Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 02, 2014, 10:37:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: goodbye Spain/Germany/France/Slovenia....welcome federal Europe  (Read 5029 times)
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« on: January 15, 2008, 04:27:18 PM »

this is so wrong on sooooo many levels!!!
abejaruco, from 2009 we are BOTH citizens of EUROPE!! that's right, no more Spain, no more Slovenia. (maybe exaggerating just a bit)

Lisbon Treaty, what is it? yep, i was just as ignorant to it, like most people, but now that someone mentioned it could be bad....read it for yourselves and try to think of at least one country, that has different nations WITHIN and functions for more than 50 years. now, think of a multinational country that did not end with massive bloodshed?
but NO! we don't want to be "old conservative Europe", we are very progressive...
read the 10 frightening points right here:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2773

now, only Ireland will organize a referendum whether they'll support it or not, our PM how ever is doing everything to acknowledge it by the end of this month.

although you're not citizens of any European country, this decision might have just as big effect on you, sooner or later! so i invite you to support the petition for public referendum started by a patriotic organization . if Ireland says NO, and if by any chance we manage to get our referendum and vote NO...the world might still be saved!
http://www.hervardi.com/vote/podpora.php
Name, surname
City, post number
e-mail


you can also read a short note to our PM and to our newly elected president, both did not respond in any way, they also notified ALL media in our country, how many news do you think started with "petition on Lisbon treaty"? NONE, not even ONE WORD about it
http://www.hervardi.com/referendum2008.php


thank you for at least reading all this
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 06:39:45 PM »

they knew that if they had a referendum, the people would vote it down.  they couldn't even get the FRENCH to approve the provisional constitution.  i read the thing.  over 300 pages of regulations on every single aspect of life.  never mind the redistribution of wealth in the EU.  it will regulate everything you buy, eat, drive, and tax the crap out of you.

and you are right....almost nothing said.  i don't get it.  why would an entire continent give up sovereignty to two countries that couldn't take over Europe in war, so now have done it by deceit? 

ya....it gets me a bit wound up.  it will hit us all.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 07:06:14 PM »

I remember stuff about one world government and New world order. But nobody believed it.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5440


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 07:22:07 PM »

Beware,
In the beginning in the US the only powers the federal gov't had were those given to it by the states and the Constitution ratified by the states. States rights seem to have been usurped by the federal government.
Here is the tenth amendment of the constitution:


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Incrementalism is a way to slowly erode the rights of the people.that is the way to get to the one world order.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 07:46:42 PM »

Quote
Incrementalism is a way to slowly erode the rights of the people.that is the way to get to the one world order.

and the best way to do that is to convince them that "it's in their best interest" and "they'll be taken care of".  you also have to make the people who don't need to be taken care of, believe that they have a moral responsibility to help the government care for the poor.  sounds a little familiar .......
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 09:45:18 PM »

Quote
Incrementalism is a way to slowly erode the rights of the people.that is the way to get to the one world order.

and the best way to do that is to convince them that "it's in their best interest" and "they'll be taken care of".  you also have to make the people who don't need to be taken care of, believe that they have a moral responsibility to help the government care for the poor.  sounds a little familiar .......

Yes, and...!  Roosevelt started buying the rights reserved to the states with the New Deal and getting us off the gold standard.  Ever since the Federal Government has been buying the rights from the states by returning some of the tax money collected from the states own citizens.  The most notable, of late, is the states can no longer decide how to educate your child--You've heard of the No Child Left Behind Act haven't you?
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
reinbeau
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2502


Location: Hanson, MA and Lebanon, ME


« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 06:38:20 AM »

they knew that if they had a referendum, the people would vote it down.  they couldn't even get the FRENCH to approve the provisional constitution.  i read the thing.  over 300 pages of regulations on every single aspect of life.  never mind the redistribution of wealth in the EU.  it will regulate everything you buy, eat, drive, and tax the crap out of you.

and you are right....almost nothing said.  i don't get it.  why would an entire continent give up sovereignty to two countries that couldn't take over Europe in war, so now have done it by deceit? 

ya....it gets me a bit wound up.  it will hit us all.
It's going to happen here in 2011, and anyone who brings it up is dismissed as an internet kook.  Call me that if you'd like, but the North American Union is coming and no one seems to give a ****.  huh
Logged


- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Click for Hanson, Massachusetts Forecast" border="0" height="150" width="256
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2008, 08:09:01 AM »

Quote
The most notable, of late, is the states can no longer decide how to educate your child--You've heard of the No Child Left Behind Act haven't you?

Another example of incrementalism...the states should never had the decision of how to educate your children in the first place.  That is the parents responsibility, and the parents' rights have been slowly given up.
Logged

Rick
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2008, 10:32:51 AM »

scadsobees has it. among the federal departments that need to go, is the education department.  brian, i don't know how long you have been out of the child game, but we have not been able to educate our own children, our own way, until these last 20 years.  before that, if i wanted to home-school my children, they and i would have been considered truant.  public school or private school were the only choices unless a child was to ill to attend class. 

while i agree that things like the "no child left behind act" are interfering with the state, i also have a problem with money being given to any industry and no accountability required.  it causes a bit of mental conflict.

public school is not necessarily a bad thing.  it should be run by states and accountable to the people of the state.  any monopoly that gets money and is not accountable, gets sloppy and apathetic.  it you want good and accountable schools, start by getting rid of the teachers union. 

reinbeau, it may happen sometime, but i think 2011 is a little close.  there are some rather insurmountable obstacles to it at this moment.  most of them to the south of us, but some of them in our own constitution.  to do what the alarmists say we will do, we must make some amendments to our founding documents.  to do that, is a trick that takes times.  allowing that some great catastrophe may change things, i do not see a NAU in the near future.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
indypartridge
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1097


Location: Brown County, IN


« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 12:27:36 PM »

reinbeau, it may happen sometime, but i think 2011 is a little close.  there are some rather insurmountable obstacles to it at this moment. ... some of them in our own constitution.  to do what the alarmists say we will do, we must make some amendments to our founding documents.  to do that, is a trick that takes time.
No need to amend the Constitution, our government can just continue to ignore it. The 10th Amendment (as noted by buzzbee) was never officially repealed, but it's sure been ignored. And just where in the Constitution is there any mention of the Federal government having anything to do with education? Yet the 5000 or so gov't employees of the Dept of Education spend billions so that America's children are properly indoctrinated.
Logged
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 01:03:47 PM »

well, after a week of "actions" we got the first media attention. guess what they wrote about? that's right, everything else but the treaty and the petition for a referendum!
so this next few lines are composed of my 4 letter words so...i don't need to write them. !$&%"#)!&)($#)=&(=!"(#/$&(/!"#%(%"(=#¨?!)=%(#)!(&$)##!"$$!#$!HVK$J!Š?=E!&$(/!(/%$!?=(¨=/)$)&!(/$5t7812%($)=&!)="&$#=!()/&$(/!"%&=(#&=)(60860824630(&/(=&!"$&=!("%$=(%/%$!=/($=)!(/&)?1 MEDIA

now that the steam is out...
what they wrote about is: "how come "andrej šiško" could simply step up to our president although he is convicted of some felony and sentenced to 1yr9m of jail (still waiting to go do the time)"
though he really is convicted and this is, like you can see VERY irrelevant to the referendum and the treaty, there are numerous faults, so there is no doubt it's a politically motivated trial. YES, PATRIOTISM IS being prosecuted around here.

and once again...cast your vote, although i'm not sure it's allowed for foreigners.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 01:35:58 PM »

the plight of the people of Europe, most of whom are not in favor of this treaty, is a good reminder to us to stay involved.  many of us are discouraged by our political process and often consider passing on it.  when we feel that our voice and vote do not count, it is tempting to sit out the process.

your choice has been taken from you.  it was an incredibly easy thing to do.  it should scare the he** out of us.  unfortunately, most people in the US have absolutely no idea what has happened to you, or what it means.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 02:04:25 PM »

most people in the US have absolutely no idea what has happened to you, or what it means.

kathy, you just can't imagine how deeply i wish this was "it".
so, you think it's a problem US citizens don't know what lisbon treaty actually is about. what will you say if i tell you that 99,9% Europeans a) don't know of it b) don't know what's it about c) don't WANNA know or get involved into thinking d) think you're "attacking" the ruling party when you say we should have a referendum e) insert what you will, you know how people are

let me tell this one more time, the only thing we heard in media are the nxt few words:
"ratification, lisbon treaty, this year"
NOT ONE WORD about the effects!!! NOT ONE!!!!! and these few CAPS actually are SCREAM words!!!
Logged
reinbeau
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2502


Location: Hanson, MA and Lebanon, ME


« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 04:28:08 PM »

reinbeau, it may happen sometime, but i think 2011 is a little close.  there are some rather insurmountable obstacles to it at this moment. ... some of them in our own constitution.  to do what the alarmists say we will do, we must make some amendments to our founding documents.  to do that, is a trick that takes time.
No need to amend the Constitution, our government can just continue to ignore it. The 10th Amendment (as noted by buzzbee) was never officially repealed, but it's sure been ignored. And just where in the Constitution is there any mention of the Federal government having anything to do with education? Yet the 5000 or so gov't employees of the Dept of Education spend billions so that America's children are properly indoctrinated.
I thought the Constitution had turned into an 'evolving paradigm' - at least that's the way the liberals like John Kerry think  rolleyes  I dunno, Kathy, I heard the date of implementation was February 2011.  I hope you're right, but the way things are going in this country right now I have my sincere doubts.  I'm pretty convinced we're going to go full moonbat with this presidential election, unfortunately.  The country hasn't experienced what we have here in MA with a totally inexperienced liberal taking charge with the 'Together we can' motto - so far he's not managed to do anything at all, which could be a good thing, but give him time.....and a president is far different from a governor.  I'm fearful for the future of the USA.
Logged


- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Click for Hanson, Massachusetts Forecast" border="0" height="150" width="256
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2008, 05:42:28 PM »

we might be in for it.  think of pelosi, reid, and either obama or hillary.  that's the stuff of nightmares.....or disaster flicks......
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2008, 10:07:43 PM »

we might be in for it.  think of pelosi, reid, and either obama or hillary.  that's the stuff of nightmares.....or disaster flicks......

Dorothy on the Yellow Brick Road:  "Hillary, Obama, and Pelosi. Oh no!  Hillary, Obama, and Pelosi. Oh no!  Hillary, Obama, and Pelosi. Oh no!"
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
nepenthes
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 512


Location: Ohio USA

Little honey bee in flight


WWW
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 10:44:57 PM »



I've been saying these things all along.

Finlay some people are listening. Vote for Ron Paul, a Constitutionalitist. He might have a few weird Ideas but isn't it better to weigh out the good to the bad?

But Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance. Not with the limited news/media coverage. Hell my government teacher didn't even know who Ron Paul was till i asked about him. Couple weeks later he new a bit more.



Logged

"I have never wished to cater to the crowd, for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know." - Epicurus.
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2008, 12:32:29 AM »

nepenthes, i applaud the fact that you are involved in the process.  your candidate probably does not have a chance, but that's ok.  he has gotten a lot of people re-involved in the process.  he has also pointed out to the powers that be, that many are very unhappy with the growth and actions of government.  backing someone who can not win does not always have to be a losing proposition.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2008, 06:10:13 PM »

BUMP!
i'm sorry but i just have to!
if you vote, and get any mail about legislating your vote, forward it to me, and i'll translate it and tell you what to do.
by voting, you don0t sign a contract with the devil, your information is protected and hidden by our law.....
when you vote you get an automated e-mail saying thank you-elongated.

1114 votes so far, the end of January is closing


a MUST_READ, Jens-Peter Bond webblog
http://www.bonde.com/index.phtml?sid=487&aid=25478
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2008, 06:51:38 PM »

i think the leadership of Ireland will come under so much pressure and be threatened so much economically by France and Germany, that they will cave.  the Brits were trying to back out of some parts or at least have a greater say in what happened, but it looks like they will give it up also.  what a mess for any successful European country.  the successful ones will be left to carry the load for the failures, and will have to take in and support all who come. might as well just do away with borders and have one, giant, welfare state.

i was looking at all the fines and punishments for those who fail to comply with the rules of the EU.  who gets that money?? smiley  kind of like the Kyoto fines.  where does that money go? 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
qa33010
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 912


Location: Arkansas, White County


« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 02:02:32 AM »

   kathyp,  In a way that's how the feds got more control of the states.  Economic sanctions, AFTER all that good money was filtered into each state, with no strings attached, there suddenly became a need for oversight to make sure the money was spent correctly as well as qualifiers to keep receiving the loot.  Thus the NEA as well as new branches of the federal government grew and ate more and soon any surplus was eaten and that minute amount of income tax Teddy Roosevelt started was increased.  Then in the mid sixties Social Security money, which was seperate, was combined into the general fund, for our good under the 'Great Society'.  By this time the states had their hands out because suddenly the people, who previously were taking care of our own families, let the state do it.  During this time minimum wage was established and that monster also fed on itself increasing cost all around and requiring more higher and higher minimum wage.  9/11 brought Homeland Security that if I remember correctly was supposed to be a coordinating body ONLY (but I may be wrong).  Schools are evaluated by tests that do not even test the readiness of high school graduates for college.  Instead colleges are conducting remedial courses so students can take college courses and know what they are doing.  Hence the dumbing down to better get folks to be more like cattle and sheep.


    Granted we didn't have the best system in the world then, but we sure have made it worse and lost more of our own autonomy in the process.  Some one now tells me it's for the children or those that can't defend themselves I immediately challenge them to explain and prove it.  Then prove how it will make the grade without increasing the taxes that are already mispent on wasteful programs or pet projects.  I am a firm believer in the hand-up not hand-out theory.  I probably trod on some toes but I do support any one who is willing to resist anyone or anything that tries to take their freedom or autonomy away from them, including by hook or crook, without them having a say.  Sorry I got on the soap box again...I'll fall of now.
Logged

Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 04:05:27 PM »

we can go back farther.  while most would agree that ending slavery, and expanding voting rights, were good ideas, should they have been done by the feds?  yes, we did amend the constitution but states were already making moves on both.  same with labor laws and minimum wage,school desegregation....  people look back on these things as good moves, but every one of them eroded the powers of the states. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
qa33010
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 912


Location: Arkansas, White County


« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2008, 05:33:28 PM »

  I'ld forgotten about that.  Thanks.
Logged

Everyone said it couldn't be done. But he with a chuckle replied, "I won't be one to say it is so, until I give it a try."  So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin.  If he had a worry he hid it and he started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn't be done, and he did it.  (unknown)
wayne
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 344

Location: Indiana


« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 03:12:49 PM »

   If any group has a history of resistance it is Ireland, God help them.
   IF the nations of the world are thinned down to just a handful of unions, the UN becomes more powerful as a place to broker deals.
   These issues and others were what drove the survivalist movement to form.  And it makes one wonder. If some catastrophy was to threaten the world economy, and the stability of civilization, should we let nature take its course?  Would it really be a mercy to keep things afloat, or let civilization die and maybe reform at some later day?
Logged

I was born about 100 years too early, or to late.
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2008, 06:08:56 AM »

i don't know how much you are interested but...
today it's 28th, tomorrow they're supposed to ratificate the treaty.
tomorrow our action starts! the goal? a public referendum: "for independent Slovenia"
first, we'll have to get 2500 signatures in one week just to acknowledge it, then 40.000 in a month!

and what's the most scary thing? President, prime minister, 90 members of senate, the guardian of human rights, not one of them responded in ANY MANNER whatsoever!! and this, this is some scary sh**. NOT ONE media wrote a word about it, although, they got the same letters as ministers and the president!
Democracy? who are they kidding?

all the media and politics's a stage, and all ministers are merely players. what frightens me the most is, we are 90% sure about who the director is, and that is the most frightening fact!
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2008, 11:09:09 AM »

mici, i am sure you have the same problem we all have.  the news manipulates opinion by what they report and how they report it.  since most of the public gets their info in a 1/2 of nightly news, the press has a great deal of power.

 the press has always been used to sway public opinion.  knowing that, you can still get facts if you can filter the editorializing. when the press crosses the line and sways public opinion by omission, or by manipulation of the facts to support their position, that's a different matter.  unfortunately, the general public has gotten to lazy to fact check, or to look for their own info.  it's an odd thing in this age of info, that people can not seem to stir themselves to be educated.

good luck on your signature gathering.  it can be done if  enough people are reached.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
abejaruco
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 598

Location: cadiz


« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2008, 02:19:41 AM »

Mici. I have not idea about Ireland referendum, or federal Europe...  huh What has voted Slovenia?
Where am I? Who am I? : Wink
Logged
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2008, 06:57:39 AM »

well, the creme in our parliament voted YES, we have signed the treaty, although NOT 1 of the members read it, because it's not even in Slovenian language, plus it's 300 pages of "unreadable" document. our members of parliament have voted before about some things and have ADMITED to not even know what they voted YES. can you imagine that? i mean...if the denied it ok...but if you admit to make a NATIONALY IMPORTANT call on something you don't even know what's it about? that call for reconstituting hanging, chair, injection and guillotine.

anyway....we have collected 2700 signs of 2500 needed, but our president of the parliament rejected the petition, although it is not in his juridisdiction.
anyway...parliament has broken several laws trying to prevent us from having a referendum so....the house of law calls. the biggest problem is, people know nothing about it, as politics control the media so there hasn't been a single article about the whole thing.
Abejaruco, from now on (2009) you are an European!
it is a shame that the birthplace of modern democracy has turned into a modern oligarhic state (slovenia). when i say birth place of modern democracy i'm aiming at Carantania (around year 1000).
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2008, 07:33:54 PM »

mici, i asked my sister about ireland.  she told me that they get a lot of eu money.  she says they will fold before they give that up.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2008, 07:42:51 AM »

hmmm, if people are gonna be well informed and the government will do it's job (listen to people's voice), they should reject it. but if their government decides like other 20 (don't know the number of EU countries) that they're contempt enough to decide in the name of their people, then, it's gonna get messy.
Logged
abejaruco
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 598

Location: cadiz


« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2008, 12:46:39 AM »

Quote
like other 20 (don't know the number of EU countries)

Much, much...muchísimos...2000 or 3000. Smiley
Logged
abejaruco
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 598

Location: cadiz


« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2008, 12:48:28 AM »

Excuseme, Mici. I´m laughing about Europe. Sorry.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 12:01:26 PM »

mici, the brits just lost their promised right to hold a referendum on the EU.  the government will now  do the treaty.  it is, after all, in the best interest of the people......
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
reinbeau
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2502


Location: Hanson, MA and Lebanon, ME


« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 04:34:06 PM »

This is like a frickin' steam roller, happening all over the world!
Logged


- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Click for Hanson, Massachusetts Forecast" border="0" height="150" width="256
abejaruco
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 598

Location: cadiz


« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2008, 05:45:29 PM »

Quote
This is like a frickin' steam roller, happening all over the world!

The global warming? Smiley
Logged
reinbeau
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2502


Location: Hanson, MA and Lebanon, ME


« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2008, 05:50:20 PM »

No, individual rights going away for the 'common good'.  Scary phrase  shocked
Logged


- Ann, A Gardening Beek -  ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Click for Hanson, Massachusetts Forecast" border="0" height="150" width="256
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2008, 03:19:34 AM »

No, individual rights going away for the 'common good'.  Scary phrase  shocked

Yes, I can't conceive of one more terrifying than "for the common good."
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2008, 08:25:41 AM »

there really isn't much i can add here. Can you give me the link to the news or something, i can't find it.
But, searching the net, about irish referendum has given me hope, most of comments are against the lisbon treaty, so i guess the truth will get out and save us.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2008, 11:22:40 AM »

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=england+referendum

i just googled.  it's a little hard to tease out the info.  according to my sister, they have essentially voted not to vote on letting the people have a referendum, and have decided to leave the fate of the treaty in the hands of Parliament.  there are enough votes there to ratify it.

i have a little trouble understanding how the Brits do things.  I'm not sure i have to whole thing right.  maybe you understand their system.

anyway, the upshot is that the decision on the treaty will not be put to a vote by the people, it will be ratified by the government.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Mici
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1502


Location: Zagradec, Grosuple, Lower Carniola, Slovenia

tougher than rock


WWW
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 01:05:37 PM »

huh, i didn't even know the english were going to have a referendum, i knew for ireland, but not for england. I just hope Ireland doesn't give up....
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2008, 01:30:35 PM »

the people are really against this.  they have not even switched to the euro.  their economy is one of the strongest in europe and they are concerned about things like the open borders, and the taxes that the eu will take.  it's going to be pretty bad for them.  never mind that the eu can over rule court cases, etc.....  one big happy country!
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2008, 03:34:53 PM »

So will Britain surrender?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080324/cm_csm/ywebbe
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15122


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2008, 10:45:22 PM »

that's a good article.   what France and Germany could not do by war, they have done by treaty.  the Brits will cave.  the EU will simply roll over them and leave them no choice.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 1.381 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page August 15, 2014, 09:55:00 AM
anything