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Author Topic: many opened queen cells( on their sides) and one capped queen cell  (Read 1112 times)
we BEE crawson
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« on: June 18, 2008, 03:42:20 PM »

Well i now know that the hive is queenless or was....  but why would there be many queeen cells opened on their sides and one left capped.  If a new queen has emerged would she not just take care of all the remaining queen cells??  as in ...opening on the side and stinging the larva to rid the hive of more queens.  I thought I had a swarming issue 9 days or more ago when i went into the hive and saw very few eggs and queen cells which I broke open because of their location on the bottom of frames. However durring  my next inspection i found open queen cells  but open from the side I thought it was an emerged queen  untill  doing reserch i found that a new queen will distroy all other cells in the hive  by opening the cell on its side and stinging .  Today I found more cells that have been opened on their sides but one left alone.( first time i have seen capped cell that didnt get distroyed by me )  What I want to know is does this sound like  a new queen in the hive or is the one capped cell going to be the queen?  If it sounds like their is already a queen running around then i will wait a bit but if the hive is going to rely on the one capped cell I might go and order a queen and put the one cell into a nuc so if this happens again i will have a backup queen on hand.  Waiting for the queen to emerge and then mate will put this hive back and i fear that i put it back by breaking apart q cells two weeks in a row.  There are no eggs and very little brood left in the hive the bee numbers are up there.  I  want to avod a laying worker so i may add some open brood from another hive while i figure this deal out.  I think ther is a question in all that... Smiley   Also does any one know where to get a queen in New england?  The less mail time the better I think!!??   Thanks for reading my post I always ramble and still dont feel i am typing it down  right.  but i do need the input!!!
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 11:45:14 PM »

Well i now know that the hive is queenless or was....  but why would there be many queeen cells opened on their sides and one left capped. 

Cells eaten out on the side indicates a queen hatched and killed the queens in the other queen cells.  Workers removing unsatisfactory queen candidates will usually open the top to remove the pupae.  When a queen still in the cell has been killed by stinging by another queen the bees eat out the side and remove the queen that way.  The capped cell left indicates that it wasn't capped at the time the 1st queen hatched--new queens will sting capped queen cells but not uncapped ones so an after swarm is possible.

Quote
If a new queen has emerged would she not just take care of all the remaining queen cells??  as in ...opening on the side and stinging the larva to rid the hive of more queens. 

Usually but as I stated they won't take care of uncapped cells so that larvae survived the bees capped it and the new queen will probably swarm about the time she should start to lay.  This delay will cause the queen in the afterswarm to delay even further delay laying eggs and sometimes they never do.

Quote
I thought I had a swarming issue 9 days or more ago when i went into the hive and saw very few eggs and queen cells which I broke open because of their location on the bottom of frames.However durring  my next inspection i found open queen cells  but open from the side I thought it was an emerged queen  untill  doing reserch i found that a new queen will distroy all other cells in the hive  by opening the cell on its side and stinging. 

Destroying queen cells will almost insure the hive will go queenless.  The old queen can swarm before the replacement queen cells are even capped, and do swarm within a day or 2 of capping the cells.  Removing capped cells renders the hive queenless because the old queen has already left the hive.

Quote
Today I found more cells that have been opened on their sides but one left alone.( first time i have seen capped cell that didnt get distroyed by me )  What I want to know is does this sound like  a new queen in the hive or is the one capped cell going to be the queen?

Sounds like a new queen that hasn't started to lay and a new queen which will hatch forcing the newly mated queen to swarm (aka afterswarm)

Quote
  If it sounds like their is already a queen running around then i will wait a bit but if the hive is going to rely on the one capped cell I might go and order a queen and put the one cell into a nuc so if this happens again i will have a backup queen on hand.  Waiting for the queen to emerge and then mate will put this hive back and i fear that i put it back by breaking apart q cells two weeks in a row. 

It goes like this, the bees for a number of reasons decide to swarm so they make queen cells.  Once the larvae is at the stage to hatch into pupae the cells are capped--a day or 2 either way from capping the old queen will most likely swarm.  If the queen cells are destroyed the bees will build more cells around eggs that have just hatched into larvae.  If a queen cells is missed she may hatch before the other queen cells are capped, creating an afterswarm situation.  The more you monkey with queen cells the more likely you'll have afterswarms.  If you notice capped queen cells on more than 1 frame the best thing to do is a split.  You then end up with 2 laying queens, or, if you like, an insurance policy queen.

Quote
There are no eggs and very little brood left in the hive the bee numbers are up there.  I  want to avod a laying worker so i may add some open brood from another hive while i figure this deal out.  I think ther is a question in all that... Smiley   Also does any one know where to get a queen in New england?  The less mail time the better I think!!??   Thanks for reading my post I always ramble and still dont feel i am typing it down  right.  but i do need the input!!!

When a hive swarms most of the bees that go with the swarm are between 1-3 weeks old--those in various stages of nurse duty.  The reason is the queen needs the younger bees so the swarm lives long enough to draw comb, collect some stores, and let the queen lay eggs to replace the bees that will die.
The older bees, foragers, remain with the hive--most were out working when the swarm occurred anyway.  The remainder of the bees are from the hatching brood the old queen laid before she stopped laying and swarmed.  You will have about 14-20 days of no visible brood in the hive while the new queen mates and starts to lay.
Many new beeks jump to the conclusion that their hive is queenless at that point.  If they didn't destroy queen cells it is just a break in brood rearing.  If they destroyed queen cells, chances are more likely the hive is now queenless. To find out, Put in a frame of brood w/eggs from another hive and see what happens, if nothing, the new queen was probably just delayed in beginning to lay eggs, if you see queen cells then the hive was queenless and it will soon be queenright.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
we BEE crawson
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 08:44:31 AM »

thank you Brian,   I waited days for a response,  I  have cooled down and I am going to put a frame of fresh egg and brood it the hive and watch what happens.  I have a feeling that there is a virgin Q in the hive  it has been cool and rainy for over a week so if the q wanted to mate she has not been able to.  thanks again!!!!!
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Gware
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 09:18:03 AM »

what Brian said is exactly what happened to me. I thought my hive was queenless because of brood absent. My hive did swarm and I saw no brood after that. I of course panic'ed and called other keepers. I even tried putting brood in so they could raise a queen. I could not find a queen either in two hives that swarmed. I decided to wait and see. No queen cells were started and I saw new eggs about 2 weeks after all this. I inspected again and I saw my queens!! I am so excited about them. I have decided to not ever destroy any queen cells after this. I never did destroy any but I see alot of people worry about queenless alot. I like my bees temperment so I will let them raise there own and not replace it with something in the mail that I really dont know how they acted.
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golddust-twins
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 08:19:48 PM »

Thanks Brian,  there is just so much to know and understand.

Corinne
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