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Author Topic: Will the split hive, open mated, be more aggressive than the original?  (Read 2305 times)
twb
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« on: May 07, 2008, 04:27:15 PM »

I inherited some hives with dark (I'll guess Russian) queens.  The bees fly in cool weather and are building up fast.  Queens are laying a good pattern.  But, the bees are nervous on the comb and sometimes get pretty "stingy" if I try to go bare handed, which I prefer.

I had to split them, and they have capped queen cells now but my friend warns me the new bees will be more aggressive than the originals.  Is that generally true?  It is early enough to order a few queens but I'd rather not.
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"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones."  Proverbs 16:24

Sincerely,
TWB
mark
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 05:28:13 PM »

it all depends on what they cross with.  if your friend works russians and has the experience go with his advice.  i've had carnies get hot the 2nd supercedure, italians are no trouble 'til the 3rd around here.
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Sean Kelly
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 05:41:06 PM »

When I split my italians last year the queenless hive was much more "nervous" acting compared to the queenright hive.  I just left them alone for several weeks and let them do their thing.  I figured if they were going to make a new queen and she was to breed, they would need a little privacy.  Turned out perfectly!

Sean Kelly
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 10:09:25 PM »

Whether you buy your queens or raise your own, it's always a crap shoot.  You get what you get.  You can only control the mother.
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Michael Bush
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twb
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 07:26:48 PM »

Today I opened two of the queenless splits and scraped off queen cells and gave each a frame of eggs etc. from an Italian hive.  The queenless hives were really not pleased at all to have me there again so soon shocked.  Can I give them 7 to 10 days off now?  Or should I go in again in 3 or 4 days to make sure they have started new queen cells on the Italian frame? 
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"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones."  Proverbs 16:24

Sincerely,
TWB
wayseer
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2008, 05:09:27 AM »

My own policy is to get rid of aggressive hives - who needs the pain.  When I split hives I reQ immediately.  At the moment I have a rather agressive hive and have Qs on order.  I'll split the hive and move one to another location and reQ.  If I cannot find the old Q I'll wait a couple of days to see where Q cells might start.  Having been split there is not so many ill tempered bees to deal with.  Remember, you are still dealing with the old Q's progeny and it will be at least three weeks before new brood emerge after you ReQ.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 08:43:00 AM »

I'd recommend a quick check to see that they are in fact starting a queen cell (s) (and try without moving that frame so as not to wreck any cells) and then leave them for a few weeks, then check for eggs.

rick
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Rick
twb
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 10:07:32 PM »

Thanks all for your replies.  My friend just called and his queens arrived and he has some extras.  They are Russian but he likes them as long as they do not supersede on him.  I installed one tonight and could not find the queen in the other hive in an out yard Sad.  The bees were all over me, the hive tool etc, you know the drill.  I am quite discouraged right now but tomorrow will be better.  I will install into three hives at home tomorrow.  That still leaves me two nasty ones and I already have more hives than I wanted for this season.  Right now beekeeping isn't fun but that makes the good times better I guess. Smiley
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"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones."  Proverbs 16:24

Sincerely,
TWB
twb
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 09:12:26 PM »

Sorry to bring back an old post, but I sounded a bit down then and I just wanted to end on a better note.  Four of the hot hives have accepted introduced queens and the other two have made their own from a frame of Italian eggs I gave each.  Hopefully they will mate well and have gentle offspring and I can once again drop the gloves.  Thanks for all the help around here.
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"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones."  Proverbs 16:24

Sincerely,
TWB
wayseer
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 08:58:32 PM »

Know how you feel - it all gets us down at times.  The thing I've found with dealing with any livestock generally is that they look after themselves pretty well.  Keep the brood warm and clean and they'll do the rest.  Good luck with it all.
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Sir Stungalot
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 12:28:26 AM »

Now and again I get a rather "warm" hive- not evil, just to testy for me to want to mess with.  Once I am sure it is a genetic issue (same reaction no matter what I do and, most important, chasing behavior) I simply squash the Queen. I let them raise a new one.  If, in a couple months and a couple brood cycles later the hive is still not to my liking...El Squasho again. I have never had a 3rd generation Queen be as bad as her Grandmother. Infact, usually the new Queen produces good, calm bees, same as the rest in the apiary. I always assume there are more good genetics than bad floating around.
I am not that quick to buy new Queens, I have never noticed them to be any better than the ones my own hives produce. 
I buy new Queens simply for new blood. This year it was Cordovans- lost most to a awfull SHB attack but the ones that have hung in there sure are pretty bees.
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