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 12:32:28 PM »

jerrymac, that case is not a good example.  it is still hinkey.  they cleared them on less than they had suspected them.  that's not to say that they are guilty, only that they may be an example of my point.  no case can be made beyond a reasonable doubt, and there are no other suspects to arrest.

also, they were never convicted of anything.  they did not go to jail.  most of the bad will that was directed toward them, they brought on themselves by their own behavior.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 01:24:14 PM »

There! You see. They have now been cleared and yet a lot of people are still going to consider they had something to do with it.

Yes I mentioned they were not charged. Just the suspicion messed up their life. And what did they do to bring bad things upon themselves? Be different? Not react the way everyone thinks they should have?
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 01:39:45 PM »

you could have picked the duke case or the mcmartin cases.  they might have been better examples. 

the ramsey case left and OJ like taste in everyones mouth even without a trial.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 02:25:15 PM »

With the jonbennet case they were not cleared of all wrong doing it just proved someone else's DNA on the girl.

But more to the point I just think in todays society to many rights are given to the criminal. these are the same criminals robbing pillaging murdering raping and spreading drugs throughout our neighboorhoods, then once the police finally catch up to them we worry about how many channels of cable they have or if they might get injected with a sedative because the police are unable to control them. America has her priorties way screwed and until the bleeding hearts have something directly affect them we will never change their outlook.

Keith
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2008, 03:38:06 PM »

With the jonbennet case they were not cleared of all wrong doing it just proved someone else's DNA on the girl.

This is what it says;

"To the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy wrote in a letter to the child's father, John Ramsey. "No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion."

And I will point this part out one more time;

 "No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion."

But now I suppose you will say the DA wasn't talking about the family.
you could have picked the duke case or the mcmartin cases.  they might have been better examples. 

OH! So you know of such cases?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2008, 10:15:03 PM »

With the jonbennet case they were not cleared of all wrong doing it just proved someone else's DNA on the girl.

This is what it says;

"To the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy wrote in a letter to the child's father, John Ramsey. "No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion."

And I will point this part out one more time;

 "No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion."

But now I suppose you will say the DA wasn't talking about the family.
you could have picked the duke case or the mcmartin cases.  they might have been better examples. 

OH! So you know of such cases?

The way I read that is that the DA wasn't claiming John Ramsey was innocent, just that no innocent person should have to be subjected to such public ridicule. 
There was something fishy about that case from the get go and the police mishandled it from the beginning so important evidence was destroyed or overlooked and later was too late to get it or correct mistakes.  Once evidence is compromised the successful conclusion to the case is almost always in doubt and in the Jonbenet case even the DNA evidence was mishandled.

As I said, the US justice system has it's faults, but it's still the best justice system in the world.  In some places in this world, even in these modern times, the time from crime discovery to arrest to conviction to execution is still counted in days instead of years or decades like it is in the USA.

BTW, there are numerous Supreme Court cases that have ruled that the Police (Government) has no obligation to protect you or even prosecute a criminal, just that they have the authority to do so If They So Choose.

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« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2008, 11:15:09 PM »

jerrymac, you still have not told me what you think would be a better system?  if you want perfection, you'll have to wait for Gods judgment.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2008, 12:36:41 AM »

jerrymac, you still have not told me what you think would be a better system?  if you want perfection, you'll have to wait for Gods judgment.

The system is probably about as good as you can get. It is the people I have problems with. A person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But as we see here John Ramsey sure isn't innocent.

Also we have rights that protect all of us. But as we see here, there are some people that would like for those rights to be revoked.

As I said, I have nothing against the system. It is the people. Right here in Lubbock I have watched the news and seen where a person was picked up in connection of a crime, and the people being interviewed would be spewing all this hate towards this person. A few days later it is revealed, without much fan fair, this person had nothing to do with the crime.

Now put yourself in the place of these people it does happen to. How do you think they feel? And it could happen to you. Here are a few examples  I know have happened here and has messed up peoples lives. Some one falsely accused of molesting girls. He lost his job. Police raided a house, tore things up, just because someone said there were drugs in there. They got evicted. 
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2008, 10:16:16 AM »

not much you can do about the human component until robots rule smiley.  we are what we are, which is flawed.  we make judgments, and we make mistakes.  cops, judges, prosecutes, and neighbors, are people. 

i believe that they system gets it right more often than it gets it wrong.  a damaged reputation is sad, but not the same as being put in jail or executed.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2008, 10:42:50 AM »

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/351.php

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/22/news/bar23.php

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/12-19-2002-32547.asp
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2008, 05:06:50 AM »

As I said, I have nothing against the system. It is the people. Right here in Lubbock I have watched the news and seen where a person was picked up in connection of a crime, and the people being interviewed would be spewing all this hate towards this person. A few days later it is revealed, without much fan fair, this person had nothing to do with the crime.

It seems to me that there is a simple solution to this particular problem... If we had a law barring the release of the identity of arrested persons until a verdict is reached, that wouldn't be a problem.

We'd still have the other problems you mentioned in the rest of that post though... but I don't know any good way to solve those problems.
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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2008, 09:58:49 AM »

ahhhh.  secret proceedings??  i think that's been done before.......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2008, 12:24:07 PM »

Not necessarily secret proceedings, they can just treat it the same way they do with child sex crime victims... except in this case, once a verdict has been reached, it would be legal to release the person's identity (reguardless of the verdict, because at that point, the press would be reporting whether or not they were innocent in the same article in which their identity is disclosed.
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2008, 10:00:23 PM »

Read this and then explain to me why these two wastes of human flesh are still breeathing the same air we all do.

Sorry, but there are some crimes that cry out for the death penalty.  There was a huge upswell of support for the death penalty in this state after this happened.  Popular vote would have passed it.  But on a final, procedural tally, Democratic Rep. John Slattery of Peabody switched his vote and killed the measure.  There's a word for him I can't use on this forum. 

We drive over that bridge on 236 up in Maine all the time, and every single time I cry inside for that poor child.
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JP
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2008, 10:12:56 PM »

Read this and then explain to me why these two wastes of human flesh are still breeathing the same air we all do.

Sorry, but there are some crimes that cry out for the death penalty.  There was a huge upswell of support for the death penalty in this state after this happened.  Popular vote would have passed it.  But on a final, procedural tally, Democratic Rep. John Slattery of Peabody switched his vote and killed the measure.  There's a word for him I can't use on this forum. 

We drive over that bridge on 236 up in Maine all the time, and every single time I cry inside for that poor child.


They are still breathing our air because the system has failed the little boy and us and should be held accountable, its a disgrace when there is this much evidence and both don't get the death penalty.

Absolutely disgusting and they're role models on top of that, for any other would be murderers who know that perhaps they can take lives and get away with it as well!!


...JP
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« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2008, 12:21:24 AM »

Here's a bothering quote from that article:

"Jaynes was contacted by Cambridge police on October 2. While he denied knowing Curley, he was arrested on an outstanding warrant and taken into custody."

This bothers me because the police obviously knew where to find Jaynes, had a warrant for his arrest, yet didn't bother to do so until after this had happened.  Had they been diligent in serving warrants, he would have been behind bars and this might not have even happened.  I wonder how many speeding tickets they had the time to write between the time that warrant was issued, and this happened... I guess executing warrants doesn't pay for new squad cars.
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reinbeau
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2008, 06:39:11 AM »

Here's a bothering quote from that article:

"Jaynes was contacted by Cambridge police on October 2. While he denied knowing Curley, he was arrested on an outstanding warrant and taken into custody."

This bothers me because the police obviously knew where to find Jaynes, had a warrant for his arrest, yet didn't bother to do so until after this had happened.  Had they been diligent in serving warrants, he would have been behind bars and this might not have even happened.  I wonder how many speeding tickets they had the time to write between the time that warrant was issued, and this happened... I guess executing warrants doesn't pay for new squad cars.

Keep in mind this is Massachusetts, where the civil rights of criminals take precedence over any rights the victim might have  rolleyes  angry
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« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2008, 09:51:54 AM »

Quote
This bothers me because the police obviously knew where to find Jaynes

you are making an assumption based on a news story.  1st news reports are about the last thing anyone should base their beliefs and assumptions on.  the press no longer cares, if it ever did, about reporting news.  they care about selling product and making a splash.

you do not know from where the info on his location came .  maybe from the neighbor who, up to this point, had not shared the info with police?  maybe the outstanding warrant was from another state and not known until the guy was talked to and run through the computer.  maybe it was for parking tickets and not a high priority?

think around a thing, think through it, and above and below it.  things are very rarely as they seem, and almost never as they are written.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2008, 12:30:51 PM »

Even if it were for parking tickets, had they arrested him a few days, and possibly even a few weeks earlier for it, he might not have committed this crime. 

If the warrant was from another state and they didn't know about it, that says even worse things about the state of our police infrastructure.

I suppose you're right about them not necessarily having had the ability to find him before and only being tipped off by the neighbor.  But I think it's more likely that they just weren't trying before, or at least not trying hard enough. 
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