Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?  (Read 2655 times)

Offline riverose

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« on: March 13, 2008, 01:42:17 PM »
Hi. I live where Africanised bees have already spread throughout most of the area, so I doubt there are any non-Africanised colonies left.

My question is, is it against the law to do removals of Africanised bees and not exterminate them? I've heard that in some places, it is, and it's discouraged to do so because Africanised bees are allegedly too aggressive to work with.

Buuut if it's not true, then certainly that would be something to consider doing.

Offline bassman1977

  • "King Bee"
  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 02:25:41 PM »
Where are you located?  You might get better help if we knew where you are.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(''')_(''')

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 03:21:08 PM »
A lot of us live in AHB areas and do removals. SShhhh don't tell anyone.

And just what AHB area do you live in?
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline Understudy

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
    • http://www.understudy.net
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 04:54:28 PM »
I live in an AHB area also.

Florida has some rules on this. I probably have violated a few of them.

Only licensed pest control operators are suppose to do removals.
I am not one of those.

They are suppose to destroy all feral hives.
I don't do that.

They are allowed to use chemicals to destroy hives.
I don't use chemicals.

They can charge a small fortune to do their work.
I don't charge for my services.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible

Offline riverose

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 04:34:32 PM »
I live in Southeast Texas, actually. So, yes, the Africanised bees have established themselves here.

Offline genesbees

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 06:53:29 PM »
I live in Southeast Texas, actually. So, yes, the Africanised bees have established themselves here.

I live in Southeast Texas and do removals all the time.  You are required to have a permit from the State Apiary Inspection Service ($35.00 per year).  As far as there not being any non-AHB ferals in the area, I have done perhaps 50 removals in the last 1-1/2 years and have not come across an AHB hive yet.  The last study I saw showed them at about 30% of the feral bee population in areas where there is little or no influence from managed hives.  Most of Southeast Texas has a lot of managed hives and a lot of northern bees that are over-wintered here, so as per my experience, you can't just automatically assume that a hive is AHB just because it is not managed.  That being said, I always approach the cutouts cautiously and come prepared for the worst.  So far, knock on wood, I have been lucky.
"The UNKNOWN, huh?  That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

Offline Understudy

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 4641
  • Gender: Male
    • http://www.understudy.net
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 07:37:42 PM »
I think you might find this an interesting read:
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=13748.0

Sincerely,
Brendhan

The status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to rule it. Dr. Horrible

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 09:51:24 PM »
You are required to have a permit from the State Apiary Inspection Service ($35.00 per year).

When did that come about? The last time I talked to Paul Jackson he informed me of all the Texas Pest Control Board restrictions but didn't say a word about any permits to remove bees.
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 12:20:48 AM »
Never mind. I found it.

This first one tells about it
http://tais.tamu.edu/newsletter/pdf/bee_aware_jul07.pdf

This is the form/permit
http://tais.tamu.edu/forms/pdf/beeremovalapplication.pdf
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 12:28:33 AM »
But what I haven't found yet is....

Is this a one time thing?
Do you need a new one every year?
Do you need one for each removal?
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline genesbees

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 01:28:25 PM »
But what I haven't found yet is....

Is this a one time thing?
Do you need a new one every year?
Do you need one for each removal?

They actually send you a real permit signed by Paul with a seal and everything (although mine is just the Intra-State bee transportation permit with parts X'd out and the words "Bee Removal Only" added in several places), it authorizes you to transport the bees from the removals only out of the counties you designate on the application.  It is good for one fiscal year (Sept 1 through Aug 31) just like a Fishing License, so if you apply now you will still have to renew it Sept. 1st.  Just FYI, the Texas Pest Control Board was eliminated by the Legislature and its duties were dumped on the Dept. of Agriculture, so now you no longer need a Pest Control License to remove bees from occupied structures, only this permit.  You are still not allowed to use any insecticides or other professional Pest Control equipment during the course of a removal, only normal everyday beekeeping equipment.
"The UNKNOWN, huh?  That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2008, 02:48:47 PM »
And if you missed it. You are not suppose to use a bee-vac either.
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline genesbees

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 03:36:17 PM »
And if you missed it. You are not suppose to use a bee-vac either.

Actually, that is not accurate.  The press release says you can not use D-Vacs (a professional insect sampling device invented by a man named Detriech for the pest control business).  I think a lot of folks thought that was a typo and it meant bee-vacs.  The statute for beekeepers points to the Texas Agricultural code which lists general beekeeping equipment (including machines normally used in beekeeping) that can be used.  My homemade bee-vac was designed specifically for the purpose of clearing my supers of the last few bees before extraction.  So I will vigorously defend my right to use it in bee removals as allowed explicitly in the Texas Agricultural Code.
"The UNKNOWN, huh?  That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

Offline Jerrymac

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 6047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 07:21:29 PM »
Paul Jackson told me over the phone that the electronic devices mentioned included Bee-vacs. Perhaps that has also changed. I might call him again one of these days. But as I have said before, don't tell.
:rainbowflower:  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   :rainbowflower:

 :jerry:

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/

Offline genesbees

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Removal Services in an Africanised Area? Illegal?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 08:38:59 PM »
Paul Jackson told me over the phone that the electronic devices mentioned included Bee-vacs. Perhaps that has also changed. I might call him again one of these days. But as I have said before, don't tell.

I think it is basically his interpretation of the statute.  Quite frankly, I don't agree with it.  The statute states:

"does not use pesticides or electrical devices other than conventional bee smokers or equipment as defined by Section
131.001, Agriculture Code;
" (bold added for emphasis)

Section 131.001 of the Texas Agriculture code is pretty general and defines beekeeping equipment as:

"hives, supers, frames, veils, gloves, tools, machines, or other devices for the handling and manipulation of bees....."(again, bold added for emphasis)

I fail to see how a bee-vac would not qualify as a machine or other device for the handling and manipulation of bees.  I think that they would have a tough time upholding or enforcing the restriction based on common sense and the generality of the Agriculture code.  What reasonable logic can possibly explain a restriction on using a device that is designed specifically for you to use in the course of your normal beekeeping activities?  I can see electrical devices that are designed for the pest control industry as they could be more complex and require a certain amount of training for their proper use, but come on, a bee-vac?  Give me a break!  No way a citation based on that would hold up in court.  His comments make me wonder if he bothered to even read the section in the Ag code.
"The UNKNOWN, huh?  That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."