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Author Topic: Hives are wrapped up, but the bees are on the OUTSIDE?  (Read 7815 times)
eivindm
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2004, 06:40:43 AM »

As I think I have mentioned before, In Norway apistan is not used at all.  Acid treatment is the only method used, which means that we don't get rid of the mites, but keep them in such low number that they don't do much harm. No one in Norway want medication near the honey, that's why apistan is not used.

Anyway, I just thought I should mention that acid treatment not nescessarily need special equipment like a vaporizer.  In Europe you can buy kramer plates.  That is a soft plate soaked with acid wrapped in a plastic bag.  When you will treat your bees with this, you make some holes in the bag and put it on top of your frames.  The acid will dampen in the right amount during the day.  The plate stays for 1-3 weeks depending of the time of the year.


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Anonymous
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2004, 08:44:21 AM »

Eivindm,
Neither Apistan (fluvalinate) or Checkmite (coumophos) are to be used when you have honey supers on the hives. They are used and removed well before you put honey supers on in the spring, or right after you remove the honey supers in the fall.
I don't know about the rest of the states, but I do know that the use of formic or oxalic acid is illegal to use in bee hives in the state of Pennsylvania.
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eivindm
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2004, 08:17:06 AM »

Quote from: carbide
Eivindm,
Neither Apistan (fluvalinate) or Checkmite (coumophos) are to be used when you have honey supers on the hives. They are used and removed well before you put honey supers on in the spring, or right after you remove the honey supers in the fall.
I don't know about the rest of the states, but I do know that the use of formic or oxalic acid is illegal to use in bee hives in the state of Pennsylvania.


I believe the american and norwegian policy on this matter is very different.  I know that apistan is not to be used when the supers is on, but as long as one don't have to use pestiside near food related tools, I think it should be avoided anyway.  Acid is not dangerous at all, and I really can't understand why it should be illegal.  I think this is the same issue as farmers abroad uses antibiotics in the cows food to make them grow faster even though they are not sick.  This is strictly forbidden here.  You wouldn't be able to sell honey in NOrway if you used apistan.

But anyway, my main point was not to go into the acid/apsitan discussion, but to show a method using acid that didn't need special tools. It is possible to treat with acid just as labour unintenisive as with apistan and without special tools.
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t0k
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2004, 10:24:34 AM »

<<<I'm afraid I just don't understand the hesitancy of beekeepers to use medications in their hives. Antibiotics (Terramycin in particular) will not hurt bees and I don't understand why someone would be unwilling to use a preventive measure to prevent a nasty disease (foulbrood) in their hives<<<



if antibiotics are used as a prevention its no good
in time diseases will become resistant to it, thats what i've been taught
there is also a problem of everything in the hive beeing contaminated with antibiotics for a long time
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Anonymous
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2004, 12:21:46 PM »

It is true, in time some bacterial and diseases do become resistant to treatment. There is a strain of AFB that (after over 30 years of use) has proven to be resistant to terramycin. The strain is however treatable with tylocin.
Does a hive become "contaminated" with the antibiotics? The fact is that terramycin has a half life of 4-5 days in a hive enviroment. This means that it loses half of its efficacy (potentcy) in 4-5 days and half again in another 4-5 days, etc., etc. This being the case, by the time I put my honey supers back on my hives in the spring the terramycin will have retained less than 0.00001% efficacy. If this is the definition of "contaminated", then I'm afraid that my honey is contaminated by a lot more things that are harmful to me than terramycin.
Irregardless, it seems that there are a number of people on this forum that don't believe in treating their hives with medication and are willing to take a chance on their hives well being with little or no treatment. I'm just glad that none of their hives are anywhere near mine.
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Finman
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2004, 05:27:25 PM »

after-thought is a bad kind od wisdom.

I killed my first hive 20 years ago because of varroa.

Many tricks have tried and now things seems so easy. But the way to this day has been difficult. 10 years ago we did not know what to do with varroa. Apistan was good. It is quite expencive compared with acids.

Before the second world war there was no antibiots. Bee hives all died many times  from farmers.   Nowadays many talk like antibiots are some poison. They do not understand that with antibiots situation is now so good as it is.

I have used terramycin 35 years. In Finland there are no base values for terramycin. It means that in honey teccamycin is not allowed to exist.

We can use terramycin, if honeys is not sold or medicin is given in perevious summer or autumn.

Many beekeepers are very sensitive for talking abot the matter and some use terramycin without licence.

Relative with these sensitive thinking is that bees must give real honey on winter.  The manage over winter beautifully with mere sugar.
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Jay
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2004, 10:46:56 PM »

If you won't medicate your hive to prevent illness there, ask yourself this - Do I keep my kids current on all their innoculations?  If you protect your kids with medication against something they might or might not get, Why wouldn't you protect your girls against illness as well? My 2 cents.
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Robo
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2004, 08:41:16 AM »

Quote from: carbide
I don't know about the rest of the states, but I do know that the use of formic or oxalic acid is illegal to use in bee hives in the state of Pennsylvania.


Carbide,

Not looking to stir the pot in this debate on treatments,  but can you elaborate on this statement.  I know there has been a lot of heated debate on other forums about "illegal" vs. "Not Approved".  Is this a general statement that anything not explicitly approved for treatment (including mineral oil, essential oils, etc) is illegal and I assume punishable in some way.  Or is it explicit towards the acids?  Just trying to understand.
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2004, 11:41:03 AM »

Robo wrote:
Quote
Is this a general statement that anything not explicitly approved for treatment (including mineral oil, essential oils, etc) is illegal and I assume punishable in some way. Or is it explicit towards the acids?
[/b]

The Apiary laws of Pennsylvania disallow any chemical substace to be used in a beehive for pest or disease treatment unless it is specifically approved by EPA Section 18. Any use of these substances is punishable by a fine of up to $100 per occurence (if you are caught using it in 10 hives it would cost you $1000). The fine is doubled if you are caught doing the same thing within a 3 year period.

Items specifically exempted from this law are those items that are specifically exempted from EPA review such as: mineral oil, essential oils, mint, peppermint or any combination of these items.

At the present time the only items allowed to be used in Pa. are coumophos (checkmite) and thymol. These are being reviewed and approved by the EPA on a yearly basis.
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Robo
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2004, 05:41:29 PM »

Carbide,

Thanks for the explination....
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