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Author Topic: One dead of Three  (Read 3442 times)
romduck
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« on: January 01, 2005, 09:49:37 AM »

Of the three hives at my house, I have already lost one. From this I have a question.

It is 50-55 degrees here today and the stronger two hives are buzzing about. I checked the one that has been silent to find all of the bees inside long dead.

This hive was the weakest one, a combined weak hive with a late Summer swarm.

I had medicated all three hives, wrapped them in roof paper and placed a feeder on top. This hive had some of the best drawn comb and a good amount of honey, partially moved over from the neighboring hives to give the weak one a boost.

Virtually everything remains intact as the day I wrapped them up. Dead bees (including drones) litter the bottom board, the scattered brood lie either partially emerged or only partially intact, still in cells.

The only “grouping” of dead bees are a couple of clumps in the center of the upper deep, near the queen, many head-in to the combs. There is plenty of honey a frame away to either side and a feeder directly above.

I assume that there were not enough bees in this weak hive to keep them warm enough to even get to the feeder, medicine or honey.

My question is two fold.

1) What should I do with this hive full of GREAT comb and a good deal of honey (as well as dead bees and brood)?

2) Is there anything else that I should investigate before I do it?

Being as this is only my second year in, I am very nervous about scavenging this hive for the other bees and transferring a parasite or disease to my otherwise healthy hives.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated (as always).

Thanks and, of course, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
 shocked
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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Finman
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2005, 10:16:08 AM »

I think that continuous brooding has killed bees. That will happen if they do not stop larva feeding before winter.

Take honey away. You can use them. You can try if you put brood frames out and birds clean the combs.

But also last evening I read from Australian report, that they tried to raise brood through cold winter in order to get more bees, but nosema killed colonies.

When honey is crystallized, give it for beehive next summer, when hive has 3 boxes. Tear capping away, and put 2-3 frame in the middle of brood frames. Next day you can take frames out, and fill them with water. So crystalls will melt easier. Bees lift the honey to super.

Bee may carry crystalls out as rubbish but water helps them to melt  honey.

Do not give frames when nectar flow is coming in. Bees may recap combs.

Also you can put whole box of uncapped frames into the hive. But next day you must spray crystall combs with water. Fill each frame with water.

This will succeed easily. DO NOT PUT frames outdoors.
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romduck
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2005, 10:36:01 AM »

Thank you. I will clean the boxes and bring them inside.

I was thinking of cleaning the hive up to install a new box of bees in the Spring.

This hive was filled with very confused bees!
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2005, 11:09:36 AM »

Quote from: romduck
Dead bees (including drones) litter the bottom board, the scattered brood lie either partially emerged or only partially intact, still in cells.
:


Strange thing is that you had drones on winter. Normally bees kill them when night temperature goes cold at autumn.

Your brood, were they workers or drones?

If they are drones, the queen has not copulated,

- OR - hive had worker egg layers and that why they were confused.

Somethimes queen disapear during copulating flight or what is the name.

I have had many queenless hives through winter, and they act really normaly in winter ball.  Also I have had new queens which lay eggs all the time untill in December hive dies.

Just now I have 3 frame colony and I out there 6 W terrarium heater to help them through winter. Last year I got 2 frame colony, and it survived well with that heater.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2005, 11:35:08 AM »

Sounds to me like finman nailed it.  They were probably anchored to the brood and couldn't get to the stores.  Does seem odd that they would still have brood in December in Connecticut.  Especially the drones.  Those buggers should have been gone long ago.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2005, 12:02:43 PM »

Yesterday here in Michigan it was 56F and I had bees flying. They were even doing the orientation flight at all the hives. Once that was over they were just coming anf going. Whats the point you ask? There were drones in the bunch. Not from just one hive mind you but a couple from each hive. I watched them for a long time to see if I could figure out just how many drones there were in a hive, figured not more that 4 nor less then 2. I read some place where all the drones are not kicked out in the fall. Some are allowed to stay just in case they are needed.

 Smiley I didn't pull any frames to see if I had brood but I think not or very little if there was any.
 Cheesy Al
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Jay
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2005, 12:06:40 PM »

Quote from: Finman

- OR - hive had worker egg layers and that why they were confused.

Somethimes queen disapear during copulating flight or what is the name.



This makes the most sense to me Finnman. Confusing to see drones this late in the season in New England unless the queen was gone and laying workers took over. Since laying workers can only lay drone, then the hive is doomed with no workers  even to bring up the drone brood.

Start again in the spring as Finnman says.
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romduck
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2005, 02:22:30 PM »

Actually, all three hives kept drones late this year.

When I checked the brood they were clearly workers. Also, I found the queen up top.

Strange indeed.
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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romduck
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2005, 03:32:26 PM »

OK, then the next question is...

Now that I have cleaned out the rest of the hive, what can I do with the frames that have remaining immature or capped brood still. I cannot remove them completely and, of course, they will grow mold if they sit in the frames in my basement shop.

Any thoughts? Do I have to get rid of the frames completely?
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2005, 04:38:18 PM »

How about deep freeze brood until ready to use. Then the bees will clean them out and won't get all moldy.
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Finman
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2005, 04:50:16 PM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
How about deep freeze brood until ready to use. Then the bees will clean them out and won't get all moldy.


It is vain to take space from freezer.

You can also cut nicely the part ob broods away (little colony). Do not violate wires.

An then you put in the hole piece of foundation and bees repair the frame next summer.

I you keep brood in the combs, they spoil combs.  If birds find brood, it takes  one day and they are clean.

This is eager to clean combs

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romduck
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2005, 09:16:03 PM »

Thanks Finman. I'll give it a try here. I'll leave those frames out. If they get clean then I can use them later.
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Bruce Hanson
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2005, 06:33:36 PM »

Bees are very good house cleaners,don't throw away a good frame because of a little dead brood or mold.As long as the hive did not die of foul brood,AFB or EFB.your safe to use them in the spring.Bees will clean out all dead brood and the queen will be laying in a matter of days.
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Finman
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2005, 02:32:36 AM »

Quote from: Bruce Hanson
Bees are very good house cleaners,don't throw away a good frame because of a little dead brood or mold.As long as the hive did not die of foul brood,AFB or EFB.your safe to use them in the spring.Bees will clean out all dead brood and the queen will be laying in a matter of days.


Bees will do cleaning work, but if brood are whole winter in combs, they may be like rotten slim at next summer, and it is difficult to get clean that comb.  I have seen many times, that bees do not get their combs clean and new larvas will be sick.
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Bruce Hanson
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2005, 10:33:40 AM »

If your brood is rotten and slimy it sounds like you have a problem with FOUL BROOD.You also say the larva becomes sick after they are raised in your cleaned out combs ,one more sign that tells me you have a problem.One more sign is smell,does your dead brood have a bad rotten smell.                   Bee Larva will not get sick from cleaned out comb that the bees either were chilled or starved to death. I reuse my dead outs every year just brush off any dead bees that might be on the outside of the comb.
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