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Author Topic: Angi, a whopper of a story about Whoppo  (Read 2237 times)
Cindi
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« on: March 31, 2008, 12:02:02 AM »

OK, Angi, this one is for you, (or anyone else with any comments to make, hee, hee).  Any answers that forthcome from this thread may be beneficial one day to anyone who keeps Muscovy ducks and turkeys.  (Ann, yes, I know too that you are going to remind me to become a member of Backyard Chickens, I am a bad girl, I know I should, but I am very hung up on my Beemaster forum, hee, hee).

I am sure by now that Whoppo is almost becoming a household name.  For those who don’t know who Whoppo is, I will elaborate a little here.  Whoppo is my 5-1/2 month old Muscovy drake, who has recently come into his prime and knows that he owns his 5 ducks, but he thinks he owns he entire chicken and duck yards -- and can push me around.  I have had several “talks” with this dude, but he still thinks that he commands the yards.

I must go back a little bit further again and explain who Abigail and Madeline are (and Richard too).  They are my turkey hens and Richard is the tom.  Beautiful creatures they are.

Abigail has taken on the job of being my protector, Angi told me that sometimes the turkeys will take their human owner into their flock, and I am indeed a’thinkin’ that I have bee assimilated and  have become part of her flock (soon there should be tons of little parts of the flock hangin’ round, there is 19 eggs in their nest right now) (I am snoopy, hee, hee). (Please don’t tell me that snoopin’ would wreck their plans of one day becoming broody).

Abigail does a pretty good job of protecting me from Whoppo.  When he comes around me too much hissing and hiss away, she surrounds him over and over, making a sound like kind of a purr that really sends him on hi-tail out of there.  And then both hens are making him go on the run.  Oh brother, I guess women’s strength in numbers, hee, hee.

Now, where was I?  I had a huge question to ask but I had to set the scene firstly.

Right, so tonight after supper I was outside still working on a huge dirt pile that my Son-in-Law’s Brother had brought over (actually several dirt piles).  I have been working for two solid days, firstly with my oldest Grandson and the trailer we pull behind the quad.  We would shovel the dirt into the trailer and then take it out back to dump it in some rather large divets.  Eventually that part of the mechanical work was done, the rest must be done with shovel and wheelbarrow.  That be my part alone.  So I shovel and I push that ding dang blue wheelbarrow, eeks!!!

I heard the sound the Abigail makes when she is surrounding and intimidating Whoppo.  I was listening while I worked and this sound seemed to go on too long (it probably was only about a minute or two).  I went quickly over to the east chickenyard and I saw Whoppo chasing Abigail into the henhouse.  I hurried faster.  By the time I got there Whoppo was back outside, she was still inside.  Don’t know what really went on in the few seconds before I had a visual.  I watched and I waited.  Abigail came outside and then proceeded to attempt to intimidate Whoppo again.  She was getting very very aggressive and I was getting pretty concerned.  Turkey’s have a very pointed and rather sharp looking beak.  Whoppo began to go away as fast as he could with Abigail hot on his trail, and I mean really after him, and then Madeline took up the chase too.  Whoppo ran and ran and wound up in the covered sawdust paddock with Abigail right in there with him.  I went to see what was going on, and I was actually quite fearful for the safety of Whoppo.  She had him close to a corner and was starting to peck at his head.  Eeeks…….I intervened.  Don’t know if I should have, but I was very worried.  She left the sawdust paddock and he left too.  Next Whoppo chased her into the chicken house.  Something went on in there and she came out with him still hot on her tail.  He grabbed some of her down feathers and had a mouthful.  I got Whoppo to buzz off and Abigail and Madeline just carried on with their merry business.

I think that both turkey hens were a little upset with this whole episode because neither of them went happily into their roosts.  I had to coax them to go in.

That is the story.  I got a very distinct impression that turkeys and ducks got along quite well in the chickenyard.  This event lends me to believe that this may have been some misinformation.

Is it normal for turkeys and ducks to fight?  Whoppo is a very very large duck and I think if this continues, there could be some damage to either species of birds.

The next question is: is this ongoing extremely aggressive behaviour very typical of the Muscovy drakes?  Whoppo is extremely possessive and aggressive towards his territory.  The reason why I say this is because we had another Muscovy drake (which was just as big as this Whoppo dude), and he was not even close to being aggressive at all.  Not in the slightest, and he was a great sire for a good couple of years, until he got killed by that nighttime creature, along with 9 others of his like.

If this behaviour that Whoppo is displaying is unusually aggressive, I have no issue with putting him in the oven (saving some yummy Muscovy duck for JP of course).  I have other leads where I can obtain another drake.  One that may perhaps not be this aggressive.  He is certainly quite intimidating and I am getting rather tired of having to have these little “talks” with him, almost on a daily basis.  I know one day, sooner or later I am gonna get that nasty bite on the calf (thank goodness I wear my gumboots almost all the time these days), but summer and shorts are not that far away.

So Angi, these questions are mostly for you.  I know that you raise Muscovys and probably have had dealings with nasty old hissing drakes before.  I have used the measures that you described to me to put in him in place, but honestly, I don’t really think he is listening.  Beautiful day in this beautiful life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 01:19:34 AM »

The hens would not have went after him and tried to teach him a lesson if he did not start it to began with.  Your 2 gals are sweethearts and from the sound of it they would have not been the ones who started it. I bet the reason that those 2 went after him is because he started it and they wanted to teach him a lesson. He needs to go to muscovy Juvie. He is not learning other wise he would not be doing  what he is doing to get him self into trouble with the hens. If he has not learned now  Sadly I dont think he will ever learn. If I were you I would rehome him into your oven. (see jps post on how to cook Whoppo) Wink And get another calmer drake. You do not want those maners in your flock and you dont want those mean genes in the flock as well. As agresseveness can be passed on to the offspring. You can do better then that. He is very pritty but his manners are lacking. And as much as you spoil your group there is no reason for it. Not one bit. I just wish mine were laying. They need to hurry up and start  I have one duckling and that was from eggs I bought and only got one out of a doz and half. Sorry hun I know you knew it was coming to an end.. And I was hoping the turkey hens would have helped solve it but sounds like he is the one starting all of it as that is him.


Angi
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Cindi
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 09:11:07 AM »

Angi, I will listen to you, I believe that he is a nasty dude and has no manners, and probably never will.  And absolutely 100%, I do not want genes like his here.  I will get a line on a drake and Whoppo will be duck dinner indeed.  He is still young, so he will be tender and he is big, so he will make a whopping great dinner (sorry JP, can't send any Whoppo by mail, hee, hee).

Angi, we have one Muscovy duck that is sitting on 13 eggs, she is broody as ol' getout and should be hatching in about 3 weeks.  We'll see what his egg viability is.  He mates them, but I guess that doesn't always mean the sperm is mature?  The other two year old Muscovy is still laying and I am collecting her eggs, in the event that she goes broody, which I am sure will happen soon.  The three young ducks that were born the same time as Whoppo (came from Big Boy and the man that we got the incubator from) have not started laying yet.  But they sure are good friends with Whoppo now (compared to say two weeks ago), that I am sure they will be laying soon too.  Wonder why yours are not laying yet.  Is it the climate difference, I don't understand this part, your climate is warmer than mine.

Too bad that only 1 out of 18 incubated, that sounds like not very good odds there, that must have really peed you off for sure.

Yes, Angi, I have had a hunch that Whoppo might be coming to an end, and yes, it is looking more and more like that every day.

My turkey gals are sweethearts, there is no question about it.  And I can bet that bottom dollar that Whoppo started it all.  I didn't realize how fast the girls can run, Richard I don't think could run for his life, he is just a slow walking, slow talking joe.  I think that I am getting a little bit strange, the more I am around the flocks, the more that I like them, and I am particularly fond of the turkey gals.  They really are very neat birds and I love to watch them and be around them.  Their pretty beady black eyes are what really get me, and all the pretty sounds that they make.  And it never ceases to amaze me how many different sounds that they make.

I have a contact for a guy in a neighbouring town and I am going to give him a call today.  I am looking for a Khaki campbell drake (if he doesn't have a drake and only say, a trio, that would be cool too).  Our Khakis are now laying their eggs in the bushes alongside the fence.  It wouldn't take long to get a great clutch of Khakis on the go too.  I remember the Rouens we had last year loved to go broody.  Too bad that night killing took them all, along with the runner crosses.  Oh well.  Whoppo on the table soon.  Thanks for the advice, girl.  Have a beautiful and wonderful day in our great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 10:07:25 AM »

Well, I guess you'll just have to requeen Whoppo, too many aggressive traits!!!
Sounds like he is really ready now for the roasting bag. Goodbye Whoppo, its been nice knowing you, now where are those dern sweet onions again, I know they're somewhere around here...


...JP Wink Kiss Wink
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 11:39:24 AM »

Cindi
Sadly I agree with Angie.  Mr. Muscovy was always a gentleman.  He would only hiss at me if I bothered his hens on the nest. He would sit by the runner while she was incubating her egge after the muscovy girls were gone & followed along after the ducklings when hatched, chasing off cats etc.  His son was very agressive to Dad, (blinded one eye in a fight) but not to humans.  JP you better get a plane ticket to BC, onions & wire cutters in hand!!  I'll post on Haley when I get the time & am able to do it without bawling!  Jody
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 11:52:37 PM »

Quote
She had him close to a corner and was starting to peck at his head.  Eeeks…….I intervened.  Don’t know if I should have, but I was very worried.  She left the sawdust paddock and he left too.  Next Whoppo chased her into the chicken house.  Something went on in there and she came out with him still hot on her tail.  He grabbed some of her down feathers and had a mouthful.  I got Whoppo to buzz off and Abigail and Madeline just carried on with their merry business.

By interferring to protect Whoppo you might have turned the tables on the turkey hens and they now think you're on his side, not theirs.  The only cure for a mean Drake, Rooster, Tom, or Gander is an oven set at about 375 for 1 hour per pound.
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 12:04:27 AM »

Jody, good to hear that you feel that way too about the temperament of the drake.  He is in no way or form even close to being an OK type of guy.  Plain downright mean, and out to get me.  Today I was filling up the water pails and had my back turned.  He actually snuck up on me without hissing, oooh, now that gets me really mad.  That is not natural, they are hissers.  I felt something on the back of my gumboot and it was him.  He must have tried to take a bite on my leg and got the rubber instead.

Now, an interesting thing happened actually after that.  I still had a couple of hours doing stuff outside in the yards.  I don't know if this is just me concocting an idea or something that is not true, but it appeared to me that Whoppo went about minding his own business after he thought he got a chomp (or should I say pinch) on my boot.  He didn't bother me for a couple of hours, until I was leaving the chickenyard, then he came over really fast.  Oh well.  I believe his days are numbered.  His dad was a beauty of a drake, and he was very gentle and nice.  Don't know where the meaness came from.   Ooops, hold on.  I almost forgot, Whoppo was hatched in an incubator.  The incubator had eggs from two different sets of parents.  The previous drake might not even have been his father, it may in all likelihood have been the one from the man we got the hatching eggs from.  Now that is making certainly more sense to me the more I think about it.  Big Boy was a gentleman and I really loved that dude, miss him alot. Hmmmm.....we have a duck sitting on 13 eggs.  These ducks are all destined for the freezer, so the aggressive gene is not that important, we will not be breeding them anyways.  Just yummy duck dinners, beautiful day in this beautiful life.  Cindi

Right, forgot to add about the fight that Abigail and Whoppo got into yesterday.  I think that with almost certainty Abigail was setting the limit on where Whoppo was allowed to go and she needed to establish her territory.  She was very, very, very aggressive to him and again first thing this morning when I let her out.  That was the last I saw of her and Madeline.  I couldn't find either of the turkey hens late this afternoon, and I finally found them both sitting on the eggs, and they stayed there all day.  Madeline did get up and leave, but Abigail just kept on sitting.  She didn't even leave the eggs to roost, so I know she is now brooding.  Maybe Madeline will go broody too, there was 19 eggs in there yesterday, probably by today's end there would have been two more.  I have no clue how many eggs a turkey can successfully look after, time will tell that tale.  Some pretty interesting stuff for surely.  C.
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 12:10:31 AM »

Brian, I just read your post, just as I was posting mine.  You have said something very interesting about turning the tables on my relationship with the turkey hens, hee, hee.  Yes, I know that I say the weirdest things sometimes, but I truly feel that the like me  Smiley Smiley if human emotion can be equated to non-human.

I would hope that she did not perceive me as protecting Whoppo.  I think that may have been a possibility, again, time will tell that tale.  I don't think I will see much of Abigail over the next month.  She is pretty much brooding now.  She was on the nest all day today, and as I said in my last post here, she didn't even leave the egg nest to roost with Madeline and Richard.  Anyways, I am not on Whoppo's side, and he is as good as done.  I just have to figure out what to do about the situation.  Meaning that I would like to have a drake lined up, one that has a nice temperament, like old Big Boy (the last drake Muscovy), he was a sweety.  I agree with you Brian, that that type of behaviour in male fowl stock should not be tolerated, and I won't.  But he may have to hang around here for a little bit longer, hoping he doesn't get tough, waiting for the oven.  Beautiful day in this beautiful life. Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 01:46:51 AM »

Whatc if you go to try to pte the turkey hens while sitting they will hiss at you. Just like the muscovys. And that explaines a whole lott. They were protecting there clutch of eggs/ They are wanting to go broody and whoppo was getting to far and they were protecting there eggs. I have one hen broody and the other one might soon. They can cover up to 20 or so.


Angi
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 08:53:04 AM »

Angi, I love your new picture in your avitar, (is that a pic of you, hee, hee, kidding!!!).

Is it common for 2 hens to go broody in the same broody house.  They have a house that my Husband built for them to lay eggs, and it will fit both of them quite nicely.  Do they share parental duties if they both sit on the eggs?  Meaning mostly, say there are 19 eggs, like I counted the day before yesterday, will they move them around to fit under each one evenly?  I appreciate the answers, girl.  Beautiful day in this great life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 12:50:25 AM »

They can. If they both sit they will both take care of the babys till they get older then the babys will pick one over the other. I have only one hen broody at this time. the other 2 of the same breed is just laying.

Angi
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 01:57:06 PM »

Hmmm Cindi. I have two "Whoppos" of my very own. They are huge 15 pound drakes--hatched last summer. One black and green, one grey. They are as docile as they come. Last year they shared the run and coop with a big (29 pound dressed) turkey until Thanksgiving, and their two ducks and about 30 chickens. Every now and then there is a minor scuffle with a rooster, but that is just my fault for not dispatching those roos. Usually my whoppos just run from the trouble. Very sweet.

They are also as horny as can be evil. I love their love dances when the crest goes up and they stick their necks in and out. They come from productive stock (had 11 brothers and sisters), and their ducks have been laying what appears to be 6 eggs per day from two birds. Now that can't be right huh

Anyway, I love my muscovys. Sorry whoppo is causing problems for you. The only problem I have is that they love to get messy, wallow in mud, splash mud with wing beats etc, but I can live with it. They're animals afterall.
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 09:54:56 PM »

No it is impossable to get 6 eggs a day from 2 birds. Each egg takes about 23hrs to produce. Somtimes they can take as long as 36 hrs to produce. Look at those eggs closely they could have been laying longer then you thought as they love to hide the eggs under bedding. And you might also have more hens then you thought.


Angi
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 11:15:58 PM »

Thomashton.  Oh that makes me sad.  We had a beautiful Muscovy drake, his name was Big Boy, and he was the darling of all ducks.  He was grey and white and sired some of the most beautiful colours of ducklings, I really mean it, very pretty and very diversified in colours.  He had the most wonderful temperament and yes, he was a great sire.  That is why I am so bugged by the behaviour of Whoppo, he is so ding dang mean, I can feel that dude a mile away.  And it actually is making me rather annnoyed that I am hearing others that have the nice tempered M. drakes.  Not annoyed at the people, but annoyed that I got stuck with a nasty old dude.  So cranky. I wonder how that ever happened.  Suddenly, he stopped peeping, as he matured, and began hissing and shortly thereafter began mating and then turned horrible.  Before that he was really nice, if you can refer to a duck as being nice.  He was always around the human kind, it is not that he wasn't green to humans, far from it.  Oh well.  Guess we can't have it all.

I have three turkeys, 2 hens and a tom with beautiful temperaments, so I should be grateful about that and just plain and simply, stop whining, hee, hee, enough said from me now.  Have a beautiful and wonderful day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 01:08:46 PM »

No it is impossable to get 6 eggs a day from 2 birds. Each egg takes about 23hrs to produce. Somtimes they can take as long as 36 hrs to produce. Look at those eggs closely they could have been laying longer then you thought as they love to hide the eggs under bedding. And you might also have more hens then you thought.


Angi

Ya, I know. It really just seems like they are laying WAY more often than 1/day or less. They have laid so many that they each have a nest they are sitting on and they also have a third nest with a surrogate black austrolorpe hen who is pleased as punch to help out and sit.

They did begin the mating dances in late January so they have been after it a long time, but doggone, that really is a lot of eggs.

I also found another goose nest last night in my straw pile about 4 feet off the ground in the goat barn. Must have been new. There was only two eggs in it and also a chicken egg. Don't know how that got in there. The coop and run is about 250 feet away separated by two fences. Oh well.

Sorry Whoppo is such a pill. My ducks are great, but boy are the geese aggressive this year. Three geese and one gander and all are mad as can be. Wish they would decide to nest somewhere other than right in everyones way where you have to go by them, get hissed at, bitten, and wing beaten. They put up a show for me because they know I won't put up with it, but they are serious when my wife, 6-year-old son, or 20-month-old daughter come anywhere near them.
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