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Author Topic: Foundationless Frames  (Read 8396 times)
buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2008, 07:19:41 AM »

I think this was done during the black locust flow.the honey was really light too!
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2008, 08:14:07 AM »

do you have to put a bevel on the top bar? and a couple of wires to guide them,or just put a frame in there and let'em go.
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2008, 11:42:35 PM »

do you have to put a bevel on the top bar?

No.

Quote
and a couple of wires to guide them,or just put a frame in there and let'em go.

I just put the frame in and let them start drawing comb.  My experience with exposed wires in frames and/or foundation is that the bees will often leave gaps along the wire.  I don't use wire on foundationless frames as I think the wire creates as many problems as it solves.
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2008, 07:42:22 AM »

This frame was placed between drawn frames,no bevel no starter strip,and no wires.That way if you want chunk honey,nothing else to deal with,or you can easily do cut comb. I was a little skeptical at first about doing this ,but seeing is believing!
I have spun some of these out in the hand extractor as long as they were attached on all sides.Just work slowly and carefully.They seem to stiffen as they get older too. Smiley
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JP
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« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2008, 09:09:38 AM »

Bees will draw out empty frames if they have the resources to do so. According to Don, aka Fatbeeman, crosscomb is a sign of a failing queen. He does a once a yr test whereby he adds an empty shallow frame in the brood nest. If the bees draw it straight down with no cross comb, good queen. If the comb has worker cell, good queen. If lots of drone cell or crosscomb, replace queen.

I see white combs all the time in the wild, these are just newer combs that the bees drew out. 




....JP

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« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2008, 11:51:30 AM »

Ken  That pic is beautiful, all that pristine white comb!!  I am contemplating using this method as I will know where the wax comes from & they will eventually do their own small cell?

Jody
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2008, 02:44:47 PM »

Wonderful thread. Thanks everyone for sharing.

In coming years, I'll use a few foundationless frames to test the queen. Also, I'll use beveled frame and a non-beveled frame to have them start.

Much appreciated

Scott
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2008, 08:03:56 PM »

I was hoping to build about 100 frames today with my new pneumatic nailer and staplers but as luck would have it the casing on the ball valve blew out and I spent the rest of the day disassembling, reassembling, repeat, repeat, in order to get it repaired.  I had to tear it apart 3 times because once the ball valve was replaced the backpressure sensor started leaking.  As a result I only got 20 frames made.  But the serendipity of the day was, as I was looking for parts I found about 20 feet of wood tape.  Just the right width (3/4 inch) to fit in the frame for a starter rib on foundationless frames. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2008, 11:42:57 AM »

I was hoping to build about 100 frames today with my new pneumatic nailer and staplers but as luck would have it the casing on the ball valve blew out and I spent the rest of the day disassembling, reassembling, repeat, repeat, in order to get it repaired.  I had to tear it apart 3 times because once the ball valve was replaced the backpressure sensor started leaking.  As a result I only got 20 frames made.  But the serendipity of the day was, as I was looking for parts I found about 20 feet of wood tape.  Just the right width (3/4 inch) to fit in the frame for a starter rib on foundationless frames. 

Been thinking of the pneumatic nailers for my frame building. Brian, please let me know how you like it, and are they pricey, how much are the things, was curious about that too. Many thanks.

....JP
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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2008, 01:31:31 PM »

hey jp i have been useing a craftsman 1/4 crown nailer shooting about 1'' staples.it seems to work pretty good,but if pressure is up it will split wood very easily.putting pieces in a bucket of water for a short while seems to help with the splitting.but all in all for a first timer it works good.just watched the you tube video looked cool.
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JP
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« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2008, 01:47:54 PM »

Thanks catfish, how much did you pay for yours?


....JP
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« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2008, 01:56:35 PM »

JP, hubby has a Hitachi 18 gauge brad nailer and he loves it!  He banged out 230 frames in two days, 12 brad nails per frame and glue.  We also have a frame jig from Brushy Mountain, well worth the investment.  I think we paid $89 for the nailer from Home Desperate (it was on sale).

He just said to tell you the only thing wrong with it is the plunger is plastic - that makes him nervous that it may break with heavy use, and he doesn't know if it's replaceable or not.
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JP
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2008, 02:08:57 PM »

Thanks Ann!!!


....JP
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« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2008, 05:58:26 PM »

I think it was between 50-75 bucks but this was several years ago.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2008, 12:12:25 AM »

If you shop around you can by an air compressor with brad nailer or stapler pretty cheap.  I bought a Wen 2 hp 4 gallon pancake tank with brad nailer for $149.00.  I've since picked up an automatic tool oiler and other gagets on specials from Harbor Freight.  With a little expermentation I've found that 1 inch 18 guage brads at a setting of 75 psi works best.  Drives them flush and doesn't split out the wood.  However, there is still the problem of hitting a knot and having the brad curl back through your finger or hand if not careful.  With the jig and double nailing each end piece to the top bar it takes about 20 minutes a jig full.  That includes set up and removal.

I made a jig (I think Maddox posted a picture) that holds 17 frames.  I had wanted it to hold 16 because that would make 2 supers worth of frames in one pass.  But I mismeasured a tad and it will hold 15 with topbars all up or 17 with top bar up, top bar down, top up, etc.

Look around Ace, Lowes, Home Depot, etc, often offer a combo compressor/nailer combo at a reasonable price from time to time.  If you want to go all out Harbor Freight offers a 3 hp compressor with 5 gallon pancake tank and a stapler, brad nailer, and framing nailer for $329.00 complete.  I think it's a Port Cable brand name.
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« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2008, 12:22:46 AM »

This is the one I got;

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40115

Then my compressor looks like this one.... But I got it for $99.99 I believe it was

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40400
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« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2008, 12:55:58 AM »



Yes, that's one I got too.

Quote
Then my compressor looks like this one.... But I got it for $99.99 I believe it was

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40400


That's a good one--can't go wrong with it--the wheels are a plus as I've used my air compressor 200 feet from the house when stapling wire on the goat fence.  The point is that these  days pneumatic tools are at a reasonable price so that most any one can afford them.
I have a brad nailer, stapler, and nailer/stapler combo I have the stapler loaded with 1 inch staples, 1 brad nailer with 1 inch brads and the other with 2 inch brads.  Out have a 3 way outlet on my compressor so I can run 3 tools at once.  That way I'm ready for what ever I'm building and can build a complete hive by just changing the tool--don't even have to unhook it from the compressor.  The multiple outlet for tools works great when stapling fence for the goats or birds and I can have 2 or 3 people working at the same time. 
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« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2008, 02:17:34 AM »

Appreciate it guys, it seems you have to be careful though, which I will do, gettin' a brad through the finger doesn't sound like a spring picnic to say the least. This is the one I have, think its enough to run the brad/staple gun?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00915310000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Tools&Equipment&sName=Air%20Compressors%20&%20Inflators&psid=YAHOOSHOP01&sid=IDx20070921x00003b

May consider this for price but don't think I need all three. May get the one from Harbor freight. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00916853000P?keyword=pneumatic+guns


Thanks for the responses guys, JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2008, 07:53:24 AM »

JP, I think that's the compressor we have, it'll drive spikes!

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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2008, 11:29:05 AM »

125 PSI. Yep that should get-er-done. The brad nailers really don't use that much air. You can nail a whole lot without having to plug it in and build up air.
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