wild bees

[bbqbee]

howdy... I have not posted in a long while but I do have a question for you all.

2 weeks ago I captured a swarm and they are doing great. my ? is this - I know that the bees came from a large old cottonwood tree that has produced swarms for years. a commercial bkpr always gets the call to get them but they are still in california so she had me go and get them.

#1 the bees are small compared to the kona bees  I have set up next to them
#2 the bees are 50% black the queen is almost all black
#3 they are a little touchy but settling down nicely

My thoughts ...   They have survived a long time in this tree
                       There are few wild bees here in western montana left
                        they are surrounded by commercial bees in the summer
                        they must be mite resistant

what do you guys think

I think I would like to raise some queens from them!!!

                       

[Jerrymac]

Um... What is the question?

Most long time survivor bees are black and they are smaller because they have not been on artificially larger celled man made foundation/comb. Keep them as close to natural as you can and they will do great without chemicals.

[bbqbee]

no real question... just wanted some thoughts - suggestions

thank you

[Robo]

I would keep them on natural comb or HSC and not treat them.   I've had good luck with ferals on HSC and no treatment.   If they do well and you like them,  make some queens from her.

[Shawn]

They had natural size comb, small cell. I believe Russians are more black than the Itilians but I only have Itilians.

[doak]

I think the Black German bee run's a little small and on the dark side.
Vader/doak

[qa33010]

     My ferals are all colors and the queens vary.  I use starter strips only so they can build what they need.  If I get the land I want/need I plan on using ferals for queen production, when I learn how.  I don't treat and if they don't survive, they don't survive.  So far, three years, I have had two hives abscond and two starve with stores they couldn't get to.  I picked up three swarms, one of which didn't make it and a cutout that the land owner wants me to get later this summer, when the aster/goldsenrod blooms.

   Now that I've bragged about the hives I have to your request.  I would definitely look at raising queens from them if they were mine.  The little dinky mean black bees that I haven't seen in numbers for years (small swarm two years ago in backyard but they left).  If you think it's necessary, you can always breed for a more gentle line.  My Russians are normally black and a silver though I do have one that came with a little gold in it and are still that way.  If that tree has never been without a hive in the past IMHO 5 years you definitely have survivor stock to work with.  I would try hard to keep new blood coming in from other survivor or hygenic stock.  That's my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[SgtMaj]

My only thought is that they aren't mite resistant, but since they are building natural comb which is much smaller than the large commercial size, that gives them enough of an advantage in the struggle against varroa to allow them to live just fine.  Don't know about tracheal mites... they may have simply been lucky there.

[Michael Bush]

>what do you guys think

They sound like the typical feral survivors I'm finding.  Small, because of natural cell size, and darker seems to be what is surviving.

>I think I would like to raise some queens from them!!!

I would.

[KONASDAD]

my ferals are smaller and darker too. They have mites just like my italians so far. I have maintained small cell and look forward to seeing them survive so i can breed form them. the ferals also fly earlier in the day, in worse weather and are very gentle. they do not make as much honey and collect lots more pollen as well. Just a few observations. They dont propolize as much either so far, but fall is around corner.

[kathyp]

i have wondered if the act of swarming helps control the mites in the hives.  the brood cycle is broken in the swarm, and perhaps in the original hive if all that is left is swarm cells.  i have never seen a report on the idea.

[KONASDAD]

i have wondered if the act of swarming helps control the mites in the hives.  the brood cycle is broken in the swarm, and perhaps in the original hive if all that is left is swarm cells.  i have never seen a report on the idea.

I agree w/ this observation. In both the swarm, and in what remains behind, their brood cycles are broken. Perhaps swarming can be considered a hygenic behaviour too. Undesireable by the beekeeper, maybe helpful to the bees.

[deejaycee]

i have wondered if the act of swarming helps control the mites in the hives.  the brood cycle is broken in the swarm, and perhaps in the original hive if all that is left is swarm cells.  i have never seen a report on the idea.

I agree w/ this observation. In both the swarm, and in what remains behind, their brood cycles are broken. Perhaps swarming can be considered a hygenic behaviour too. Undesireable by the beekeeper, maybe helpful to the bees.

I also concur.  In fact swarming is a recognised and effective response to high colony mite load in one of the tropical species of bees.. Can't recall if it is apis cerana or apis dorsata though.