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Author Topic: woosh....down we go.....  (Read 1444 times)
kathyp
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« on: March 07, 2008, 11:44:54 AM »

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL

all of my california family home schools.  all of the children consistently test well above the state requirements.  i realize this is not the case with all home school families. quality of education is not the question.  if it were, we'd be shutting down many, many, public schools.  the question is, how close to USSR type controls on our families are we willing to go because "it's for the good of the children"?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 11:55:14 AM »

One bad apple so you toss the whole bunch.  This country is truly wooshing down the chute  rolleyes

If public schools were truly teaching and hadn't turned into indoctrination camps maybe the home schooling movement wouldn't have so much participation (I'm not against it, I just think kids do better with the exposure to other kids and thinking - logical, good thinking, not the crap they push on a daily basis in public schools!).  I hope they all fight like h-e-double hockey sticks to get this ruling overturned.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 01:27:24 PM »

I wonder that they got a quote from a teachers union spokesperson.  That gives me bad vibes in a story like this.
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Rick
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 01:42:23 PM »

OOh, that article made me all "bristly"...our children are not getting the education they need.  Here in WA with the no child left behind crap they lower the standards so of course no one is behind.  They spend more time drilling the kids how to take the WASL than they do teaching em what they need to know to hope to be successful in whatever they may choose to do!! My daughter did go to public school but I also agumented it every chance I got.  (she is in college now 3.9 gpa)I remember getting a call cause she had told the teacher that she was wasting my Mom's tax dollars and her time, if she was going to be stuck in school all day by golly they had better teach her something!  Parents aren't going to have any rights left soon....it scares me.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 02:52:34 PM »

Quote
"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said......

I read something the other day where some one asked a scout troop where our rights came from. Most all the scouts said from men dressed in black. (Need to find that again)

I never understood that "no constitutional right" bit.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

That doesn't say " that they are endowed by their Creator with certain Constitutional Rights.

Quote
Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

What  huh  huh  huh
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Ken
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 05:31:57 PM »

Public education was not in the Constitution either.I think that fell under states rights,and each state has it's own charter and Constitution. Sadly ,the states have given up the power to educate to the feds. Just another step in the serious mistakes we make in handing control of our lives to someone else.
  The teachers unions have every reason to be afraid. If a home schooled kid comes out brighter,it shows the need is not more money, but qualified teachers.
  This is why they are afraid of merit pay,because so many could lose their jobs without protection from the union.
  Heck in our state the teachers union lost money in the market with the pension funds and had the galll to ask the taxpayers to make up what they lost,and succeeded.Bet they were going to give back the earnings if it was above what was needed!!
   All this extra money spent,and probably not one better grade for it!!



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Jerrymac
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 05:44:40 PM »

Here is some more stuff for you.

Dear HSLDA Members and Friends:

In what could be one of the most important homeschooling related
broadcasts in 25 years, James Dobson interviews HSLDA Chairman
Michael
Farris on the developing situation in California.

We encourage all homeschoolers to listen to this broadcast, and ask
you to forward this information to anyone who is concerned about
homeschool freedom, parental rights and the direction of our courts.

Broadcast: Focus on the Family daily radio broadcast with Dr. James
Dobson.

Program Title: California's Threat to Homeschooling Families.

Airdate: Friday, March 7, 2008.

Since the broadcast is aired on stations across the country at
different times, please visit ----
http://listen. family.org/ findastation/ and search for "Daily Focus
on
the Family Broadcast" to find the station that covers your area.

You can help stop this threat to homeschooling by signing an online
petition to depublish the Court of Appeal opinion at
http://hslda. org/elink. asp?ID=4831

Sincerely,

Ian Slatter
Director of Media Relations
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 06:01:23 PM »

And something else

Subject: [HSC List] Hype about the case and plea to remain calm

I have been astonished about the hype about this case. So many have
been
making sensational claims that parents will be criminally prosecuted,
etc.

Please rest assured about a number of things. First, the law, other
than this
court's interpretation, hasn't changed. Parents involved in a truancy
prosecution might face criminal charges, but only after a rather
lengthy series
of hearings and court orders, and only if the parents failed to
comply with the
orders. It would be a criminal contempt charge, which isn't nothing
but doesn't
land you in Pelican Bay.

We have never known conscientious parents ever to be prosecuted under
truancy
laws to the point of contempt charges. It's highly unlikely.

The media also appear to be saying that no one can teach their
children
without a credential. I am not certain that the holding is that
broad, and I
also doubt it would survive legal challenge.

The holding really applied to private ISPs (there are persistent
mistatements,
that began with fact statements in the case, that the family was
enrolled in a
charter. Obviously a school with the name "Christian" in it wouldn't
be a public
charter. It was a private ISP). It could be read by someone reading
broadly as
applying to any situation where the child is not continuously in the
presence of
a credentialed teacher.

The court started on a very slippery path of appearing to think that
some
situations were OK and others weren't, effectively trying to enact an
entire
code of regulations for governing this situation from the bench. He
hasn't been
given the constitutional authority, of course, to do this.

How do we get rid of this case?

There are a number of paths. One is seeking actual review by the
Supreme
Court. HSC and at least several of the other major groups' legal
teams aren't in
favor of that. Even if you could get the court to accept your
petition (they
only take 3-5% of cases), the chances that it will be decided the way
you want
aren't real good. It's a very dangerous road to take, because if the
Supreme
Court were to affirm the appellate court ruling on either of the main
points
(constitutional or statutory), there aren't many options left. The
constitutional argument, of course, could be appealed to the US
Supreme Court,
but the statutory case about the proper interpretation of the
California
Education Code could not. California Supreme Court is the last stop
on that
road. If that happens, then you have two bad choices that I'll
discuss below.

There is another much easier choice, and it's the one we want, as
well as the
one being trumpeted in the HSLDA petition. You ask the California
Supreme Court
to depublish the opinion, or, in other words, have them say that
while this
might have been the right result in this particular case involving
this
particular set of facts, the court finds that the reach of the
opinion is
overbroad and should not become law for the entire state. That is the
choice we
all (meaning HSC and, I believe, the other groups) want.

You get this by filing a letter with the Supreme Court in compliance
with the
applicable rules of court. While anyone can file one by stating their
interest,
we DO NOT think it is an appropriate use of grassroots activism. We
DO NOT want
every HSC member or HSLDA member or grandmother or irate citizen
dashing off
their letters to the Supreme Court. There are sober, measured, legal
arguments
to make about why depublication is appropriate, and those arguments
are made
after researching the applicable standards, etc. The Supreme Court
will not be
swayed positively by public outcry. In fact, it could backfire, and
backfire
badly.

If the Supreme Court affirms on the statutory points, then the two
bad choices
are to either seek legislation or to do nothing and hope that a
further case is
brought that can involve a better set of facts and better explanation
of the
issues (and reaching a better result). Both are very dangerous.
Legislation
isn't the answer because of the extraordinary strength of the
teachers' union.
It is unlikely we will see any legislation ultimately pass that gives
us the
freedom we have today. And the second choice is dangerous. I know
lots of
families that would make terrific test case defendants -- they're
conscientious,
they actually get their kids educated, they follow the laws. But we
don't get to
pick who the family is. As a friend of mine said, we couldn't have
gotten a
worse set of facts for this case if we had a contest.

We are trying to get one or more of the fanciest law firms in the
state to
help us on taking the fangs out of this case. We know what we're
doing. Please
let us do our jobs.

I would be personally, professionally, and, as a representative of
HSC,
globally grateful if everyone on this list would calm down and ask
others to
calm down. Specifically, I would ask people:

a. Not to write to the Supreme Court or any court.

b. Not to talk to their legislators or make any public statements
about a need
for legislation.

c. Tell their neighbors, friends, lists, groups both of the above and
to
educate them about the choices available and about how panic isn't
necessary,
marches on Sacramento aren't necessary, etc.

I wish this were the type of situation where we could put the fury,
passion
and energy of the members of this list to good use. Trust me, if we
end up
having to go the legislative route, we will have that situation at
some points.
But this isn't that type of situation, and too many folks stirring
things up
hurts instead of helps.

Thanks for listening.

Debbie Schwarzer
HSC Legal Team Co-chair
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 10:24:21 PM »

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/INCHVG0SD.DTL&type=politics

"Every California child deserves a quality education and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," the governor said in a statement. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts and if the courts don't protect parents' rights then, as elected officials, we will."
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 12:25:09 AM »

that home school legal defense group is pretty good.  they ought to have a shot at this before irate home schooling parents take up arms  smiley.  there are so many home schoolers in California, and most are under public school umbrellas by way of charter schools, or in some other accredited program.  they are very active together and organized. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 11:17:19 AM »

Here is the radio broadcast if you couldn't find it.....

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Focus_on_the_Family/
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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