Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 31, 2014, 11:55:18 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Scorching the insides of old boxes  (Read 2712 times)
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« on: February 26, 2008, 11:45:37 PM »

In this post:  http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=7245.msg43875#msg43875
Michael Bush says that when he gets old equipment from someone he trusts, he uses it.  No mention of torching.  There have been numerous posts about torching the insides of old equipment.

I am mentoring a Girl Scout troop who are developing a bee badge for the state of Georgia.  They don't have much money and used most of their funds ordering a nuc of bees.  I have some old equipment from a friend who kept bees in it 30 years ago.  He said that some of his hives starved and the other ones the bees died.  He didn't know why they died but said a few bees were walking around on the ground like they were dizzy and then he discovered that the whole hive died. 

I threw away all of the old frames and thought I would scorch the insides of the boxes, but I don't exactly know what that means.  I own a propane torch that I bought for this purpose, but what I need to know is how scorched is scorched?  I've never done this before and have no idea but as always I am learning as I go in this beekeeping world. 
  • Do I pass the flame over every inch of the box?
  • Should it look charred and black?
  • How dangerous is this process?
  • Should one wear safety goggles?
   

Linda T preparing to be an arsonist in Atlanta
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
metzelplex
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 41


Location: Northern california


« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 02:45:04 AM »

    Hello Tillie,everybody probably has their own ideas about torching boxes what I do is scrape the supers clean and make sure that I get all the wax off that I can then I take a propane weed burning torch like home depot or lowes has for sale and run it over every inch of the inside of the super  especially the corners and up on top where the frames hang from and I do it till the wood just starts to change color to a real light tan it's my understanding that foulbrood is just on the surface of the wood so if the wood just starts to change color from the heat then anything on the surface is already dead from the heat make sure you get the corners and anyplace that wax builds up real good I will set up about 10 boxes at a time I'll  scrape then I'll scorch then I'll sand the sanding probably isn't necessary but I sand off the surface anyway wear any saftey goggles or a face shield that you have and gloves its really quite safe just be careful your working with fire  make sure that what ever you used to scrape out the boxes also gets some heat to kill any spores that may have gotten on it from the scraping  well I can't think of anything else hope this helps a little bit .   metzelplex
Logged
beeginner
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 107


Location: Arkansas Mountain View

The swarm I hived


« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 03:01:34 AM »

All my stuff is from the 70's!! and 80s.   I bought them from a old man and he did have efb at one time!!  So I calld my friend the state inspecter that lives  3 miles from me and he said just scrape off all you can and then just get a wallmart torch and just run the flame over the boxes. Well when I do it the inside are all most black! So I know ever thing is dead! But I used a WELDING TORCH!!!!  and im still useing the old frames! no problem what so ever! Even Ed state bee man has some of my frames in his hives from splits!
Logged
randydrivesabus
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1072

Location: Indian Valley, VA


« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 05:45:32 AM »

i've never done this but i would use a propane torch with the head that spreads the flame out and then just brown the wood a little.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 07:25:14 AM »

The standard method is to stack them up with the bottom box flat on the ground with no air leaks, and a telescopic cover handy.  Then you pour some diesel on some newspapers and put them in the middle and light them.  When you have a pretty good fire going you put the lid on to put out the fire.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 07:48:48 AM »

 

Quote
pour some diesel on some newspapers and put them in the middle and light them.  When you have a pretty good fire going you put the lid on to put out the fire.

I'll bet I can't do that in the city.  Maybe I'll take these up to the mountains and scorch them there.....

Linda T the arsonist
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 08:32:06 AM »

Quote
pour some diesel on some newspapers and put them in the middle and light them.  When you have a pretty good fire going you put the lid on to put out the fire.

And if you forget to put the lid on it, then you can be guaranteed that there isn't any disease left  rolleyes
Logged

Rick
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 08:41:04 AM »

Quote
a propane torch with the head that spreads the flame out

The propane torch I bought has that kind of head and is small enough not to intimidate me - gosh beekeeping takes me into new areas every day - and I am beginning year three - I hope it will continue to be this way - new stuff to learn and try all the time.

Linda T preparing for arson in Atlanta
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Bennettoid
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 352


Location: Ocean City, Maryland, USA


« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 10:20:52 AM »

i've never done this but i would use a propane torch with the head that spreads the flame out and then just brown the wood a little.

You can get a spreader for the torch that widens the flame very cheaply. This is what was recommended to me and what I use on all my used equipment.
Logged

annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5311


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 12:14:30 PM »

Linda

I know that feeling. I have a torch that I use to get rid of the creosote buildup in the smoker. It is so much fun turning on that torch and burning up that crude.  At first I was so frightened to use the torch,thinking it might blow up in my face, but now I am a pro at this.

Have fun
Annette
Logged
poka-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1651


Location: buckley wa

I am NEVER bored!!


WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 12:48:58 PM »

OOhh, that sounds like fun!  I have one of those torches you hook up to a 5lb propane tank for weeds..it's great to start the burnpile with..putting kero or deisel in a box sounds fun too though...hmmm theres stuff in the barn I want to get rid of to make room for my bee stuff..guess our Sat nite entertainment is all set! Our family loves fire... evil
Logged

I'm covered in Beeesssss!  Eddie Izzard
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 01:09:43 PM »

I used a method similar to Michael's, less the diesel.    I just stack them 5/6 feet high and crumble some newspaper inside and lite it.   It doesn't take long for the propolis and wax to catch on fire and start burning the wood.   Once you get a good fire just throw the cover on to put out.   It is really quite quick and the flames are mostly hidden in the boxes so it is not a real eye catcher for the neighbors.   The problem I see in using a torch, is not just the exorbitant about of time it would take to do them individually, but chances are you will inevitably miss some crack or clevis. Also how do you keep putting the fire out to continue to a new area.  It is more than just turning the wood black,  you want it to burn.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Bennettoid
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 352


Location: Ocean City, Maryland, USA


« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2008, 03:13:05 PM »

Also how do you keep putting the fire out to continue to a new area.  It is more than just turning the wood black,  you want it to burn.

No, you don't have to actually burn the wood. Your killing germs with the heat of the torch. Yes, you have to pay close attention to cracks and crevices and joints, but using your method you can miss those spots as well, and actually burning the wood instead of scorching it causes unnecessary damage. At least with the torch you can control where the heat goes.
Logged

buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5424


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 05:23:53 PM »

Just a thought here,
I think when preparing wooden barrels for wine or other fermentables,they burn sulfur inside to kill any and all yeasts microbes etc. Would this not kill spores also??
Just wondering,does any one know??
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2008, 06:33:24 PM »

>Would this not kill spores also??

I don't know.  AFB spores are VERY virulent.  It takes a lot of heat to kill them.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
randydrivesabus
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1072

Location: Indian Valley, VA


« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2008, 07:49:52 PM »

so following along with that....what is the temperature required to kill them? and i think you can use bleach instead. not as exciting though.
Logged
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2008, 10:05:00 PM »

Wouldn't burning diesel leave some unwanted carcinogenic residue? 
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2008, 11:24:35 PM »

Burn until the grain of the wood rises.  The smaller, darker, line of the grain will rise as it is burned since the softer, lighter colored wood burns more easily.  Once its a little wavy it should be fine.  The bees seem to prefer this type of wood for some reason.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Cass Cohenour
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60


Location: Boone County, West Virginia


« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2008, 12:33:52 AM »

There is description on my blog about how and why I torch the inside of hive bodies. If you don't feel like reading the entire post read the second to last paragraph.

http://wvbeekeeper.blogspot.com/2008/01/repairing-hive-bodies.html
Logged
Cindi
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 9827

Location: Grindrod, B.C. Canada


« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 10:09:33 AM »

Jody, oh the joys of living in the Pacific North West.  I presume that you have fairly soggy weather too, like me.  Our firepit is a great source of weekend marshmallow and weenie roasts too in the spring (and summer too).  We don't have fear of burning up the forests here because we are such a moist climate.  Late summer we don't light the firepit though, there are chances of sparks as the summer has dried the trees so much, though.  Have a beautiful and wonderful great day, Cindi

Logged

There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Dick Allen
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 163

Location: Anchorage


« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2008, 11:54:49 AM »

This has been posted here a couple of times before. It comes from the Sep/Oct 2003 newsletter put out by Eric Mussen of the University of California at Davis:

“Dr. Steve Pernal, who works in one of the last government funded bee research facilities in Beaverlodge, Alberta, Canada, arrived at his job when American foulbrood (AFB) was really causing problems for some commercial beekeepers.

 He first looked at possible ways to decontaminate woodenware from hives containing dead larvae, scale, and contaminated food stores.

 1. Scorching and Virkon S were about 84% effective.

 2. Powered water was 81% effective.

 3. Scrubbing was 77% effective.

 4. Steam and lye were nearly 100% effective, as is irradiation.”

 
Notice there isn’t a huge difference in any of the methods, especially between scorching and using powered water.

 Here’s some of his past newsletters for anyone interested.

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/news.cfm
Logged
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2008, 03:33:27 PM »

By way of follow-up, I managed to scorch the boxes using a propane torch - the hardest part - don't laugh - was trying to get the cap off of the propane bottle so I could attach the flame device. 

FINALLY with a pair of pliers I managed to get it off and flame away.  It was actually kind of fun - so cool to watch the grain "rise" as Brian described....





Linda T, the arsonist lurking in Atlanta
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2008, 05:25:48 PM »

i've read that direct flame kills the spores instantly, so i don't know if you really have to darken the wood, although majority does it this way, also, better safe than sorrow.
anyway...buzzbee got my attention, sulphur sticks....this is solely from my head but...spores are technicly not really alive and have a hardy "skin" (couldn't find the term). but this is just the first thing that poped to my mind, it most probably isn't true.
now, they cook wax at 120 °C for 20 minutes.....

Job well done Tillie!
Logged
Hayesbo
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 93


Location: North West Georgia, USA

My son. Almost 6 and loves helping me w/the bees


« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2008, 09:40:41 PM »

Spores have "skin"    Sort of, I don't know the term either, it has been too long since my Surgical Tech training.

Surgical instruments are steam under pressure and heat sterilized. The steam/pressure is used to saturate, penetrate and crack open the spores. If I could find a way, I would steam my hives with pressure. I don't know about the lye though, how is it used? guess i need to go back and read the notes.


Steve
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.756 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page Today at 11:37:52 AM