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Author Topic: Queen eviction  (Read 3373 times)
GaryMinckler
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« on: June 05, 2008, 07:34:00 PM »

Today I watched bees drag a clipped and marked queen to the entrance and toss her off the edge.  Would they do this if there was no other queen in the colony? 
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Moonshae
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 09:28:39 PM »

How long ago did you introduce her? It's possible they rejected her, but if it's been some time, there's probably another queen in the hive.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 10:21:41 PM »

This was a package installed on May 1st.  I was surprised to see them take her out because the hive looks good with capped brood and larva.  I'm going to look tomorrow for a queen and am thinking about combining with another package installed same day if there is none. Thanks!
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johnnybigfish
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 10:25:26 PM »

Hmmm.
 I'm assuming she was dead. But, for verification purposes,.....Was she?
If she was still alive, and it was me, i'd stick her in another box with bees and see what happens.
your friend,
john
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doak
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 10:28:12 PM »

You may have queen cells instead of a new queen if they are just putting her out.
I wouldn't think they would rid her with out another on the way and they wouldn't wait till the new queen hatched.
Be careful not to be too rough, start from the outside frames.
good luck. Hope you find what you and the bees need.
doak
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 10:34:48 PM »

She wasn't dead but wasn't very healthy either. Ipicked her off the ground once and set her at the entrance...bees surrounded her for a few minutes then dragged her out again
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 10:37:30 PM »

That is one thing that did surprise me... no queen cells. 
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 11:11:27 PM »

That is one thing that did surprise me... no queen cells. 

Recheck for queen cells before you combine.  If the queen failed suddenly the workers will eject her and then build emergency queen cells wherever they find viable eggs.  You will probably find queen cells started at every level of the frame at some point within the brood chamber. 
If you conbine and they've started queen cells you'll have a swarm soon. 
A sudden queen failure with dead or ejected queen is one more reason why you should never destroy queen cells.  Use the ones you find to your advantage by starting nucs--you can always recombine and then you can choose the most prolific or gentlest queen from the nucs.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 11:26:38 PM »

Will be looking for: a) queen  b) eggs and c) queen cells.  Hopefully any one of those three but would really love to find an active queen.  Thanks all...
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DaveKow
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 03:26:08 AM »

How long prior to them tossing her out, was an inspection done?  I am new to all of this and wondering if she could have gotten injured during inspection. 

Sorry for  your loss, and keep us posted.

Dave
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 04:34:33 AM »

It had been 12 days since last inspection.  Will look real hard for eggs tomorrow to determine if she was healthy in the last few days.  I am also a novice and am having difficulty even seeing eggs.  Taking magnifying glass from work to get a better look.  Will let everyone know how this turns out  Thanks everyone.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 03:20:28 PM »

Did a thorough inspection today... still no queen sighting even though I realize there may be one there.  Several queen cells.  Gonna let them do what bees do rather than intervene.  Colony looks good at 5 weeks.  5 colonies going now.  2 overwintered and 3 packages installed May 1st... the one mentioned here, one doing very good, and one very poor... only a fraction of drawn comb and brood there should be.  Another queen problem...she's there but not doing much.
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derrick1p1
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 03:24:54 PM »

I agree with you that you should just leave them to do take care of themselves.  They know what their doing.  Seems that every book I read says to remove queen cells.....ie.queen cells=bad.  I now know after this season that this does not always hold true and can lead to a queenless colony.

Best of luck!
Derrick
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Grant11
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 04:49:21 AM »

I found the same thing while watching from a window in my house. Notice a newly swarmed hive allot of bees on the outside like they were going to swarm the next day about a base ball size group of bees were on the ground and queen with no wings but was alive on the ground with them.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 06:27:38 AM »

Grant11    Were they rejecting your queen?  How did you fix it?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 11:24:04 AM »

Odds are there's a virgin queen there already.  They wouldn't dispose of her until the virgin emerged.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#nobroodnoqueen
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Grant11
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 06:27:48 PM »

Gary

It wasnt a big swarm when I boxed them up so I did not take a chance that a queen was in there  added  them to another hive . Hopefully it will work out.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 04:34:25 PM »

This package of bees just swarmed about 10 minutes ago,  I knew something was going on and went inside to get camera, when I returned 5 minutes later they were clustering in a tree nearby about 25 feet in the air.  No way to retrieve them.  Is this colony lost now?
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derrick1p1
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 04:56:55 PM »

Do you mean the remaining colony/hive.  Maybe not.  What are the numbers like.  Does it have a queen(most likely a virgin) or at least queen cells.  Brood?  Depends on a number of things.  But most likely, the originally colony goes on after a swarm.  The swarm find a new home.  It's how they procreate the species.

As for a hive rejecting a fertile queen and then swarming...I'm confused.  Anyone else here understand what may have happened/sequence of events here?  Normally, the old queen leaves with the swarm after swarm cells are capped. 

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I won't let grass grow under my feet, there will be plenty of time to push up daisies.
GaryMinckler
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2008, 05:28:51 PM »

I'm confused too.  Just took a quick look inside the beehive.  Only 5-6 frames of drawn foundation, leaving lots of room.  When I saw all the activity on the outside I quickly added a medium super thinking "swarm" and wanted to create space quickly.  After the swarm looked inside and saw a queen walking around an empty frame of the new super.  Trying to think of any way to catch these bees.
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GaryMinckler
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 09:20:41 PM »

June 5th...5 week old package rejects a clipped and marked queen.  June 18th...same colony swarms, taking huge number of bees with it.  I don't get it. 
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 12:06:14 AM »

June 5th...5 week old package rejects a clipped and marked queen.  June 18th...same colony swarms, taking huge number of bees with it.  I don't get it. 

The hive had unmarked queen(s)--probably virgin--in with the workers so the caged queen that came with the package was rejected.  Once the virgin queens mated the presence of multiple queens was noted and 1 swarmed.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
GaryMinckler
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 10:30:21 AM »

I thought with a multiple queen situation they would fight it out until only one was left.  Update on swarm: 44 hours now and swarm is still in tree right near hives although much smaller.  I actually thought I saw bees flying from swarm back into hive last night.  (robbing?)
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derrick1p1
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2008, 01:08:11 PM »

I doubt bees from a swarm would rob from the hive.  The gorged themselves before leaving the hive, so I would think they may be just 'going back home'? 

Can you get to the swarm and capture it?  If not, can you set up a swarm trap.  There are alot of post regarding swarm traps if you do a search on it.

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I won't let grass grow under my feet, there will be plenty of time to push up daisies.
GaryMinckler
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2008, 03:55:01 PM »

Swarm is very high... actually thought about cutting the tree down and notching it in such a way to make it fall over slowly.  Am looking into swarm traps now for future use.
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