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Author Topic: Prescription-only for Bee's in Europe??  (Read 6720 times)
TwT
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« on: December 31, 2004, 10:12:39 PM »

Thursday, December 09, 2004
Beekeepers urged to lobby European Commission
Opposition is growing to the European Commission's plans to make bee medicines prescription-only and therefore available only through vets.

Because bees are classed as food-producing animals, they are falling within the remit of a new European Directive that requires all medical treatments for food-producing animals to be administered or at least monitored by vets.

Beekeepers fear that this added layer in the medicines chain will significantly increase treatment prices, discourage use of approved products, and result in a lot more bee deaths. Irony of ironies, the legislation is likely to lead to more contamination of honey because some beekeepers may resort to unapproved treatments. To top it all vets (in the UK at least) have no formal training or professional knowledge of honeybees.

In short, the new legislation seems crazy and counter-productive. Beekeepers are amused by the idea of vets coming to see their bees to prescribe treatments. “You want to see all the bees? Let me round them up.” Or do beekeepers take a hive to the vets? “What do you have in your pet carrier?”

Beekeepers across the EU are being encouraged to lobby for an exemption of honeybees from the legislation and are being urged to contact the relevant agency in their European Union Member State. Already the agency in the UK -- the VMD (Veterinary Medicines Directorate) -- is committed to pushing for the honeybee exemption.

The new legislation is also causing some consternation amongst those who deal with what are affectionately known as “non-food chain horses”.
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2005, 06:26:13 AM »

That's ridiculous
Typically farmers medicate almost all crops and livestock on their own. Most vets never treat "food chain animals"
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2005, 06:45:03 AM »

The article is about some other country. But just wait, sooner or later "THEY" will figure out how to legislate it here.
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2005, 09:07:40 AM »

Quote from: TwT
Thursday, December 09, 2004
Beekeepers urged to lobby European Commission
Opposition is growing to the European Commission's plans to make bee medicines prescription-only and therefore available only through vets.


What is fact and what is urban story?

What is medicine? Are treatment chemicals medicines?
There is no reason to give law, which cannot be audited, we say in Finland.

In Finland only vet can prescipt antibiot. But in European Union there is no limits for antibiots and no sign is allowed in honey. However people use antibiots and the source can be another animimal's receipt.

EU is wide. There are many styles to live.

Also there is a gang which invent all kind of stupid news and deliver them for news. Brittish especially practises this kind of humour.

It is EU now but it does not disturb beekeeper, if he does not want EU's support money for his hives.  Beeling is a little factor in EU.
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People himself are grazy. My wife obeyed me that I must call vet to our summer cottage because there was wild cat with it's kids. Why I asked. Vet must catch the cat and kill it. I said that I can do it and I break it's neck. - That was not possible to my wife and can stayed on yard.

Then we heard that  our  nabour has 52 cat in his house  -- without EU persimmission..... hehe heh wink
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asleitch
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2005, 12:40:58 PM »

Quote from: BigRog
That's ridiculous
Typically farmers medicate almost all crops and livestock on their own. Most vets never treat "food chain animals"


Correct, and their is a campaign already underway in England to stop such a stupid piece of legislation. Even the Bee Inspectors cannot prescribe things, even if they find infected colonies.

Like it says, no Vets have any formal training for beekeeping or identification of disease at all (in the UK at least). You won't even be able to purchase varroa treatments (Apistan, Apiguard etc) without the vet inspecting your bees.

Adam

[Actually, if this goes through, it going to be funny, can you imagine sitting in the vets surgery with a beehive?
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2005, 01:16:14 PM »

i read it here


http://www.vita-europe.com/downloads/newsletter2.pdf
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2005, 02:37:38 PM »

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2004/l_136/l_13620040430en00580084.pdf

I read quickly some  parts from  this EU directive. It concers medicinal product industry, the licence to sell medicine, and many kinds of matter. I did not found any animal name, not any medicin and not such a thing, that it is ridigulous letter handle.

We have in EU new Eastern European countries, which "tru life" is not like law says. Estonian have passed their electrical counters and water counters. They do not have money for normal life.

Also directives command to follow equal methods, that no country can take commercial advantage against others with their own regulations.

In Finland people tell huge stories how EU is stupid. They are stories that no one can coltrol such things they tell.   EU has brought Middle European principles into use. -- Some said that EU obey that you cannot go to the forest any more,  heheheheh. Who has time to follow every person in Finland? And for what reason? heheheheh

You must remember that EU was made for commercial fight against USA and Asia mighty ecomic power.  It is not organisation which main duty is to copulate with comma.

I think that Brittish are again inventing their Urban Legends. Brittish humour, BUUU


2. Veterinary medicinal product:
(a) any substance or combination of substances
presented as having properties for treating or
preventing disease in animals; or
(b) any substance or combination of substances
which may be used in or administered to
animals with a view either to restoring,
correcting or modifying physiological
functions by exerting a pharmacological,
immunological or metabolic action, or to
making a medical diagnosis.’;
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2005, 03:51:36 PM »

Quote from: Finman
I think that Brittish are again inventing their Urban Legends. Brittish humour, BUUU


Now Finman, if you wish for further details of the campaign I mentioned, it is in "Beecraft, Jan 2005, Volume 87". On the first page, Claire Waring in her editorial makes specific mention of this, and directs readers to write and complain to:

European Commission
Enterprise DG
Documentation Centre Office: SC 15 00/51
B-1049 Brussels
Belgium.

Claire Waring by the way, is not only the editor but the General Secretary of the British Beekeepers Assocation.

The directive in question is EC 2004/28/EC and is due to come into effect on October 2005. To quote "The new directive applies to all food-producing animals, of which the honey bee is deemed to be one. There are to be no exceptions".....

To go on.... "The new directive will be policed in the UK by the Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD)".....

I'll quote some more from the VITA website....

Quote

"Vita (Europe)Ltd
NEWS MITE
EC wants bees to be treated by The European Commission plans to make honeybee medications available only on prescription and therefore available only through vets.This new Directive is due to come into force in October 2005,but if the bee lobby acts now it may be possible to obtain an exemption for honeybees.

The plans for honeybee medications to be prescription-only are part of a new EC Directive (EC 2004/28/EC)which will apply to medicines for all food-producing animals. No exceptions have been made or planned,but beekeepers have been so alarmed at the new legislation that lobbying for an exemption for honeybees has begun.

Max Watkins,Techical Director of Vita-Europe said “This legislation could be
disastrous for beekeeping,honey production and agricultural pollination in Europe. It will lead to an increase in treatment costs,encourage the use of unapproved products and result in the loss of bee colonies across Europe.”
Dr Watkins continued:“Every beekeeping body I have spoken to opposes the legislation.It is vital that beekeepers in every European Union Member State lobby their relevant government authority to secure an exemption for honeybees from this legislation.”

Why Directive 2004/28/EC is bad for beekeeping
Vets in most European countries have little knowledge or experience of
honeybees.Will beekeepers take hives to vets to obtain prescriptions,or call vets to attend their apiaries? The involvement of any other agency in dispensing bee treatments will increase costs of treatment which in turn will discourage the use of approved products and encourage the use of unapproved alternatives that can be unreliable and even dangerous. Existing approved honeybee treatments have been shown to offer no significant risk to humans.The need for prescriptions is therefore totally irrelevant. Anything that interferes with or inhibits honeybee treatment will be disastrous for the survival of bees,honey production and the pollination of agricultural crops and native flora.

I'm sure you will know already of the address that Finnish beekeepers should be writing to to express their concerns, but I'll include it below seen as you seem to think this is an "URBAN LEGEND"

National Agency for Medicines
Mannerheimintie 166
FIN-00301 Helsinki
Tel +358 9 47 334 1

This is something that requires EC wide protests from Beekeepers. I trust you will research further, and that the Finnish Beekeepers Assocation is taking a proactive stance with your national government ministry of agriculture, who in turn are protesting to the EC.

If you wish for further pointers about the changes see here:

Quote
The origin of Directive 2004/28/EC The Review of the European legislation on veterinary medicinal products (Review 2001)concluded on 30 April 2004 with the publication of an amending Directive (2004/28/EC)and a new EU Regulation (No 726/2004).



Hope thats of interest.

Adam
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2005, 04:02:26 PM »

And Finman the bit of interest is this:

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2004/l_136/l_13620040430en00580084.pdf

Quote
The requirement that a veterinary medicinal product may only be
dispensed after a veterinary prescription has been made out should,as a general principle,be extended to all medicinal products for food-producing animals. However,it should be possible to grant exemptions, where appropriate.


It is this exemption we need to fight for.

Quote
Member States shall bring into force the laws,regulations and
administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive by 30 October 2005 at the latest.


Adam
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2005, 04:28:00 PM »

Quote from: asleitch

It is this exemption we need to fight for.

Adam


I cannot take this so serious that I start to fight.  I keep bees, and it is impossible, I  break first law and if it does not help, I stop beekeeping. This is just a hobby.

I cannot see bogey in this issue. This was not special "beekeeping law".

I think that we are following allready that order.

Officially our Beekeeping Association does not accept to use antibiots for bees, but our veterinary law says that vet must write medicin if bees are sick.   One vet was just  in the city court when he did not subscriped the medicin.

I fight for that, that no one stupid old guy without knowledge starts to write his own laws for others. They wrote a note and sended it to all beekeepers, but I asked in internet, who are the experts behind the letter, and how export ministry can control the veterinary ministry; what is the competence. It was just populism. It happened last year when I wrote that I use terramycin.

The law do not ban to use terramycin , but  you cannot have  signs in your honey.  The signs go away after 3 moths, and summer is not enough for that.
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2005, 04:34:12 PM »

Not having read all of the links, does it just say "food producing animals"  or is "honeybee" actually mentioned. I'm wondering how an insect is considered an animal.
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2005, 10:26:21 PM »

I was wondering the same thing!! Insect,  not animal!
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2005, 11:11:19 PM »

the way i read it is that honeybees fall under agricutural like farm animals and there are trying to pass a law to make beekeepers treat there  bee's only by precription medications, sounds like someone is in someone elses pocket or trying to get in!  wink  its all in that address i posted up top.
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2005, 06:55:23 AM »

OK TWT,

 The link you posted is, or looks to me, like a beekeeper's newsletter. On the other hand asleitch posted a link to some long drawn out legal looking paper, which I'll admit I didn't sit down and read word for word. Short attention span I guess. I tend to drift off to other remote parts of my brain and drift around just a wandering..... OH OK anyway ... I saw stuff about animals, as in four legs, and birds and fish and eggs and milk but I didn't see anything about insects or honey or honeybee in the legal looking paper.

But I am not from that country across the great waters and I don't know how they interpret things. Perhaps a bee is food producing animal.
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2005, 07:37:28 AM »

ok jerry, my bad, i read asleitch post, well most of it , i seen where it said any species  a few time but i see that it talks about anything dealing with food sold in markets or companys or to member states. it is intended for any food producing animal (species) , they regulate bee's like our FDA does when selling honey to stores or companys in the USA, but instead of just those that sell honey, they don't say what animals are covered in that address asleitch wrote but all it say's in food producing animals so i guest they can do what they want when it comes to food producers, it looks like they are trying to make everyone be covered under this new law, that must be where we go our law writers, man them people talk in all kinds of circles just like ours.
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2005, 08:35:05 AM »

I am most possibly the one in the wrong as I said I didn't read everything word for word and I didn't see spiecies. I believe you that it is there. I'm just going for the aurguments sake.

Like so many people misinterpreted stuff about Y2K, and had everything going down. I'm no genious on computer chips and stuff, but I didn't understabd what the date had to do with getting fuel into an engine and a spark to the plugs.

Yes honey is a food item but bees are insects. There are other insects that are food items. Not sure how many of them are eaten by the Europian population, nor do I know if there are farms that raise such critters and sometimes need to treat them for pest. "Get you freash grubs here. No chemical additives" But if there were such a duck would it fall into the same catigory as food animals?
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2005, 08:53:07 AM »

there aint no telling jerry but if the goverment can make a dollar on it , they will try anything I believe. wink
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2005, 09:04:04 AM »

I start waiting, when police comes to my door. For a while, I invent explanations...

In Finland we need not to pay bonus for vets, if medicine is for productive animals.
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2005, 05:13:45 PM »

I think the fact our National Beekeeping Assocation is involved with high level talks, is sufficient evidence that bees are covered by the new legislation. Our national assocation has asked us to write and complain, and they will have taken legal advice, and talked to out national state agriculture department before arriving at this view.

Finman, it is not just antibiotics, it is all medication applied to bees at all, that means Varroa medicines as well.

Adam
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