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Author Topic: A question about foundationless frames?  (Read 3971 times)
and180
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« on: July 12, 2008, 04:11:07 PM »

I might have a problem with my foundationless frames. Is it normal for the comb from each frame to be interconnected to each other?
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annette
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 10:50:55 PM »

I started my new package on foundationless starter strips this May and in the first brood super I had placed a couple of drawn out wax combs to give the bees a guide to follow. Well it worked because they drew out all the comb perfectly straight in the bottom brood super. Well stupid me, When it came time to add another brood super, I forgot to add those few frames and I ended up giving them all foundationless frames.  Well they made a mess drawing out the combs into the next frames.

They ended up filling these combs with honey, and when I tried to pry them apart, well a big mess. I finally ended up cutting out the worst ones (actually by accident, I tried to straighten them out, but they ended up falling apart) and introduced 2 frames of filled wax combs once again for them to use as guides. Haven't checked in 2 weeks, but I go in tomorrow to see how they did

I guess they really need a guide to get started right.
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 11:01:35 PM »

Is it normal for the comb from each frame to be interconnected to each other?
It is not uncommon to have issues with foundationless frames.  Although you can have similar issues using foundation, I find it less so.   Cut out the bad stuff before it gets worse,  sometimes giving a drawn frame in the middle helps.  Other times it doesn't as they overdrawn the drawn frame into the frame space of the adjacent frames,  especially in honey supers.

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and180
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2008, 02:46:46 PM »

Thank you for your advice. Annette, what you describe to me is exactly what happen to me.Thank you again. Andy
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annette
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2008, 03:04:58 PM »

Checked on them today, and they seem to be filling out the frames pretty good with that guide they have.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2008, 11:53:13 PM »

Is it normal for the comb from each frame to be interconnected to each other?
It is not uncommon to have issues with foundationless frames.  Although you can have similar issues using foundation, I find it less so.   Cut out the bad stuff before it gets worse,  sometimes giving a drawn frame in the middle helps.  Other times it doesn't as they overdrawn the drawn frame into the frame space of the adjacent frames,  especially in honey supers.



If you go the drawn frame in the middle route make sure it is capped.  T%he capping of the comb will mean the bees won't open it just to draw it out further and will work on the adjactent frames.
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2008, 06:51:04 AM »

I learned the hard way and now I put a foundation filled (but not drawn out) frame in the center of each foundationless box. 

I have found that they tend, in 8 frame boxes which for some reason are not built with bee space in mind and the frames can sit farther apart from each other, to make fatter honey comb that isn't always even from the center rib. 

But since I do crush and strain, this doesn't really matter.  I do feel sad when there's gorgeous, soft comb, fat with honey and the placement isn't even from the center rib when it would otherwise be perfect for cut comb honey.

Linda T in Atlanta
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annette
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2008, 11:06:24 AM »


[/quote]

If you go the drawn frame in the middle route make sure it is capped.  T%he capping of the comb will mean the bees won't open it just to draw it out further and will work on the adjactent frames.
[/quote]


Wow Brian, that just makes good sense. I will definitely have to remember that.
Annette
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marliah
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 06:19:56 PM »

good thread, I was just wondering about this. I just checked on my gals today and the second brood hive is just about full and I added a honey super. I did notice some of the frames in the brood box were slightly crooked and when I would pull them up they would scrape (one was fully capped honey! and about a 4"by 4" spot got ripped open) so sad! but I did get a free taste cause of it Wink LOL So I have run into the same issues as annette. I haven't had to remove any of these frames completely (yet anyway) but there may come a time I have to, I only pulled out a couple to check today, but from the topside they looked like the most irregular/crooked.

So yeah this has helped me alot thanks!
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 06:53:06 PM »

>Is it normal for the comb from each frame to be interconnected to each other?

No.  If it's in the supers, I'd leave it and just harvest it later.  If it's in the brood nest, I'd remove the cross combs, straighten anything that can be straightened (cut top and bottom and push back in the center of the frame)  and put that comb between two well drawn combs to keep them in line.
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