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Author Topic: Oxalic Acid Varroa Control  (Read 838 times)
RHBee
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« on: March 01, 2014, 07:02:28 AM »

As many members point out OA is not an approved method for Varroa control in the USA. I simply would like to ask if someone could please explain why?  Europe has some of the strictest food purity laws in the world. European beekeepers have been battling varroa longer than US beekeepers. I don't understand why an effective,  inexpensive treatment would be prohibited. I'm one of those that just cause they say so is not an adequate explanation.
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Ray
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 07:52:35 AM »

Because it costs money to get it approved,and with it readily available already someone cannot profit by spending to get it approved.
It's not prohibited,just not approved. for what it's worth, powdered sugar is not "approved" either.
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edward
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 07:55:05 AM »

One thing you need to bee successfull with oa is a broodless period

If there is brood the mites hide and multiply.

Might work is some parts in the North ,but maybee not in the South.

mvh Edward
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edward
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 07:58:35 AM »

Because it costs money to get it approved,and with it readily available already someone cannot profit by spending to get it approved.
It's not prohibited,just not approved. for what it's worth, powdered sugar is not "approved" either.

Why doesn't your beekeeping society take charge and push the agenda for the benefit of beekeeping members?


mvh Edward  tongue
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gmcharlie
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 12:44:16 PM »

ACtualy one of them is... can't recall which one,  but they did file the paperwork.

Problem is there is no money to be made on OA sales.   its cheap,  dirt cheap,  no room for markup.  might be a little bit in equipment but thats its.  so no one to push for testing data,
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Jim 134
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 03:24:11 PM »

    I remember when this product (Certan) was sold in USA and work very well for Wax Moth that.The license ran out and about a 1985 it cost more to renew the license than they would have made on the product Bacillus Thuringiensis and you that this in the formalist which a cheap And work as well.  If I know one place you buy this and it is in Canada

 http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=18
  

B401 previously known as Certan is the only known preventive against Wax Moth. A form of BT or Bacillus Thuringiensis formulated to kill the larvae when it tries to feed on the comb. Use 1-19 water in a pressure sprayer will treat 120 frames in storage. Will not harm you, honey or the bees. Well worth the expense to keep those valuable frames free of damage.
Not for sale in Canada

IMHO......
  There is there is no money to be made on these chemicals.

(Oxalic Acid or Bacillus Thuringiensis)
  



                BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 03:47:09 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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alfred
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 08:40:49 PM »

I have a vaporizer and I have used it in my hives. If asked I usually say that I am bleaching my woodenware. I had someone really give me a hard time about using it, After an argument about this I decided to look into it a little further. So I wrote to the EPA Pesticides Department about of label use of Oxalic Acid. Here are the responses they gave me:

=======================================================================

Ticket #:   23002-490311
Date Created:   2/17/2014 09:09 PM EST
Subject:   Oxalic Acid for varroa mite
Question:   I am trying to find out about using Oxalic Acid for the treatment of Varroa Mite in Honey Bee colonies. I understand that it is used safely and effectively in most of the world for controlling varroa mite. I have been told that it is illegal to use in the US. I have been unable to find anyone who can produce any actual code or law to such effect. Can you provide me with more information?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
2/21/2014 5:10 PM EST Response Sent  Pesticides17
Thank you for writing to ask the Environmental Protection Agency about oxalic acid for varroa mite control in honey bee hives. I apologize for the delay in responding.
 Federal law requires that before selling or distributing a pesticide in the United States, a person or company must obtain registration, or license, from the EPA. Oxalic acid was previously registered by the EPA for other uses (e.g. a toilet bowl cleaner and disinfectant), and in 1992 the agency determined that oxalic acid was eligible to continue being registered. At that time, there were five EPA-registered products containing oxalic acid. Since that time, all of the manufacturers voluntarily cancelled their registrations. Currently, there are no federally registered products containing oxalic acid as an active ingredient, so it would violate both federal and state laws to manufacture, distribute or sell pesticide products containing oxalic acid. Since there are no registered products containing oxalic acid, the EPA has no health or safety information from which to draw a conclusion.
I hope you find this information useful. Please write us again if you have additional questions.
_______________________________________________________________________________
2/21/2014 7:01 PM EST Reopen

In reading the information that you provided I am still unclear about using oxalic acid. I do understand clearly that it would be it would violate both federal and state laws to manufacture, distribute or sell pesticide products containing oxalic acid.

What I am trying to find out is whether or not I can use it for myself for the purpose of killing mites in my bee hives in my own backyard.

So to be clear, I am not talking about selling, packaging, or labeling it for any purpose. What I am trying to find out about is the legality of personal use.
___________________________________________________________________________________
2/25/2014 4:47 PM EST Response Sent  Pesticides17
We have responded to your inquiry.
Thank you for your follow-up question.

While the agency does regulate the sale and distribution of unregistered pesticides, it does not regulate the personal use of unregistered pesticides. There may be unidentified hazards associated with the personal use of products that are not registered pesticides, but it is not a violation of Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act for you to personally use the chemical. However, since bees produce honey, there may be food or other consumer product purity considerations under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act if you sell honey or any other hive products. It is also worth noting that this response only addresses federal laws and regulations. You might consider contacting your state pesticide regulatory agency to ask if any state laws apply.
=============================================================================


I followed this up by writing to my own state's EPA to see if it was against State law but have not yet received a reply.

At this point I would assume that the only problem would be if there were elevated concentrations of it in the Honey. Since I would never use it with supers on I would'nt think that would be a problem.

So the way I read it, You can use Oxalic Acid if you want to. What you can't do is PACKAGE or SELL it as a varroa mite treatment.

Alfred Westlake

« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 11:10:07 PM by alfred » Logged
Jim 134
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 09:00:25 AM »

Adee Honey Farms

  Something you might like to read before you use and unapproved chemicals or products in a bee hive.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?195371-Adees-fined-for-unapproved-chemical-use&highlight=Adee

 Actually they were find for using unapproved chemicals and the towels that were found contained Fluvalinate and oxalic acid.  Most believe it was the use of the Fluvalinate that got them in trouble.

This is what can happen for using a chemical off-label 

From what I read about this case the fine was paid without finding.

                  

                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 09:16:50 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Jim 134
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2014, 03:45:15 AM »

     I do know that the beekeeping laws in New Hampshire are. You cannot use a chemical or biological agent that is not approved for beekeeping without written permission from the state of New Hampshire Apiary inspector.  What this means to me read the label if it is not on the label it is not approved.


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
alfred
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2014, 09:59:15 AM »

So in New Hampshire you can't use essential oils, or sugar shakes, or the smoke of burlap, or really anything at all which is not specifically labeled for such a use?
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Jim 134
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2014, 04:54:42 PM »

So in New Hampshire you can't use essential oils, or sugar shakes, or the smoke of burlap, or really anything at all which is not specifically labeled for such a use?

   I realize when something is taken a context is a pretext I would give you the 22 Pg. to read for yourself only one thing wrong New Hampshire is redesigning the website. (The bee inspector tells me it will be about 4 to 6 weeks before is back up and running again) There are three different departments in New Hampshire you need to deal with beekeeping laws, Food and safety laws and grade and labeling laws.
And more if you produce over 15,000 pounds of honey or beehive Products or if you are doing third party sales.

IMHO

   You need to check the state that you live in or do production in or sales for the state laws that may apply to you.

   There maybe a loophole if you do not sell your honey or bee hive products.


    And by the way you even know the name of the chief bee inspector of your state ??  
    
    Have you talk to him or her on the phone by mail or in person to ask the questions that you are trying answered here ??
    
    The local health inspector is one of the most powerful people that can help you  or not and do not ask me how I know this.






                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 04:13:09 AM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
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