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Author Topic: Got a Call to do a cut out in a sofet today.  (Read 9021 times)
Angi_H
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« on: March 13, 2008, 01:31:12 AM »

Well today I was sick with getting over the flu last night. So hubby stayed home. I still was not feeling well when he left to go get my son from school toutring. And I got a call for a guy that rents out a house in the next town over. He got my number from the Ag extension office. His tenits of one month have been having trouble with some bees in a sofet. I went and took a look this afternoon and they are about 12 ft up in an  old brick house. Where the wood had rotted and made a hole. They were very active and was allot of bees coming and going. Hopfully they have not made it into the attic space. The owner who lives down in southern Ca will be gone but he is having one of the maintnance workers bring the big extension ladder out for me to use as well as the tennits have one I can use that way hubby and I can pull the slats at the same time. I wont know the extent till we pull the boards off. We are to try to save as much of the wood as we can as that wood it old and is very hard to match the trim and what not. I am excited to see what the hive will look like. I am having hubby build me some extra frames so I can take a total of 3 hive bodys. But it wont be much trouble for him to run home to pick up more. As it is only about 15 min away from my house. Unlike the last time it was 45m to hr away. Can not wait to see how big the hive is as well as there was allot of bees coming and going. The tenits have gotten stung because the hubby has been up there trying to smoke them and spray them with the hose. They have only lived there for a month. So now when hubby goes out there the bees seek him out and stings him.  Should be interesting thats the truth. Wish me luck. I will let you know more on friday.

Angi
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 09:07:56 AM »

Rule #1 Have Fun

Sure there is a lot of work involved but have fun with it.

Rule #2  Take pictures.

That endorses rule #1

Allocate a lot of time to do this. Don't rush.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 09:22:53 AM »

Angi, good luck, you are jumping into beekeeping head over heels, hee, hee.  Look at that, you have had two calls to get bees, and you don't even have your bees yet, good for you.  Have fun with it, take your time, have the best of this wonderful and great day, Cindi
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 11:17:19 PM »

Good luck and keep us posted, and yes take plenty of pics.


...JP
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 01:43:46 AM »

Hmmm Boy that was fast at moving it it is not even a removal yet. Nope not till tomorrow. Must just be me. NOt even sure if I will be able to do the removal. If they are in the attic it is no go.

Strange I sure say so.

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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 07:56:24 AM »

Hmmm Boy that was fast at moving it it is not even a removal yet.

Angi,

You seem to be upset once again by the operation of the forum.  Let me try to explain again so there is no confusion.  I know you are under the believe and said someone told you that posts aren't moved to the removal forum until they are complete.  As I indicated before, this is untrue.  I asked you who told you this, but did not get an answer.  I would like to straighten this matter out with whoever told you this so others don't get confused as well.

Any post in anyway related to removals should be posted in the removal forum from the get go.  The only time a moderator moves a post is when the originator posted in the wrong form from the start (or a topic has drastically changed direction and is split).  There is no normal process that has posts start in one forum and moved to another.  Our moderators are volunteers and that would require to much time and effort to keep up on.

This is no different than people posting ideas or desires to build equipment in the plans and equipment forum before they have acquired or build the equipment.  Or even folks who post in the general beekeeping forum before they have bees.

I hope you understand how the forum operates and don't think you are being singled out (many of JP's post have been moved as well for being improperly posted).  I also hope you will share with me who mislead you to believe posting removal posts in the general forum until they are complete, so I can straighten that matter out as well (you can PM me if you prefer).
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 12:43:27 PM »

Angie:

To stop this issue of POST PLACEMENT, I moved the removal forum to the TOP of the General section so it will be seen when anyone comes into General. This is going to have to be the only attempt to resolve this issue. Mods here are busy READING everything and don't need to repetitively move anyone's posts over and over again because they disagree on the placement or exposure of the posts.

I hope this helps, I'm not in favor of peeing contests in the forum, no one is showing any favortism toward anyone and this attempt to rectify this issue may not be permanent, but a worthy experiment. We all love to hear removal stories, see photos. etc., but we need structure or no one will find anything here.
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2008, 05:08:43 PM »

I always thought it was ok to post bee removal stories with pics in the general section and then they would be moved when the post was played out a bit. Didn't quite realize this was an issue, but I will hence forth post my stories in the bee removal section if that makes it easier on the volunteer mods. Sorry for any inconveniance on my part. The reason I did post in general is that the general section gets a lot of exposure, and I like exposing myself, well you know whadda mean. Get your mind outta the gutter will you? See ya'll in the removal section, and in general, for matters that need to be exposed there first, or do they?

...JP-ex bee removal in general poster.  Wink
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2008, 05:18:53 PM »

The reason I did post in general is that the general section gets a lot of exposure, and I like exposing myself, well you know whadda mean.




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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2008, 06:10:55 PM »

JP

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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 07:19:32 PM »

Just make sure there is no overexposures on this topic guys!!
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JP
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 09:41:40 PM »

Heehee, haw, haw, heehee.


...JP
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2008, 10:03:40 PM »

What section is it again where we expose ourselves???
hahahahahhahahahha!
I have a whole bunch of pics for that one... My wife is so sneaky with that camera..
I know, I know, I will go sit in the corner and think about what I said....
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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 11:49:49 PM »

Frantz, you are bad!!!  Go and sit in that corner, hee, hee, corners are good places, have a wonderful and beautiful day, Cindi
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2008, 02:24:23 AM »

Ok here are the pictures. Feels like there was about 80lbs of honey we pulled from the hive and still left them some. They had ventured into the attic which was not fun. They filled up to med supers. We had to toss allot of brood in sections that did not fit width wise and wound up with little sections not able to attach. For which I feel really really bad about it. After the first box of bees and brood looks like we had the queen as they stayed in the box and they were fanning there little butts in the air. I left them with honey and pollen for which  they had allot of as well. Man that stuff is hard to cut through. They had a few sections of comb that had crystalized honey but not much. And wonderful tasting and lots of new comb. I saw a couple of empty swarm cells that were old. So that have swarmed before. I had took 3 med supers and wound up with 2 frames of drone brood which they were not able to keep warm so today after we went back out and got the last of the cluster and combined them into there hive I tossed them. As they were very very cold and no bees around them. I knew since they were only 2 combs there that it was more then likely not going to make it. I hated loosing all sorts of brood with comb that had to be tossed because it wouldnt fit in small sections. We had several frames with brood hatching as well. Oh and tons of drones. Big ole fuzzy drones. My kids were playing with them on the ground. Still not a sting once. Hubby one time on his thumb because he forgot to put his other gloves on. Why when you want to get stung you dont. When they got home last night I left them alone. And today when I got back with the nuc with more from there hive it was eve and cool so they were not going any where. I added the other bees and removed those 2 brood and made it 2 med supers full. Added a pollen patty just in case of little stores and gave them sugar syrup and I will let them be for how long I am not sure. But I did notice that they had already built bridge comb between some of the frames. As I could only fit 9 in the box because of the way the comb was twisted. Oh and some of the honey comb looked like an x with a big section in the middle that one I almost dropped it was so heavy and a pain to try to cut out of there. Ok here are the pictures. Forgot to take some of the hive. I will when I go into it in how ever many days I should leave them alone. Oh and there was fresh eggs as well as varrious stages of brood.


















Here they are start to finnish. And about the post thing I dont remember but I was always seeing Jps and others posts stay there for days on end. And I always forget to go all the way to the top to go to the removal section as it is not in the main page of links.  It was not easy since it was not in site with all of the other board topics in the row. I need to use the KISS system otherwise half will not get read. I would not know how to do a cutout if all of them went right to the removal section as it took me a long time before I found out that the removal section was posts and not just a list of areas and who did them. Never knew there was posts there and that was where they went. I am still getting over the flu and then did this. I am tired hurting and cranky most nights because of the stuped dr not being there to refill my pain meds. I need my SOMA> I hurt all over after these last 2 days up a ladder. My feet and leggs and back is killing me. Now I have to crush and strain 80lbs of honey.

Angi
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2008, 06:50:45 AM »

Great job on the cutout!!
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2008, 08:54:40 AM »

Yes great job. That was a huge amount of comb and bees and what a bonus of honey. Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2008, 08:59:46 AM »

Angi. I'm very happy you were able to do that cut-out, excellent job! That is one beautiful and healthy looking hive. That is great ya'll were able to get all of that honey!

A ginzsu knife works great for cutting comb, wish I still had mine. You know the ones they advertise, that can cut through cement and are still sharp after that, to cut a tomato slice, so thin you can see through it?

One little tip if you don't mind me saying. When you remove board sections, try and make your cuts right on the midline of joists or studs if its a wall, or adjacent to these members, so when the large sections are put back, they can be easily nailed right back in place. Hope you don't mind me pointing this out, not trying to blemish your fantastic post, trust me.

Angi, in reading your post, you sound like you have been doing removals for yrs! You got it down girl, you go! I would agree that it did seem like you got the queen.

Sometimes you don't have to see her to know you got her, because the bees will, at least the vast majority will congregate where she is. If you have a mass of bees still in a wall or ceiling, etc... it usually means you didn't get her.

Fantastic job!

...JP
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2008, 09:01:23 AM »

A great job.

Keep an eye on the hive.

Look at all the wisdom you gained for the next one.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2008, 10:19:24 AM »

Angi, wow!!!  A job that you have taken on, you passed with flyin' colours, beautiful and wonderful, yeah!!  I still think you are nuts (and so is everyone else doing this stuff).  I wil only think that I will stick to catching swarms hangin' off trees.  I take my hat off to you all that perform these staggaring cutouts.

Angi, I am so sorry that you are just getting over the flu and you went and still did this huge amount of work. I wish you health was better, and that you pain meds were being filled properly. I do not know what chronic pain is, I experience pain when I hurt myself, or my back is a little bit tired, but I have no clue what continual pain must be like.  I have nothing to compare to.  I hear of people all the time here with their ailments and pain, I thank my lucky stars when I read of these things that I don't have any, I am so grateful for that.  Pain is awful.

So, Angi, carry on.....there is no great hurry to do the crush and strain.  Take your time, honestly, let yourself heal for awhile first.  Then pick a good day when you can work like a dog to get this chore done.  Take your time, really, there is not a hurry in the world with this part of the joy of the cutout.

The pictures were lovely and for a first time doing this type of work, you performed like an Ace, excellent, I take my hat off to you girl, and go, girl, go!!!!  You made me proud of you!!!  Have the most beautiful and wonderful day, take care of yourself and health.  Cindi

PS, it was fun to hear of how your children were enthralled playing with the drones, your children must be happy their Mom did a good job too!!!!
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2008, 10:54:10 PM »

Do yall have to put the walls and ceilings back together in your cutouts, or do you leave this part for a carpenter?
your friend,
john
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2008, 10:55:26 PM »

Homeowner is responsible for all repairs.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2008, 10:58:23 PM »

Do yall have to put the walls and ceilings back together in your cutouts, or do you leave this part for a carpenter?
your friend,
john

I do most all repairs John.

...JP
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2008, 11:15:23 PM »

The owner of the house will repair. My hubby did the cuts. The nails were nailed in sideways at an angle and for the life of us we could not get them out. And we could not even see where the nails were to even try to figure out where the boards were. We pried up the trim and all we could see was comb. I even had to go up into the attic as we herd bees the second day. It was just a very small cluster though. And no queen in there. Went out and looked at the hive today did not open them up but they are coming and going like gang busters. I will pick a day in a few days to go in and check on them and see if I can move out empty comb that had brood hatching and replace it with foundation. I am also going to look for the queen. There was eggs in that mess I put back so hopefully if not they will just make one.  If not I will see if anyone has one for sale now. If not hopefully they can wait till the 30th when I go and pick up my packages. As he sales queens as well. When I did open up the hive the next day they had already started repairs and building bridge comb and had tons of bees in there. So I am hopeful. They looked like they had been there longer for a year though. They were also a ton of uncapped necter in the hive.   I am not sure where they were getting it but they had allot. Depending on how they look I might give them the 3rd box. Becuase that other comb was a mess and I want to replace it as soon as I can it is so unstable and twisted in those frames.

Angi
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2008, 11:21:13 PM »

Angi, that hive looks like its pushing 2- 2 and a 1/2 yrs being there to me. Great job with the removal! Thanks for the pics. You must be salivating for the next one huh?

...JP
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2008, 01:03:36 AM »

well went out and opend the girls up to take a look. Still lots of drones in there. They are filling up empty holes with nector and syrup. They are eating on the pollen patty I placed in there and they are bringing in pollen as well. They have fastened down all of the comb to the frames and were building little comb to add nector to. I noticed they had little place for the queen to lay but saw what looked like fresh eggs. Still did not see the queen. Hoping to mark her if I do. I took 2 frames of hatching brood out of the bottom box and placed them in the new box and added 2 frames of foundation in the middle. I also took one frame of hatching brood out of the second box and placed it in the middle next to the other two on the top. And placed a frame of empty foundation in there as well. In the top box are the 3 frames of hatching brood some almost all the way out. They are in the middle of the box. And the rest is foundation.  All looked well. I removed some bridge comb and there is still only 9 frames in there as the way the comb was twisted I could not fit the other one in there. the top box has 10 in it though. I am hoping to slowly get them out of the comb and rubber bands and into foundation for them to draw out. So far all is well with them. I would have been happy to see the queen. BUt feel better now that they will have a little room to draw out and allow the queen more room to lay.

Angi
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2008, 10:26:15 AM »

people will disagree no doubt, but i think marking the queen is over-rated.  you either have a good queen or you don't and marking makes no difference.  i can see where a queen breeder or someone selling bees might want them marked, but for the backyard beekeeper, i just don't see that the value outweighs the risk.

that was a really nice piece of work you did, and ambitious for your first go.  you should be proud of yourself!
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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2008, 10:32:19 AM »

people will disagree no doubt, but i think marking the queen is over-rated.  you either have a good queen or you don't and marking makes no difference.  i can see where a queen breeder or someone selling bees might want them marked, but for the backyard beekeeper, i just don't see that the value outweighs the risk.

that was a really nice piece of work you did, and ambitious for your first go.  you should be proud of yourself!

Where's the fun in finding the queen everytime you go in? I don't mark.

...JP
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2008, 08:20:47 AM »

I don't know, I am seriously considering marking all my queens.  I think that there are many times when I go into the colonies that I need to find the queen quickly so I know where she is that I don't harm her.  Quite often when I am doing manipulations within the colony when I find the frame that the queen is on, I place that frame with her on it into a safe place, like a nuc that I keep nearby.  So my thoughts on queen marking are heading more toward being an important part of keeping this most important part of the colony safe and sound. Have a beautifully great and wonderful day, love this great planet we all share.  Cindi
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2008, 08:43:53 AM »

people will disagree no doubt, but i think marking the queen is over-rated.  you either have a good queen or you don't and marking makes no difference.

Your right, it is a personal preference. 

But after getting burnt a few times by failing supercedure queen in the late Fall (seems like that is when they like to fail) when no quality replacement queens where available,  I now take quite comfort in knowing my quality raised and mated queen is still heading up my colonies going into the winter.

Some people swear by supercedure queens too,  but I'm not one of those either.   If the mother doesn't muster up to what the bees want,  what are the chances that her offspring will.   

Queen issues always come at the most inconvenient/challenging times and usually cause set back in a hive.  Just the headaches I've eliminated dealing with that is worth it to me.   Never under estimate the value of a well raised and mated queen.  Since I've started managing my queens,  I have never looked back.

I think we can all agree though that the strength and vigor of a hive is directly related to the  queen,  so why would your want to role the dice and risk the whole hive on an unknown queen.

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, i just don't see that the value outweighs the risk.
risks?
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reinbeau
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2008, 07:41:16 PM »

I've heard more than a few experienced beeks say the marked queens are more often superseded than unmarked.
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2008, 07:45:39 PM »

I've heard more than a few experienced beeks say the marked queens are more often superseded than unmarked.
I don't think that happens much just because of marking. I've never had that problem even when marking them myself. If they are damaged trying to mark them then that may happen.
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2008, 09:53:15 PM »

Awesome cut out and great photos !
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2008, 10:59:34 PM »

Thanks Steve. Where is Colbert Ok? My dad lives in Broken Arrow OK.

Angi
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kathyp
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« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2008, 11:20:30 PM »

the risk of harming the queen while trying to catch/mark her, especially when you don't have much experience and don't have extra frames of eggs about.  marking is fine.  maybe even educational.  probably helps when you have a lot of hives to keep track of.  just not a must in hobby beekeeping i don't think.
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« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2008, 11:35:36 PM »

Kathy, I agree with you about harming the queen if one doesn't have experience in catching/handling bees.  When I took one of the courses at the Honeybee Centre in Surrey, one part of the course was about marking the queens.  We practised on drones, really not that hard.  I have caught so many honeybees during the past couple of years using them for apitherapy on my family members, that I feel quite confident about catching and marking a queen.  I also have the luxury of having quite small fingers so it is even more simple.  Being such a freak about weeds in my gardens, and having sowed millions of tiny seeds throughout my horticultural background as well, I have become extremely adept at minuscule (how the heck do you spell that darn word anyways? hee, hee) motions with my fingertips.  I don't think that I would harm any queens.  So, to that end, I think I will be OK.  If I do harm a queen, then I will just have to suck that up as another lesson learned and be even more careful.  Beautiful day in this beautiful life.  Cindi
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2008, 10:15:09 PM »

Hi Angi_h

We are just north of denison and Sherman Texas not far from Durant oklahoma.
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Scott Derrick
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2008, 09:24:28 PM »

Angie,

Love the pictures! Thanks so very much for taking the time to let us peer into your world. Removals are very exciting and tiring at the same time. I really enjoy them but I HATE being up high on ladders. I'm not good with heights.

Cheers!
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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2008, 03:56:07 PM »

Angie,

I can fully relate to those large removals.  Especially those that have been established for several years.  They are a tremendous amount of work and I must say you have presented a Job well done here.  One needs to be a carpentry too.  And understand the inner structure of how houses are joined together inside and out.

I have removed several like this.   Got one coming up in the next few days that is a pretty large swarm that has settled in a high school baseball pressbox.  They are entering just underneith the right hand bottom corner of the second story door frame.  From there they are entering into the floor joint.  I am sure they are in the wall also on the 1st level that is a snack bar.   The bees have been there at least for 3 years.  The bees are playing beesball too.
They seem to be fitting right in with the oncoming baseball season.

Angie have you ever used a bee vacuum ?   They are very helpful sometimes when you have a hard time finding the queen. But, in all cases try to find the queen.  But , the bee vacuum saves alot of time.  Just besure those bees are getting enough air and the pressure of the suction is balanced out.

I am down south, and this year has been a terrific year for swarms.
Big swarms too.. Love the bees....what a blessing.  Just wish more folks would take a good look at this marvel of God's creation.

No Bees, No large crops, food will dwindle along with an already failing eco-system.   Would you believe that in China they have begun pollination by human hand in places that honeybees no longer exist?  Food could get very expensive.  And with the economy dipping....Hang in there folks.. 

Have you hugged your bees today?
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Love to share swarm catching tales.Like finding those queens in established swarms in houses that have been there for at least two years or more.

Blessings In Christ Love to you,

            Buzza Shuck
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2008, 12:40:50 PM »

BuzzaShuck.  Welcome to our forum, you have found THE place to share experiences, and if you need to ask questions, we are but a keystroke away.  Sounds like you are going to have an interesting event occur with the bees in the baseball press box.  When you have completed the task, don't forget to tell us about the experience, we are a curious (and nosey too, me that is) crew, and we love to hear (and if you get pictures, even better) and see what other beekeepers are up to.  Welcome again, enjoy your stay with us.  Have a wonderful, awesome day, love our life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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