Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 24, 2014, 07:49:52 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Laying worker trouble!!!  (Read 4267 times)
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« on: April 27, 2008, 02:33:28 PM »

OK it looks like the mystery of this troublesome hive has been solved. I have tried to requeen them and that did not work. (they killed the queen in the cage). Finally took some photos and blew them up on the computer. Multiple eggs, not in the center and not in the bottom of the cell.

Laying worker!!!!  So I will be introducing for about 3 weeks, a frame of open brood every week in the hopes they start to understand that they should make a queen.

Wish me luck. Guess I could lose this hive if they do not get it.

Annette





« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 06:39:57 PM by annette » Logged
UtahBees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 268


Location: Orem, Utah


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 04:27:56 PM »

Good luck! I'm glad all of you have posted advice on this, in case I ever need help. Upload some of those photos so we can see!!
Logged

annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 06:43:40 PM »

OK you got it. I believe the first photo is the best. And open it up as large as you can to see the multiple eggs. When I looked at this frame in the sun, it looked like the eggs were right in the middle and in the bottom of the cell. Only when placed on the computer can you really see the truth that they are not in the middle and not on the bottom.

Annette
Logged
UtahBees
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 268


Location: Orem, Utah


WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 07:23:24 PM »

Oh wow! Beautiful photos, terrible laying pattern. You're 100% correct! Not like there was a question on that anyways Wink

Thanks for sharing the photos, and good luck on getting that worked out soon.

Scott
Logged

Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 07:33:47 PM »

I'd give them a frame of open brood a week for three weeks.  That usually fixes things.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
asprince
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1696

Location: Fort Valley, Georgia


« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 07:36:13 PM »

Good luck, I had this trouble with a hive last year. I finely had to shake them out of the hive in front of my other hives forcing them to find a new hive.

Since then I have been doing some thinking.....dangerous. If you put a queen rite hive on top of the hive with the laying workers (double screen between them) would that fool them into believing they two were also queen rite?

Steve   
Logged

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 07:57:07 PM »

I believe there is something like this on Michael Bush's web page regarding  solving the problems of the laying worker hive.

To begin with I will just keep introducing the frame of open brood every week and see if that works.
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 08:03:05 PM »

Yep, looks like multiples on the sides of the cells. Laying worker to me. Good luck Annette.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 09:28:12 PM »

If, a week after the 3rd frame is installed and you still see no sighs of queens cells it is time to shake out the hive and install another frame of brood, after that do a combine with the laying worker hive above.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 04:35:49 PM »

If, a week after the 3rd frame is installed and you still see no sighs of queens cells it is time to shake out the hive and install another frame of brood, after that do a combine with the laying worker hive above.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying Brian. OK I understand the first part about waiting up to 4 weeks after introducing the open brood, but then when you say shake out the hive, do you mean shake them out far away from the original location and then place the hive back in the original location. I have heard this before that the nurse bees will end up on the ground and cannot find their way home, while the foragers will return to the original hive.

But what do you mean by combining with the laying worker hive???

Annette
Logged
doak
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1788

Location: Central Ga. 35 miles north of Macon


« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 05:56:42 PM »

I have always herd it is best to take them 50-75 or maybe 100 feet away from the location to shake them.
The laying workers are to heavy to fly and will not return.

What I've herd. rolleyes
doak
Logged
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 615

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 06:55:43 PM »

I shook 2 laying worker colonies this spring just as Doak described.  I am waiting for all eggs to hatch prior to checking on them again and putting in a new queen.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
DayValleyDahlias
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1629


Location: Aptos, California


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 07:05:02 PM »

Oh wow Annette,

How frustrating, this is one of my biggest fears...laying workers...hope this time is the charm for you and the hive!
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather2_both_cond/language/www/US/CA/Aptos.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Aptos, California Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]

"Become vegetarian/vegan, and no one gets hurt"
Kev
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 244


Location: Hoosick Falls, NY


« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2008, 07:48:02 PM »

I had that trouble last year. Brendhan's advice: dump them all out 100 yards or more from the hive.

I did that and then combined with a nuc. Worked wonders. no trouble after that

kev
Logged

One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2008, 08:03:29 PM »

I have combined and gotten away with it, but I've also seen it end up queenless.  I've never seen a shake out resolve the problem.  The two sure methods are to move all the equipment and shake them all out on the ground and give the equipment to other hives.  The bees will drift.  Or a frame of brood every week for three weeks.  Everything else is iffy.

But here's a list of everything I ever got to work:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm


Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 12:05:30 AM »

The further away you can shake out the hive the better, in the city it might have to be done in the front yard when bees are in the back yard.  At my place I'd shake them out down by the barn which is close to 100 yards away from the bee yard.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 12:11:30 AM »

Oh wow Annette,

How frustrating, this is one of my biggest fears...laying workers...hope this time is the charm for you and the hive!

Thanks Sharon,

For some reason I am taking this very calm and peaceful. I will try to do the best I can for the hive, then surrender.

Take care
annette
Logged
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 12:12:49 AM »

The further away you can shake out the hive the better, in the city it might have to be done in the front yard when bees are in the back yard.  At my place I'd shake them out down by the barn which is close to 100 yards away from the bee yard.

OK Brian, Thanks also for the info. Hopefully I will not get to this point.

annette
Logged
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 09:16:01 AM »

If you happen to have another hive or possibly a queen cell from somewhere, you could try putting that in there(after spraying with some sugar water).  I had some luck with that.
Logged

Rick
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 12:35:49 PM »

That would be a great scenario, but unfortunately, my only other hive (I have only 2) is doing great right now and no queen cells.

Thanks for the response
Annette
Logged
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 05:27:14 PM »

OK dear people,

I just introduced another 2 frames of open brood and eggs to my laying worker hive in the hopes they make a queen. This will be week number 2 of doing this. Today I was very careful and saw the eggs, so I feel really good about this transfer.

Last week when I gave them the frames I did not see eggs, just larvae in various stages of growth. I did not know how to find eggs last week. I just now for the first time since beekeeping have figured out how to find the eggs.  I may give this hive an extra week of open brood just in case I did not give them any eggs last week.

Wish me luck that they make a queen.

The only thing I feel really badly about right now, is I am disturbing my one and only good hive which is making so much honey. I keep taking frames of brood from them when they need to be strong now. It also takes me some time to find the right frame of brood and I had to open up each and every super until I finally found the right frames. I guess they will be fine

Have a great day
Annette
Logged
DayValleyDahlias
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1629


Location: Aptos, California


WWW
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 08:17:38 PM »

Annette,

What is your secret to finding eggs??
 grin

Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather2_both_cond/language/www/US/CA/Aptos.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Aptos, California Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]

"Become vegetarian/vegan, and no one gets hurt"
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 10:24:25 PM »

I finally focused in on the bottom of the cells and really concentrated by looking and looking at the cells. Take a good look at the laying workers photo I posted here. Blow up the photo as large as possible (if you keep clicking on the picture it blows up very large). Move around the photo until you can see the eggs laying in the cells.

You have to ignore the bees walking around on the comb and just focus.  Let me know how it works out.

Love
Annette

PS. The seedlings are coming up now and I am taking good care of them.
Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2008, 08:18:02 AM »

If you put a queen rite hive on top of the hive with the laying workers (double screen between them) would that fool them into believing they two were also queen rite?
Steve   


Steve, your question has not been answered, and I am curious about this too, maybe someone will answer, I think the question got lost in the posting.  Beautiful and most wonderful day, Cindi

P.S. Modified, Steve, I read Michael's site on the laying worker stuff, read that, there is some really interesting data, and the question that you asked is pretty much dealt with there, and explained so well, MB does such a great job of teaching in the most simplistic manner,  http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm, read it, it is good!!!!
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2008, 08:31:23 AM »

The only thing I feel really badly about right now, is I am disturbing my one and only good hive which is making so much honey. I keep taking frames of brood from them when they need to be strong now. It also takes me some time to find the right frame of brood and I had to open up each and every super until I finally found the right frames. I guess they will be fine

Have a great day
Annette

Annette, look at it this way, you are practising swarm control measures and you are learning a wealth of information.  You are becoming a great beekeeper, and you have many skills you are acquiring!!!  Good for you, there is a bright and sunny side to this laying worker business, hee, hee, beautiful day in this beautiful life.  Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 615

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2008, 08:39:32 AM »

After looking at a bunch of my colonies yesterday I found 3 of my hives with laying workers.

Two of which I already shook out to try and leave the laying workers behind.  So I am going to say good bye to these bees and shake them into a pail of soapy water and re-use the boxes elsewhere.

Something else I found that is interesting is one of my queens is laying multiple eggs in each cell.  I have decided to kill her this afternoon and introduce another queen.

Out of the 50 or so splits I made, only 2 rejected the intorduced queen.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2008, 09:02:05 AM »

BMAC.  Hold it with killing that queen that is laying multiple eggs.  I remember reading here that sometimes when a queen begins laying for the first time that she will for a short time lay multiple eggs, she will sort that out and be OK.  Just a thought here.  Best of this beautiful and wonderful day, Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 615

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2008, 09:08:50 AM »

BMAC.  Hold it with killing that queen that is laying multiple eggs.  I remember reading here that sometimes when a queen begins laying for the first time that she will for a short time lay multiple eggs, she will sort that out and be OK.  Just a thought here.  Best of this beautiful and wonderful day, Cindi

Nice tip.  I will give her a week before I give her a squish. 

Thanks....
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2008, 09:23:22 AM »

BMAC.  Good, she is probably so full of eggs she can't wait to get rid of the extras, hee, hee, she will probably be your best queen of all, she will show her appreciation of you sparing her life, have that beautiful and most wonderful day, Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
derrick1p1
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 203

Location: East Point, GA


« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2008, 10:35:20 AM »

I've been wondering also about the effects of taking brood from a strong hive to give to a queenless hive.  Although they are strong, this is the time of year that stealing brood may seem detrimental. 

I try to find a bit of sunlight to shine down into the cells when looking for eggs.  Tiny little suckers.  I think I'm going to invest in a magnifying glass.

Derrick
Logged

I won't let grass grow under my feet, there will be plenty of time to push up daisies.
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2008, 12:38:07 PM »

I've been wondering also about the effects of taking brood from a strong hive to give to a queenless hive.  Although they are strong, this is the time of year that stealing brood may seem detrimental. 

I try to find a bit of sunlight to shine down into the cells when looking for eggs.  Tiny little suckers.  I think I'm going to invest in a magnifying glass.

Derrick

Perhaps you will have better luck with the magnifying glass then I did. I still cannot see anything unless the sun shines into the cells, and at that point you cannot use a magnifying glass because you will fry the eggs. Maybe a very large magnifying glass would work. It did not work for me.

Let me know if it works for you.
Annette
Logged
golddust-twins
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 95


Location: Brookings, The Banana Belt on The Beautiful Southern Oregon Coast


« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2008, 01:07:08 PM »

Annette,  Thank you so much for posting this dilema.  I too have been having some problems with my hive since January.  In the Fall I had a gut feeling to requeen then but did not.  Your dilema has answered many questions.  I think my hive may be queenless or close to it.  The girls have been drawing supercedure cells like crazy.  I will be getting 3 nucs and 1 queen next week.  I was going to split this hive this Spring.  Plans have changed.

Thanks again,
Corinne
PS  Sorry you are having such problems with you hive.
Logged
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5314


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2008, 01:22:10 PM »

Hi Corinne

Thanks for your response. Well, if they are drawing supercedure cells, you are in luck.  At least they will make a queen.

Logged
golddust-twins
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 95


Location: Brookings, The Banana Belt on The Beautiful Southern Oregon Coast


« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2008, 01:34:12 PM »

Thanks Annette,

I am hoping they will draw a new queen before she is gone.  The hives disposition sure has changed this spring.  The bees are more defensive. 

Thanks again,
Corinne
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2008, 06:56:34 AM »

The younger the brood the less stress it is for the bees.  Eggs are very little investment.  Capped brood is a huge investment.  For an egg they fed a little pollen and honey to a queen (after they processed it into royal jelly).  For a capped brood cell they burned a cell of pollen, a cell of honey and a cell of water.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 615

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2008, 07:34:19 AM »

Well I did the deed for my laying workers last night.  I shoot them all and killed them.  revocered the boxes and placed them on other needed colonies.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2008, 09:25:57 AM »

BMAC, now you are just plain and simply brutal, hee, hee,  Wink Smiley Smiley Smiley.  Good that you dealt with that issue, things will be well, have that wonderful and awesome day, Cindi
Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2008, 09:39:13 AM »

Well I did the deed for my laying workers last night.  I shoot them all and killed them.  revocered the boxes and placed them on other needed colonies.

That is a lot of .22 shells.  Or did you go with something bigger? tongue
Logged

Rick
BMAC
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 615

Location: Upstate NY Schoharie county


WWW
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2008, 10:30:25 AM »

Well I did the deed for my laying workers last night.  I shoot them all and killed them.  revocered the boxes and placed them on other needed colonies.

That is a lot of .22 shells.  Or did you go with something bigger? tongue

Yeah.  It was bigger than a .22, but worry not.  I reload all my own ammo.  Except for the .22 anyway. 

I meant to type in shook them but seeing how I was killing something you can see what popped into my head first.
Logged

God Bless all the troops
Semper Fi Marines!
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15196


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2008, 01:32:09 PM »

another way to find eggs, especially for us older folks, is to take pictures of your frames as you inspect.  you'll see the eggs later when you look at the pictures.  this was an idea from cindi ages ago, and it is great.
not only will you see the eggs, but you'll spot other things that you missed when you were in the hive.  you'll also have a record that you can compare from inspection to inspection.  if you mark the frames, you'll be able to identify which you have photographed.  a sharpie does the trick.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
golddust-twins
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 95


Location: Brookings, The Banana Belt on The Beautiful Southern Oregon Coast


« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2008, 03:01:59 PM »

Kathyp, Thanks for the tip as yes I am one of those older ones.

thanks
Corinne
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.627 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page October 16, 2014, 12:20:55 AM
anything