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Author Topic: whats the problem with Round-up (glysophate)  (Read 6926 times)
Keith13
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« on: April 10, 2008, 12:22:52 PM »

I understand organic farmers, landscapers don't use it due to its a chemical, I have no problem with that, more power to them. but why is it bashed on the forum by other non organic people. I pulled a lot of journals from my company as well as Monsanto (creator of chemical), and the EPA and I can't find one that states that it has a harmful effect on honey bees, in a realistic dose. Am I missing something?

http://www.biotech-info.net/glyphosate.html

Keith
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 12:58:52 PM »

Round Up is made by Monsanto. A company that is about as evil as it gets. They advertise products as good for the environment and get sued for false advertising and lose and then use continue to false advertise because they have the money.

They produce hazardous waste and poison entire towns and then create front companies to defer liability.

They now manufacture 90% of the GMO crops out there. They then force farmers to  buy seed from them instead of being allowed to make their own seeds.

They sue farmers that don't use their seed and end up with cross pollinated plants.

They produced rBGH and falsified the records on how unhealthy it was to cows and how it contaminated milk.

They along with Dow produced Agent Orange and falsified or destroyed records on how damaging the product was to humans.

They are the best example of a company that produces a profit with no regard to the health of the people using their product. This is the example of a company without a conscience. While the shareholders may love them. And they do make lots of money. The problem is real people are affect negatively by their products. And instead of being upfront on the matter they will do everything they can to hide the truth.

The economic problem is for farmers is that you can buy Monsanto GMO products at a much lower price then natural seed or other products. And with the cost of farming these days it is very difficult for a farmer to keep their farm and business and not end up in debt or bankrupt without being cornered into buying their product.

When you neighbor has GMO soybeans and spent half the money you might on your farm that has a huge effect. The problem is that the soybean itself is not healthy.

In regards to rBGH the farmer is producing twice as much milk but has cows that are ending up unhealthy. But because of the milk production he can always buy another cow.

The Monsanto issue is that it forces the farmer to become dependent on Monsanto. The health issues for people, livestock, and plants is never really addressed by Monsanto.

But they have lots of really cute things on their website that says they do.

I have no problem with a company making money or making products. But there has to be a certain level of quality to the product where it doesn't harm the people, livestock, and plants. I am not talking about the very rare instance of the one in a million reaction. But when the residents of Anniston Alabama talk about the ppb (parts per billion) level of contamination in their blood as a way to determine life expectancy because they are all contaminated by PCBs(another Monsanto product). You have to look at the interest of the community and it's citizens over the interest of the shareholder.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

PS. I can back all of this up with references but I have to get to work. There are also several very good documentaries on Monsanto and how it behaves.

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Keith13
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2008, 01:04:26 PM »

Wow,
I was just curious as to why beeks dont like to spray round up. didn't realize monsano has started the Apocalypse
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 01:08:38 PM »

Wow,
I was just curious as to why beeks dont like to spray round up. didn't realize monsano has started the Apocalypse
hehe

You have to know the parent to understand the child. Round Up is really not good for bees. It is an herbicide that can get on the pollen. The effects are simple it kills bees. Even non organic farmers don't like dead hives.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

modified and running late for work.

The effect of Round Up is said to have no effect on bees directly.
Round Up is not recommended in Wetlands due to the threat to aquatic wildlife, South Florida has a lot of that.

So I will withdraw earlier statement till I can find my report.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 02:56:16 PM by Understudy » Logged

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shawnwri
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 01:17:28 PM »

If you don't like Monsanto don't by Roundup, but it is off patent and other companies are manufacturing similar products.  Glyphosate (the active ingredient in Roundup) does not kill bees  rolleyes.  Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting the enzyme EPSP synthase, which catalyzes the reaction of shikimate-3-phosphate (S3P) and phosphoenolpyruvate to form 5-enolpyruvyl-shikimate-3-phosphate (ESP). ESP is subsequently dephosphorylated to chorismate an essential precursor in plants for the aromatic amino acids: phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan. The shikimate pathway is not present in animals, which obtain aromatic amino acids from their diet.

My big complate with glyphosate is tht the ideas of crop rotation, cultivation, herbicide rotation etc. have been neglected by those only growing RR crops.
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durkie
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 01:58:15 PM »

Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting the enzyme EPSP synthase, which catalyzes the reaction of shikimate-3-phosphate (S3P) and phosphoenolpyruvate to form 5-enolpyruvyl-shikimate-3-phosphate (ESP). ESP is subsequently dephosphorylated to chorismate an essential precursor in plants for the aromatic amino acids: phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan. The shikimate pathway is not present in animals, which obtain aromatic amino acids from their diet.

well, now that we have a copy/paste from the wikipedia page, i guess the argument is settled... rolleyes
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danno
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 02:08:36 PM »

The LD 50 for roundup is 4,320 mg/kg   For anyone that does understand what this means 100 Lab rats are fed a diet of a material until 50 or 1/2 die.  The amount is recorded and it becomes the LD50. In comparison nicotine has a LD50 of 53, caffeine a LD50 of 192, Aspirin a LD50 of 1,000, table salt a LD50 of 3,000 and table sugar a LD50 of 29,700 mg/kg.  Roundup is deadly only if your green
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shawnwri
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 02:23:07 PM »

Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting the enzyme EPSP synthase, which catalyzes the reaction of shikimate-3-phosphate (S3P) and phosphoenolpyruvate to form 5-enolpyruvyl-shikimate-3-phosphate (ESP). ESP is subsequently dephosphorylated to chorismate an essential precursor in plants for the aromatic amino acids: phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan. The shikimate pathway is not present in animals, which obtain aromatic amino acids from their diet.

well, now that we have a copy/paste from the wikipedia page, i guess the argument is settled... rolleyes

I could have quoted from any number of sources.  Just because I used wikipedia doesn't make the information any less true.  Which reference would you like me to use?
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Keith13
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 02:26:50 PM »

thats sort of where i was with all this Danno. I work for a company that deals with a lot of nasty chems. we have all these books that tell us about the bad chemicals you know IDLH PEL so on and so forth. anyway none of the books list glysophate. that is why i asked the question that started all this. i was thinking about spraying around my hives to keep the weeds down thats all
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 02:47:14 PM »

thats sort of where i was with all this Danno. I work for a company that deals with a lot of nasty chems. we have all these books that tell us about the bad chemicals you know IDLH PEL so on and so forth. anyway none of the books list glysophate. that is why i asked the question that started all this. i was thinking about spraying around my hives to keep the weeds down thats all

Perhaps they don't list it because you've spelled it incorrectly. The name for the compound is, glyphosate, not glysophate. A Google search shows that there is a chronic practice, by many, to spell the name of this compound incorrectly. Could be one of those Monsanto conspiracies.
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2008, 03:00:27 PM »

Keith,

You never know when you're going to light a wildfire here. As for Roundup's feasibility - you've gotten some good data here but there is also evidence that over time there is a buildup of residual elements (salts I believe) in the soil that will eventually be negative. Not much searchable data on that but it's out there. The other issue is the widespread abandonment of deep soil tillage which is good and bad: less use of fossil fuels but a tendency for certain invasive plants with deep rhizome systems to survive and spread. As for bees - my feeling is that since roundup works best when applied in bright sunlit daytime hours and since that's when my bees are out and about ...why take the chance. Why add to their burden however vague the threat may be.
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shawnwri
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 03:05:17 PM »

thats sort of where i was with all this Danno. I work for a company that deals with a lot of nasty chems. we have all these books that tell us about the bad chemicals you know IDLH PEL so on and so forth. anyway none of the books list glysophate. that is why i asked the question that started all this. i was thinking about spraying around my hives to keep the weeds down thats all

Perhaps they don't list it because you've spelled it incorrectly. The name for the compound is, glyphosate, not glysophate. A Google search shows that there is a chronic practice, by many, to spell the name of this compound incorrectly. Could be one of those Monsanto conspiracies.

Now that you have exposed the conspiracy, the men in the black helicopter will be by for you soon.  Resistance is futile.
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 07:09:16 PM »

i like roundup.  i use it around our fruit trees.  i use crossbow to kill blackberries.  weedmaster to kill broad leaf weeds.  i am to flipping old to do it all by hand.  roundup kills grass.  if you need to kill grass and don't mind using a chemical to do it, use it. 

some people would like us still to be starting fires by rubbing sticks together, or dying of cholera and malaria for lack of chemicals and drugs.  educate yourself and use good judgment.
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2008, 06:01:00 AM »


Amen Miss Kathy; Have used roundup since it came on the market and dont plan on being without it. Youall folks need to have to make yo living controling noxious weeds and grasses and I sho dont plan on going back to a team of mules and a hoe
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danno
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2008, 07:42:51 AM »

Just one more thing that I need to add.  Roundup is a approved herbicide by gerber baby food up here in Michigan.  I really dont think they are a division of monsanto. 
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JP
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2008, 09:12:18 AM »

Keith, I have used the glysophate from H.D. If you want you can seal your hives before you apply it, just make sure they have ventilation. You could also put something down around and under your hives to keep weeds from growing, like gravel or plastic.


...JP
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 10:06:47 AM »

Wow, what a thread.  Some great and wonderful information and great comments.  Roundup is a great herbicide.  There is no doubt about that.  It kills anything green that it comes into contact with.  It can also cause devastation to surrounding "wanted" greens if there is winddrift.  It can also kill stuff like raspberry canes if it comes into contact with the canes.   With some crops, it does not have to come into contact with the green growing part, I know.  I have seen this happen to a small part of my raspberry patch.   When using Roundup, be really careful about winddrift.

Evidently, once Roundup hits the earth, it becomes inert.  But overuse of it I don't doubt for a minute can build up residue in the soil (if it is overused).

Sometimes the choice must be made, weed kill to allow crops to grow, or not.  The crops won't grow with weeds that have overtaken them.  Herbicides are necessary, used judiciously, no choice sometimes.

The problem with the spraying of herbicides is if it comes into direct contact with the bees or other bugs, it must not  be good.  Have a wonderful, beautiful day.  Cindi
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 10:24:25 AM »


Evidently, once Roundup hits the earth, it becomes inert. 

Since someone complained about my previous source, I pulled my copy of the Herbicide Handbook (7th Edition) off my desk.   Here is more information for those with an open mind.

Glyphosate is rapidly and tightly adsorbed to soil.  Organic matter, clay, silt, or sand content and soil pH have minimal effect on adsorption   Glyphosate adsorption correlates with the amount of vacant phosphate sorpition sites and may occur through binding of the phosponic acid moiety.  High levels of metallic cations in clay soils increase the amouont of glyphsate adsorbed.  Strong adsorption to soils is evidenced in part by low phytotoxicity with soil applications.  Photodegredation is negligible.  It has moderate persistance with a typical filed half-life of 47 days.  Degraded microbiall in sol and water with rates varying with microbial population.  From 10 to 70% of clyphose may be transformed to CO2 over a growing season.  Non-microbial degradation rates are negligible.
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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 11:58:24 AM »

I'm going out and drink a whole jug of the stuff.
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 11:59:59 AM »

Let's add some fuel to the fire.... evil




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