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Author Topic: Anyone use the fake "brood boost" Pheremone yet?  (Read 6196 times)
Hayesbo
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« on: February 09, 2008, 09:46:25 PM »

Just wondering if it was worth the expense of trying this new product out? It isn't much, just about $11 or $12 I thing to do two hives for 30 days.

After I requeen my 3 living hives, I still want to grow to about 6 this year with honey production if possible.

Thanks,  Steve
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 12:13:30 PM »

No. If even half of their claims are true..... I too am curious......
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mudlakee
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2008, 03:07:20 PM »

Come on try it and let us know it works. You will be able to try it and have results before our snow melts.  No Really, some one must have tryed by now.  Tony
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Cindi
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 10:04:55 AM »

We had a speaker come to our bee club meeting, I missed this meeting and was sorry I did because this was one of the discussions from the speaker.  Brood pheromone and faster buildup.  I bet it works.  The pheromone that brood exudes is one of the keys to the bees to forage for pollen for feeding the brood.  More brood pheromone, more pollen foraging bees, yeah!!!  Makes total sense eh?  Have a wonderful, great day, love life.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
indypartridge
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 10:27:28 AM »

I'm curious as well, but don't know that I'd try it even if I start hearing success stories. I don't want to end up in front of a Congressional hearing on whether or not I "juiced" my bees.  shocked
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rdy-b
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 06:07:40 PM »

I wonder if It will keep a queen-less hive from going laying worker -RDY-B
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Cindi
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 08:10:18 AM »

RDY-B.  Now that is an extremely good question, but I kind of doubt it.  The queen exudes many many pheromones, that if they were not present in the hive, I think the bees would be messed up, hee, hee.  But it is still a question certainly worthy of some thought and a good answer, I would love to hear too.  Have a wonderful and awesome day, Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
rdy-b
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 04:49:43 PM »

IT is the brood PHEROMONE(actualy it has to be worker brood -drone brood dosent have the same pheromone)that suppresses worker bees from laying -not queen pheromone -I just wonder if the synthetic stuff is as effective -or maybe they only have it zeroed in to a close second -  cheesy    RDY-B                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm                                                                                                            http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm#pheromones         cool
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peggjam
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2008, 09:18:18 PM »

Yes, correct, it is the brood pheromones that keep laying workers at bay.  So this product should keep a queenless hive content for awhile.  I plan on trying this, if and when it warms up here Smiley.
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Cindi
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 11:59:49 PM »

RDY-B.  I understand that, but now I have a wrench that I am going to throw into this pie.

It is said that workers begin to become laying workers when there is no brood pheromone present, not anything to do with pheromones that the queen emits.  That came clear on the site of Michael's that I was reading. I was sure that I studied somewhere that both queen pheromone and brood pheromone combined supressed the ovariole development of worker bees and inhibited laying workers.    Wondering about that and why.

During the winter time in the colder places, the queen ceases to lay eggs.  There can be a very extended length of time wherein there is no brood present in the colony during winter.

Why are not laying workers a commonplace event in the wintertime, if it is the lack of brood which encites workers to begin to lay.

I don't get this.....and I really need to understand this concept.  Am I missing something in this big picture?  Have a wonderful and great day, groove on this life we live.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
rdy-b
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 09:12:59 PM »


Why are not laying workers a commonplace event in the wintertime, if it is the lack of brood which encites workers to begin to lay.
     PROBABLY THE SAME REASONS THE QUEEN DOSENT LAY IN WINTER CLUSTER-- grin  It is of the old school and the old readings that taught us that it is queen pheromone -that suppresses ovaris from developing-the agreed standard is of newer learnings -and it is brood pheromone that supresses  ovaris from developing -BY the BY this was the first thing that i disscused when i started to post on this forum and thanks to MB i know now what is realy going on with this topic -I to was a bit of a sceptic -but had to update my learnings about shuch things  cheesy cheesy cheesy cool  RDY-B
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Angi_H
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2008, 12:12:09 AM »

I might use it in the package to give it a try. Why not.

Angi
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suprstakr
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2008, 09:54:38 AM »

Question will it make a bad queen lay better ? That would be bad in my book , since she will produce drones with her genes , and you know results from that ( weak new queens ) huh
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KONASDAD
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2008, 10:03:18 AM »

I have also read that laying workers may be present all the time, they just get their eggs removed by other workers, until a queen goes missing for an extended time period. I would also think as mentioned above that all egg laying stops at certain times of winter, eliminating for short time periods grood pheromones being present.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2008, 08:54:31 PM »

Question will it make a bad queen lay better ? That would be bad in my book , since she will produce drones with her genes , and you know results from that ( weak new queens ) huh
   HARD to tell she could have good genes -and maybe she just didnt get feed enough -and had imparded development -or maybe the queen rearer but to many cells in the starter -all these things are relavent - cool RDY-B
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2008, 09:50:33 PM »

I have also read that laying workers may be present all the time, they just get their eggs removed by other workers, until a queen goes missing for an extended time period. I would also think as mentioned above that all egg laying stops at certain times of winter, eliminating for short time periods grood pheromones being present.

There are laying workers in almost every hive. It will range from very few, if any, in a good strong hive to thousands in a laying worker hive.  A good example of a laying worker in a queenright hive is drone comb in the supers when an excluder is in use.  The further from the brood area drone comb is found the more likely it is of laying worker origin. 

And as noted even a laying worker hive will stop egg laying during winter--hence the best time to requeen a laying worker hive is with a full frame of bees and brood containing the queen early in the spring before brood production really begins.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Skepticus
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2008, 09:19:18 AM »

Well, I learned something this evening. I had no idea that a colony usually (or ever even) contains laying workers in a queenright colony.

RDY-B.  I understand that, but now I have a wrench that I am going to throw into this pie.

It is said that workers begin to become laying workers when there is no brood pheromone present, not anything to do with pheromones that the queen emits.  That came clear on the site of Michael's that I was reading. I was sure that I studied somewhere that both queen pheromone and brood pheromone combined supressed the ovariole development of worker bees and inhibited laying workers.    Wondering about that and why.

During the winter time in the colder places, the queen ceases to lay eggs.  There can be a very extended length of time wherein there is no brood present in the colony during winter.

Why are not laying workers a commonplace event in the wintertime, if it is the lack of brood which encites workers to begin to lay.

I don't get this.....and I really need to understand this concept.  Am I missing something in this big picture?  Have a wonderful and great day, groove on this life we live.  Cindi

Interesting point Cindi. Is is firmly established, that brood pheromone and the queen pheromone (the one that assure the bees they are queenright, are actually different, or work differently in the brain of the bee? Assuming for argument sake, that both pheromones are one and the same, or perhaps  they just work the same in the brain of the bee, then, whether there is brood or a queen the urge for a worker to lay could be suppressed. Hence you could remove the brood and still have the queen, but not get an increase of laying workers, but loose the queen and soon the brood will follow. If that is so, then you don't need both signals but rather either.

Could I be so bold as to speculate, that if both pheromones are one and the same, it belongs to the egg, so that the queen is loaded with this pheromone because she carries the eggs. Why then does drone brood have none of this pheromone? Given that there may be some laying workers at any time, perhaps the drones are always laid by a worker. Either that or, there is only one pheromone (for both brood and queenright signals), but it belongs to the sperm or is created during or after fertilization. Failing that we are back to two separate pheromones with the same effect, but without explanation of why drone brood has none of this brood pheromone. Hmmm... Interesting. Undecided
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rdy-b
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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 01:46:29 AM »

DRone brood has its OWN pheromones -thats why varoa can tell which cells are drone-you ask why drone brood dosent suppress laying workers -like worker brood -if i had to gusse i would say -because  the drone  is HAPLOID and only has half the set of CHROMOSOMES that the worker has  Wink  RDY-B
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2008, 11:42:40 AM »

>Why are not laying workers a commonplace event in the wintertime, if it is the lack of brood which encites workers to begin to lay.

The same things that suppress the queen laying in the winter and in dearths, suppress the laying workers
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Michael Bush
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