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Author Topic: Nosema Question  (Read 7793 times)
DayValleyDahlias
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« on: March 30, 2008, 01:50:47 AM »

No signs of Nosema here, but what do we do organically to prevent this bug?
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 09:11:01 AM »

No signs of Nosema here, but what do we do organically to prevent this bug?

You can't determine Nosema without a microscope and looking at the gut.  You can see dysentery from feces stains,  and although Nosema and dysentery sometimes go together,  one does not necessarily identify the other.

If you do a search,  I think FatBeeman uses tea tree oil?   I have no experience using it.
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 10:18:10 AM »

Okay, I was just wondering. I'll give it a search...

Tx

S
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2008, 10:19:55 AM »

>No signs of Nosema here, but what do we do organically to prevent this bug?

I've done nothing for 34 years with pretty good success.  I did buy a microscope this year as I am paranoid of Nosema cerana now.  I will investigate further to see if I can find Nosema or not.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 10:31:34 AM »

I guess I overlook the word prevent in the original post and assumed you were asking about treating.

I too have not done any preventative treating in many years.  I do make sure my hives have sufficient upper ventilation in the winter so that moisture does not become an issue and stress the bees.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 11:30:42 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema
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reinbeau
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 08:58:17 PM »

Do you have the April issue of the American Bee Journal?  There's an article in there about using thymol oil in syrup that sounded extremely intriguing for the treatment of nosema cerana and apis.  Supposedly it was as good as treating with Fumagilin (sp?).  Worth a shot, I guess!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 09:43:20 PM »

Thymol is what they use in Europe where Fumadil is illegal.
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2008, 10:24:53 PM »

I will google thymol, is it an essential oil?  I am wondering how well it mixes with syrup...hhmmm...I am going to leave well enough alone, but it is good to have proper "organcic" treatments handy should the need be...
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 07:21:28 AM »

>I will google thymol, is it an essential oil?

Sort of.  It is a plant extract, but it ends up as a white powder, not an oil.

>I am wondering how well it mixes with syrup

Not well, by all accounts.  I believe you'll have to dissolve it with everclear (ethyl alcohol) and then put it in the syrup.
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Michael Bush
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reinbeau
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 07:25:10 AM »

Michael is right (of course!  Wink ) you have to dissolve it in alcohol before putting it into syrup. 
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 11:05:13 AM »

Thank for the info...hope I never have to use the stuff... Wink
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DayValleyDahlias
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 11:29:31 AM »

Listerine:

The main chemical in Listerine is a non-edible alcohol, which kills germs and loosens the plaque in your gums. Menthol, thymol, and eucalyptus are there mostly for flavor; they do have an effect of soaking into the skin layers to make your mouth feel cooler and to make that taste remain for some time. The methyl salicylate is related to aspirin (acetylsalicylate) and will kill some of the germs as well as partially numbing the skin. This also contributes to the "clean" feeling.
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 10:45:43 PM »

Just lost 5 hives this winter to Nosema. I sent samples to Beltsville and the report came back with a mite count of 36 from the sample and a spore count of 2,450,000 per bee. They added that 1,000,000 spores per bee was considered very high.

I got to talking to a local commercial beek about it and he told me to scrape the frames, frame rests, and hive body down real good and get a spray bottle full of common vinegar and spray every thing down with it. He said after the stuff dried out most if not all of the Nosema spores would be killed or at least reduced to the point that it would be safe to place new bees back in those hives. Anyone have any experience with this method of killing Nosema spores?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 07:04:18 AM »

>Anyone have any experience with this method of killing Nosema spores?

I have not done it but it seems to be a popular method of cleaning up.  The other is to buy Acetic acid (the active part of the vinegar) and fumigate the hive with that.  I have not done that either, but it is supposed to be pretty effective.

I ran into a study the other day done in Australia on lemongrass oil for nosema, (fumidil is illegal in Australia as well as the EU) but I've been searching for days now and can't find it again.  I don't seem to have bookmarked it.  If anyone sees it, I'd love to read it again.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 09:16:11 AM »

Got a couple of warm days coming at the end of the week so I'm off to Wally World to get me some vinegar. Got five replacement nucs coming in may so I have to get busy. Thanks for the response MB..

Another question while I'm thinking about it, does anyone know if spraying frames with vinegar in spring and fall with live bees on them is harmful to the bees or not?
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 11:25:58 AM »

MB, do you remember if the article had to do with feeding lemmongrass oil?  i have noticed that if i use it in my syrup the syrup does not mold as quickly.  i also tried the tree tea oil in syrup in hopes of getting the chalkbrood under control.  don't know yet if it worked.  i can't seem to get rid of the stuff.
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 09:56:31 PM »

>Another question while I'm thinking about it, does anyone know if spraying frames with vinegar in spring and fall with live bees on them is harmful to the bees or not?

I would not spray it on the bees.

>MB, do you remember if the article had to do with feeding lemmongrass oil?

In syrup, yes.

>  i have noticed that if i use it in my syrup the syrup does not mold as quickly.

True.

>  i also tried the tree tea oil in syrup in hopes of getting the chalkbrood under control.

It might.  Raising the pH might also.

>  don't know yet if it worked.  i can't seem to get rid of the stuff.

The study was testing several essential oils, seems like it was tea tree, thymol and lemongrass and maybe patchuli or something like that.  But anyway they tested two different KINDS of lemongrass oil and had the efficacy for both (one was better than the other) and the lemongrass oil was better than the others for Nosema (if I remember right).  I wish I could find it again.  I thought sure I bookmarked it but I can't seem to find the bookmark...
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2008, 09:53:11 AM »

Kathy, tell us more about your chalkbrood stuff.  I remember from last year that you had these issues, big time.  I did too.  I wound up killing a queen that I had such high hopes of the chalkbrood rectifying itself.  I ended up uniting this colony with another one because I had been so hopeful of the condition clearing up, but never did.  By the time I got around to killing the queen the colony had dwindled really badly, so badly that unite was the only thing I could do.  I should have killed the queen much sooner than I did, but I just kept hoping it would clear up on its own for far too long.  I accept the fact that I was very neglectful with this colony and should have acted much sooner than I did, but man, sometimes life can get just so busy....what more can I say.

I want to hear more about this.  Are you experiencing chalkbrood right now?  If you are, is it in the same colony as last year.  I am wondering if you need to cull all that comb in that colony and start over with new foundation?  I am wondering too much here, no facts, so tell more about it.  This needs to be fixed before you got into the summer, so you need some help now......have a wonderful and beautiful day, Cindi
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2008, 12:19:35 PM »

cindi, my experience was almost exactly the same as yours.  i killed the queen, but to late.  that colony overwintered in 1 deep.  when i cleaned the SBB about a month ago, it was covered with chalkbrood carcasses. 

i am waiting a bit to see if this queen will be better, but i still some some chalkbrood on the bottom.  i have fed the tree tea oil in syrup.  i hate to mess with this hive.  it is the best of them in temperament, and this queen is a great layer.  however.....none of that makes any difference if the brood is no good.

i will be patient until warmer and dryer weather.  it is early yet.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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