Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 25, 2014, 05:36:39 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Swarm Trap Study Results  (Read 44378 times)
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« on: January 13, 2008, 09:25:59 PM »

Swarm trapping can be lots of fun and there is plenty of room for experimenting and
increasing our knowledge. Back in the mid 80's I started a program at the Carl Hayden Bee
Research Center to develop an effective way to lure swarms into traps or boxes. The key
turns out to be the pheromone lure. Swarming bees use their Nasonov pheromone as their
main chemical cue to organize house hunting, and what I did was make a synthetic slow
release Nasonov pheromone lure that lasts about a year and is wonderfully attractive to
swarms. The trap itself, the location of the trap, the time of year and other factors are also
important. For European bees the best traps are the pulp based traps or old hive boxes.
Cardboard boxes, plastic boxes, buckets, etc. are not suitable nests for bees and the
bees recognize that. The result is very poor swarm occupancy in traps made of those
materials.
Until the pheromone became available, the best attractants were hive materials, especially
old combs, propolis, etc. Africans used hollow logs with bee materials inside quite
successfully to attract swarms. Part of our investigations were to determine just how
important pheromone was and whether we could “tweak” the system by substituting,
adding to, or deleting pheromone. In new clean traps, those with pheromone attracted 19
swarms; those without pheromone attracted only 4 swarms (Schmidt, J. Chem. Ecol. 20:
1053-56 [1994]). This clearly indicated that without pheromone most swarms were getting
away.
But what about old comb, and other hive products? A paper is just now submitted to
address that situation, but some of the results are summarized in an abstract in the Dec.
1990 issue of American Bee J. on p. 812. In essence, it turns out that if one compares
traps with pheromone as well as either an added old comb or that had housed a colony,
with traps lacking pheromone, but had an added old comb or had housed a colony, the
pheromone traps caught 13 swarms to the 3 of the traps with comb and no pheromone.
This ratio is no different from the “clean” test results of 19 to 4. Thus, old comb does not
enhance the attractiveness of pheromone.
But what about old comb in the absence of pheromone? In this case (although it took a long
time to attract enough swarms to get the numbers) the results were 11 swarms in traps with
comb to 0 in traps without comb. This shows that in the absence of pheromone, comb has
some attractiveness and is clearly better than nothing. The catch is that comb without
pheromone is still not terribly attractive relative to pheromone. Bees have a distinct
hierarchy of preferences!
A couple of other points. Comb does have the disadvantages of being attractive to wax
moths which make a mess, comb can have spores of foulbrood or other diseases, and in
some states it is technically illegal to have comb out where it can spread disease. Comb is
also expensive and valuable, something you might not want to lose.
The main problem with pheromone is its availability. Mann Lake does sell the pheromone
lures, as does Beemaster in Tucson (520 770-1463) and Fisher Enterprises (POB 1364,
Coupeville, WA 98239; 360 678-8401) and perhaps some others. It is simple to make.
The only problem is that the chemical suppliers will not sell the components to individuals
(some excuse about lawyers and liability is my suspicion). Thus, beekeepers are basically
stuck having to buy the pre-made lures.
Information on the lures is in Amer. Bee J. 129: 468-71 (1989). Ted Fischer brings up an
interesting observation. Often when a lure is in a trap, one will see clusters of a few to
several hundred bees that just “hang around” inside the trap for weeks. We see that also
and do not know exactly what it means. It could be either scouts that are so attracted to the
cavity and lure that they do not leave, or it could be that they got lost and stranded (their
swarm might have moved on) and have no place to go and are just naturally attracted to
cluster around their own pheromone. Maybe somebody has some observations on this.
Happy swarm hunting!
Justin O. Schmidt, PhD
USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center
2000 East Allen Rd., Tucson, Arizona 85719, U.S.A.
Office: 520 670-6380, extension 109 (voicemail) FAX: 520 670-6493
Email: joschmid@u.arizona.edu
For Bee & Pollination information on the World Wide Web Please visit us at
http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 10:55:09 PM »

 Old hive locations, where comb is still intact such as in a wall void or ceiling, time and again attracts swarms to move in. In fact even if the hive is removed it is still attractive to swarms, that's why removing a hive is not enough security that the area will not get bees again. Bee-proofing is an absolute must! I have removed hives from houses that had hives in the same exact spot previously, because the area was not sealed properly. I have also removed hives from houses that have had multiple hives throughout the yrs. In fact, I will go out on a limb here and say that most structures that have hives will get them again. If not in the exact spot, a spot adjacent to where the previous hive was removed. With that said, I always use swarm pheremone in my traps and have very good results luring swarms. On swarm calls where the bees are on something like a wall, or umbrella, etc...whereby its not possible to shake them off, swarm traps with pheremone come in real handy. I usually just take handfuls of bees and place them in the trap, always on the look out for the queen. They usually go right in the trap within a short period of time. In summary, swarm pheremone in my experience is great in attracting swarms, but so are the components of old hives or hive locations, such as wall voids.

Sincerely, JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
NWIN Beekeeper
Professional Beekeeper
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 338


Location: Crown Point, Indiana (30mi SE of Chicago)


« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 08:06:56 PM »

Justin is no slouch at swarm trapping:


Schmidt, J O (1994) Attraction of reproductive honey bee swarms to artificial nests by Nasonov pheromone. J Chem Ecol 20, 1053-1056

Schmidt, J O, Thoenes, S C (1987) Swarm cavities for survey and control of Africanized honey bees. Bull Entomol Soc Amer 33, 155-158

Schmidt, J O, Thoenes, S C (1992) Criteria for nest site selection in honey bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae): preferences between pheromone attractants and cavity shapes. Environ Entomol 21, 1130-1133

Schmidt, J O, Slessor, K N, Winston, M L (1993) Roles of Nasonov and queen pheromones in attraction of honeybee swarms. Naturwissenschaften 80, 573-575

Schmidt, J O, Thoenes, S C, Hurley, R (1989) Swarm traps. Amer Bee J 129, 468-471


All of them are awesome reads if you can get your hands on them and don't mind distilling through the "white paper" jargon.
Logged

There is nothing new under the sun. Only your perspective changes to see it anew.
Farmdon
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6

Location: Southern Illinois


« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 07:31:25 PM »

Should we assume that the lemongrass oil trick was  not tested? Only the real store bought stuff?

It seems prudent to rub a little beeswax on the frames. My bees kinda turn their collective noses up at my plastic foundation until I rub a generous amount of beeswax on them ......I know its not the same, but it may not hurt.
Logged
Moonshae
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 988


Location: Helmetta,NJ


« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 08:25:05 PM »

I'm sure counting on a few of the pulp traps this year...and I'm going to put out my nucs, too. Any stray swarms I can catch will only be a plus for me! I've got lemongrass oil, I hope that is sufficient.
Logged

"The mouth of a perfectly contented man is filled with beer." - Egyptian Proverb, 2200 BC
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 06:51:50 PM »

>I've got lemongrass oil, I hope that is sufficient.

In my experience it works just as well as the commercial lure.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Farmdon
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6

Location: Southern Illinois


« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 11:26:36 PM »

In terms of size, the swarm traps used seem to be anywhere from 5 frame nuc to single deep box.  I have noticed from my tree cut-outs (trees being cut anyway), that many are only the size of a 3-5 frame nuc. I wonder if I mix it up this year and deploy a variety of sizes (5 frame nucs and single deep) ...... what the results might be. My guess is that the entrance opening is an important factor, so that a small swarm might not past a s-t if it has an entrance they can defend. Maybe 5 framers around the wooded areas and full deeps around those pumpkin pollinator bees .... kinda match the house they are coming from.

I bought some cheap lemongrass oil last year. It's strong for a day or two anyway then begins to degrade. I'm still cheap however, so I will use it again this year.

The balance to all this talk is found in the fishing analogy. I have to fish where there are swarms moving. It was a tough year for me this past year because of the drought and late freeze. I am ready to have great results this year. I am also tired of that work thing getting in the way of my beekeeping ...... if I could only overcome that desire to eat, I could stop working and devote myself to taking care of my girls.
Logged
livetrappingbymatt
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49

Location: central new york


« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 04:10:25 PM »

each season a few swarms are caught with commercial lures,in 5 frame nucs that have held bees( bee smell in wood) .Most will use the 5 frame bx but there are aleays some that refuse for these a 8 frame deep may be the answer?
trapping swarms is an interesting side line,some what like fishing ,trapping or even hunting.
traps placed near cutout sites will almost always produce 1 if not more swarms.
bob evans
Logged
Vetch
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 184

Location: NE Florida


« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 06:26:45 PM »

Should we assume that the lemongrass oil trick was  not tested? Only the real store bought stuff?

It seems prudent to rub a little beeswax on the frames. My bees kinda turn their collective noses up at my plastic foundation until I rub a generous amount of beeswax on them ......I know its not the same, but it may not hurt.

According to wikipedia, "Nasonov includes a number of different terpenoids including geraniol, nerolic acid, citral and geranic acid. Bees use these to find the entrance to their colony or hive, and they release them on flowers so other bees know which flowers have nectar. ...  Synthetically produced Nasonov consists of citral and geraniol in a 2:1 ratio."

Lemongrass oil is usually around 80% citral.  Some types of Citronella Grass oils are mostly geraniol and citronellol - I don't know if the citronellol would have a positive or negative effect.  Other good plant sources of geraniol include rose, rosapalma (a species related to lemon grass) and geranium oil (pelargonium). 

How does spritzing up with lemongrass grass oil before inspecting a hive affect the bees??
Logged
ikeepbees
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 33

Location: Mobile, AL


« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 10:22:27 AM »

I'd sure like to hear everyone's experiences with trap placement and its effect on results (Justin?)

How much of a difference does it make? As I've mentioned before, I'm lazy! I want to put out a few traps this year, as I always have extra equipment lying around, but I prefer not to climb if it's not necessary.
Logged

Rob Koss

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2008, 03:30:37 PM »

>How does spritzing up with lemongrass grass oil before inspecting a hive affect the bees??

It makes you VERY interesting to them.  IMO, not a good thing.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
AaronP77
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7


Location: ARizona

Just me and Icky.....a boy and his lizard


WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 11:55:58 PM »

So that being said, as a newer hopefully soon to be bee keeper, ( $ is hard to come by right now) how can it be used to our advantage other then swarm lures?

>How does spritzing up with lemongrass grass oil before inspecting a hive affect the bees??

It makes you VERY interesting to them.  IMO, not a good thing.

Logged

aaron pauling
DayValleyDahlias
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1629


Location: Aptos, California


WWW
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 01:17:11 AM »

I had 3 swarms come to my land last March, no lure, no traps...Just one colony of bees.  Wonder what this year will bring?
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather2_both_cond/language/www/US/CA/Aptos.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Aptos, California Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]

"Become vegetarian/vegan, and no one gets hurt"
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 10:00:24 AM »

So that being said, as a newer hopefully soon to be bee keeper, ( $ is hard to come by right now) how can it be used to our advantage other then swarm lures?

>How does spritzing up with lemongrass grass oil before inspecting a hive affect the bees??

It makes you VERY interesting to them.  IMO, not a good thing.







I've had some get on my fingers, etc... Yes, you may have some investigating you but not a problem, as nasonov is an orienting pheromone. I would be more concerned spritzing with banana extract.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
ArmucheeBee
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 514

Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 11:44:22 AM »

I bought the Mann Lake lures, 2 for $3.99.  That's pretty good compared to $130 if I get two swarms.  I just built 5, 5-frame standard nucs for swarms.  I'm ready to go.  Placement is the only thing I am concerned about.  I did read a paper the other day stating 800 meters from the original hive was the average distance swarms picked for their new hive.  This was a great thread, thanks TwT.
Logged

Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 12:17:00 PM »

Stephen, 800 meters is a long ways. I would have some within 100 yards.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
ArmucheeBee
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 514

Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 01:25:39 PM »

I'll try to find that study and give a link.  I believe it was in California.  That was just the mean distance so some close some more than 2 miles.  I look for it and post it here.
Logged

Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2009, 02:52:49 PM »

I'll try to find that study and give a link.  I believe it was in California.  That was just the mean distance so some close some more than 2 miles.  I look for it and post it here.

Some will fly further yes, a lot of it depends on how well the queen can fly. You definitely want traps within 100 yards of your own hives.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
ArmucheeBee
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 514

Location: Rome, Georgia


« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2009, 03:41:54 PM »

Here's one, very mathematical looks at 250 m.  http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/arl095v1

OK.  Found it.  It was on beesource.  http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/abjjan1992.htm   Here is the para. it was in:

"Swarms tend to move only when weather conditions are favorable; otherwise winds could lead to disorientation and temporary halts part way to the destination. European honey bees also do not normally move very far from their parent colonies. The average distance is about one-half mile (800m), but the scale is logarithmic and some move a much greater distance (Wenner, Meade, and Friesen, in press)."
Logged

Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11689


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2009, 06:30:12 PM »

I would put some 1/4 mile away but many more closer in if you want to catch some of your bees.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.411 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page Today at 08:13:54 AM
anything